Ohio University Homebrew Festival Shut Down

[kaiser423]

Boy you must throw some hellacious knitting parties there!

Is this part of your crew?

They were much older. I was being serious. Was walking over to a friend's house where his grandma was holding I think a quilting party (was wrong about the knitting I think).

The cops were out there all harassing the old ladies about parking and having a gathering that disturbed the neighborhood, took up tons of space, etc. Cops will show up anywhere on the smallest complaint. If you're doing anything with a permit, you really need to know you're rights and what you're getting with the permit.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I'd like to find out where this undercover person spends their days...Anonymous...

Seems to me like the cops were trespassing on private property, but then again schools take federal funding...

 

[weirdboy]

+1,000,000,000
Don't believe me? Check out this Cops episode if you haven't already....look at what "John Law" has to say about our little hobby. "The concotion he was making could be deadly..."

To be fair, they thought he was distilling, not just making beer. To the untrained eye the setups for homebrewing and home distilling look pretty similar. And you CAN be hurt drinking methanol from an improper distillation.

 

[olllllo]

The sad thing is, that had you known, or talked to us, that $2,500 could have bought a large selection of legal micro/craft brews, which obviously you culd have sold, and you could have done a great educational tasting and perhaps as an educational component of the event, even done a homebrewing demonstration, and not have that been dumped, since it wasn't going to be consumed that day.

I really don't think an, "I told ya so", is particularly helpful.

 

[Orfy]

Hindsight hey.

 

[FlashRedGLS18T]

6 months before the kegs get back to you...that part sucks.

 

[SourHopHead]

This. Do this.:rockin:

Can we try this on Nov 5th???

 

[Homercidal]

Well, the selling of homebrew was clearly illegal, although I don't know how you can not know that if you spent 4 months working with the police and the college. Keeping the kegs is a bit much, although they probably want to retain them as evidence in case of any pending litigation.

The worst part, and uncalled for, IMO, was the dumping of the wort and shutting down the demonstration. Well, the demonstration being shut down was likely just to disperse a crowd who might have been a bit rowdy after the confiscation of all that homebrew. Preventing a riot you might say.

Well, better luck next time! Could have been worse. Then again, they could have just shut down the event and sent everyone home with their beer IF they felt like it.

 

[EuBrew]

For those of you who don't know the legend that is the Ohio University party reputation I think this is the underlying issue. Someone said give the Home Brew club enough rope to hang themselves, it's more like give the POPO an inch and they'll take a mile. Yes it was "illegal" and I'd bet if this happened somewhere other than OU the cops would just have shut the operation down without confiscating the kegs.

 

[Revvy]

To be fair, they thought he was distilling, not just making beer. To the untrained eye the setups for homebrewing and home distilling look pretty similar. And you CAN be hurt drinking methanol from an improper distillation.

But that's the point I was trying to make, these were cops, and since to their "untrained eye" they couldn't distinguish between brewing and distilling, they still came at it like it from a law enforcement perspective that it was wrong, and dangerous.

I know a few brewers who have had the popo pull up and eye their copper coil chillers with suspicion. One of the guys I know who has had an issue happened to be a police dispatcher, and had to school his own officers on the difference, when they showed up on his door.

That's the point, there is so much ignorance/fear/suspicion about this hobby thart we has brewers have to contend with and try to educate others.

That's why things like the American Homebrew Societie's Teach a Friend to Homebrew Day is an important community event to educate and introduce people to the hobby, including demystifying and clearing up misconceptions about homebrewing. That's why I encourage brewers to get involved and make it a big deal, but NOT just in their back yard with a couple friends but to work their homebrewshop, or local club, or communtiy organization to have it in a public space with lots of walk traffic and to promote it heavily.

One of the places I do it at is at Cap N Cork, which is a large homebrew shop in Metro Detroit, we usually get 20-30 people brewing and hundreds of people coming through asking questions and tasting beer (since there's no selling it is legal.)

Here's the HBT Michigan Masher's Tent from Last year.

