I'm sure with practice you could easily hit 74%, but until then just figure your recipe for the efficiency you actually get, minus a few percent. Grain is fairly cheap, so for a few extra bucks you get piece of mind and a more accurate representation of the recipe. Adding sugar, DME or LME after the fact will work, but will alter the flavor of the batch. "Wasting" 2 or 3 dollars worth of grain is well worth ensuring you hit your target OG. Even after addressing my own efficiency issues, I still mash a few extra pounds when I brew. I find it allows me to stop the sparge sooner saving time. Plus once in a while I have an "efficiency hiccup", and need the extra slack...
OG, ABV, and such
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Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
First I'd say mash at the correct temp and get the grain milled finer. I'd bet money that's all you need to do. Then if that doesn't help you can up your grain bills...
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I've done the blender, food processor, coffee grinder. It will work, but it's best for BIAB. The grain gets milled so fine it will clog your lautering system. If you have a grain bag and a beverage cooler type mash tun you can line the tun with the bag and try lautering like normal. Otherwise just pull the bag and dunk sparge it in a pot.
I've also done the rolling pin thing. It will also work, but you better be ready for a good workout!
I finally got a Corona mill about a year ago. I love the thing! It was $25 and it woks great! I get as much as 83% efficiency at my best.
If none of this sounds like a good option, then try asking the LHBS to mill tighter or run it twice.
I've also done the rolling pin thing. It will also work, but you better be ready for a good workout!
I finally got a Corona mill about a year ago. I love the thing! It was $25 and it woks great! I get as much as 83% efficiency at my best.
If none of this sounds like a good option, then try asking the LHBS to mill tighter or run it twice.
I feel ya man. I've been using an old mini food processor. That thing is so old,it oughta be bronzed & in a display case. Tried pulsing for different numbers of seconds,but still got a lot of protien haze come fridge time. The fine crush for BIAB,I'm beginning to think,is a bit of an exageration. It seems to make haze at fridge time heavier. I started using Fivestar super moss as of my latest batch,my Moari IPA with fine processor crush. We'll se how that looks in a month,as it'll be dry hopped Sunday if it's done fermenting. My PM beliner Weisse kit is due to be in today. My Barley Crusher is sitting here waiting. I'll try the factory .039" setting this first go around. Gotta charge up the drill for that,as they say it gives a more even crush. I'm hoping between the better crush,getting a more intense initial boil,& the super moss will get my beers clear again.
It was interesting that the dark hybrid lager I brewed using a smaller mash & a cooper's heritage lager can came out clear & stayed that way through fridge time. Maybe PM's of 1/3 or less of the total fermentables stays clear easier? Or maybe it's the Cooper's can? Can't make up my mind on that one?...
It was interesting that the dark hybrid lager I brewed using a smaller mash & a cooper's heritage lager can came out clear & stayed that way through fridge time. Maybe PM's of 1/3 or less of the total fermentables stays clear easier? Or maybe it's the Cooper's can? Can't make up my mind on that one?...
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I agree that temperature and crush are the biggest factors, but I think some of you guys are a bit confused about the crush part. The idea is to CRACK the grain, not mill it into flour. By splitting the husk without completely grinding it up you allow it to act as a filter for the converted sugars to be easily extracted. Gains in efficiency by increased milling only go so far. As long as it's tight enough not to allow whole uncrushed grains through you're good.
Mash pH is another big factor in efficiency. It is influenced by the grain bill itself, water chemistry, and temperature. You can estimate it using various formulas and spreadsheet programs, or measure it with strips or a meter. So....
-1st get ur temp right, 146 to 158 depending on desired fermentability.
-2nd examine your CRUSH closely. It's called a "crush" for a reason, there shouldn't be any whole grains, but not too much fine powdery stuff either. Most LHBSS and online retailers these days give a pretty good crush.
-3rd and most complicated, get to know your water profile and its effect on mash pH. Get a water report or have your source water tested. Wardlabs.com makes it easy and affordable to know for sure what your water contains. With some inexpensive "salts" (powdered minerals) you can custom make the perfect water for every recipe. This will not only increase