The last 4 of us who were (relatively sober enough) at the end of the event, and still there to have our picture taken.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

The authorities clearly state that the organisers made an honest attempt to get everything right. It sounds to me like there was a miscommunication when applying for the permit. Some of those rubber stampers just want to get the job done, often without asking the right questions and giving a little guidance to the vendors. These permits and knowing their restrictions is a part of their job! They should do better IMO in actually ensuring that they are selling the right permits for the intended purpose instead of just making sure the forms are filled out.

 

[forcera]

Remember homebrewing wasn't re-legalized after the Volstead act was repealed in 1933, it wasn't legalized until 1978, and it took a lot of work in those 45 years to get it to happen....and despite it's federal legalization, it is STILL on a State by State basis.

Wasn't it legalized in Utah JUST this very year?

I can speak to that. It is completely illegal in Alabama.

 

[mitch171]

Well the good that will come out of this is nicly aged beer...

I personally blame distributors for a lot of the head ache. I am sure if tax was the real problem you could take the steps to collect and send in tax. It is getting the distributors out of the pockets of the legislation that is the tricky part.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I personally blame distributors for a lot of the head ache. I am sure if tax was the real problem you could take the steps to collect and send in tax. It is getting the distributors out of the pockets of the legislation that is the tricky part.

Oh buggar!! I meant to say something along those lines too!!

 

[bb239605]

Laughing Gnome nailed it. The main problem was a lack of communication. We were working directly with the Ohio University Police Department and with the Ohio University Administrators. Both of which told us we would be ok with just the F permit. That being the case I decided not to question it too much.

I had a sinking suspicion something might be wrong but i figured the OIC would have bigger fish to fry than a small time homebrew event.

The positive thing out of this no one person is too blame so the state wont know who to come down on. Worse comes to worse they dismantle our brew club.

Also they did question me about the equipment we had to show people, in particular the copper IC. I didnt even make the connection at the time that they probably thought it was distilling equipment, I just thought they were complete idiots and/or jackasses.

 

[bubbachunk]

The sad thing is, that had you known, or talked to us, that $2,500 could have bought a large selection of legal micro/craft brews, which obviously you culd have sold, and you could have done a great educational tasting and perhaps as an educational component of the event, even done a homebrewing demonstration, and not have that been dumped, since it wasn't going to be consumed that day.

The school would not fund us buying beer for any event, that has to come from our own pockets one way or the other.

 

[Homercidal]

I highly doubt they could disband the brew club. If guys want to get together and make beer, or talk about making beer, or talk about drinking beer, they are free to do so. The School cannot stop you.

They might limit where you would be allowed to do certain things, but it should be possible to work around that. What a thrill to have to do it all "on the downlow!" as the kids say today.

 

[jgln]

I don't think so. You can call it a donation- but if someone gives you $1 for a cup of beer, it's a sale. A donation is just that- giving money for nothing in return. A sale is when you pay or barter a valued amount for goods or services. In some states, though, it's not legal to transport homebrew or even to give it away. I know that some states allow you to gift a 6-pack per year. I have no idea about Ohio law in gifting homebrew, but if money changes hands for a "sample", it's a sale.

sorry that happened- that sucks. Having a responsible homebrew event is a great idea, and helps to give a more positive image to homebrewers. Some people still think of homebrewers as party animals trying to make cheap hooch, and I think having an event showing that it's a craft, and a fun hobby, is a great idea. I wish it would have turned out better for you.

Could you imagine the amount of "donating" would be going on to avoid sales tax and all the other regulations regarding sales??

 

[cubbies]

The authorities clearly state that the organisers made an honest attempt to get everything right. It sounds to me like there was a miscommunication when applying for the permit. Some of those rubber stampers just want to get the job done, often without asking the right questions and giving a little guidance to the vendors. These permits and knowing their restrictions is a part of their job! They should do better IMO in actually ensuring that they are selling the right permits for the intended purpose instead of just making sure the forms are filled out.

This is what I was going to say. They obviously applied for and were granted a permit. I am sure at some point, someone must have been made aware why they were needing said permit. At that point, that someone should have made them aware they were not going to be able to sell homebrew with that permit. It's a shame that an event like this got shut down because of such a lapse.

On top of that, I put most of the fault on the officers. Clearly they knew in advance that this event was taking place. At the very least they knew there was a possibility that homebrew was going to be sold and that the permit they applied for wasnt going to cover it, yet instead of try and actually PREVENT it, they went in with undercover officers and shut it down after the fact. Very unethical move IMO.

 

[Stratotankard]

People who wonder why there is often a negative opinion of police in this country need only look at this example. How many man hours were wasted, when a simple phone call to the organizers would have rectified the situation BEFORE any laws were broken?

I understand that the whole selling homebrew thing is a no-no, but the club honestly believed or had reason to believe that they had complied with the proper licensing procedures for the event. Given that the OIC knew the facts before they went in undercover, why then not save everybody's time and money and pick up the phone. Some people truly believe there is no such thing a bad publicity and anything that brings attention to the difficult job these cops are doing might bring them more funding. The job would have been much less difficult if this had been fixed before it was an issue.

Terje

 

[beretta]

Sorry to "bump" this tread, but I live in south east Ohio fairly close to Ohio Univeristy. The entire region is riddled with marijuana farms and moonshine stills (Ah, yes, it IS Appalachia!). At one time, I also had little knowledge of how/what beer was, and how it differed from whiskey, so I can see the police over-reacting by conficating the kegs and brewing equipment. However, just as the club should have guessed that selling homebrew was going to be a problem, the cops should have done there homework too! It was ignorance all around. Both the State, the club, and the school should swallow their pride, and let this mishandled mess wash.... But no...the State got their "show".

It's important to educate people (even the snake-handling sort) on what our hobbie is about, so this sort of thing doesn't happen. I personally know people who won't even try my homebrew for the fear of going blind, or getting some gastro-intestinal desease. And, yes, it hurts my feelings!

And don't get me started on the State of Ohio beer distributing/sell/manufacturing laws.... it's a very mobby / state controlled, lawyery mess, most likely used to protect BMC distributors from competition.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now...

 

[olllllo]

Charlie Papazian has picked this up.

http://bit.ly/7JDbc

 

[bigin31]

Sorry to hear that happened. Im not sure about Ohio law but TX requires a "Brewer's Permit" which allows you to brew your own. Then in order to sell you have to have a "Distribution Permit" which allows you to sell. Just in case you want to think about organizing again check into the Brewer's permit and you should be within the law. In TX they make you ship a sample off to a lab to be tested and of course you have to follow FDA rules for labeling and nutritional info.

 

[mkorpal]

If you have any decent microbreweries around, you should talk to them and see if they would allow you to brew on a pilot system or something. Then you can charge all you want. Thats what our brewing science class at Colorado State does.

 

[claphamsa]

since its about 3 weeks since this travesty I can say,..... shoulda gone to Miami

 

[EricCSU]

People who wonder why there is often a negative opinion of police in this country need only look at this example. How many man hours were wasted, when a simple phone call to the organizers would have rectified the situation BEFORE any laws were broken?

I understand that the whole selling homebrew thing is a no-no, but the club honestly believed or had reason to believe that they had complied with the proper licensing procedures for the event. Given that the OIC knew the facts before they went in undercover, why then not save everybody's time and money and pick up the phone. Some people truly believe there is no such thing a bad publicity and anything that brings attention to the difficult job these cops are doing might bring them more funding. The job would have been much less difficult if this had been fixed before it was an issue.

Terje

I work with cops frequently as part of my job. Yes, it does seem reasonable and practical for them to call the club to clarify the permit/sales situation. It would also help to promote an image of education, not prosecution. However, cops like to make a splash. They want to make an example out of someone. Even if this all gets cleared up later, it doesn't matter. Everyone already read the article about "homebrewing is bad" and their point (however misguided) is made.

Eric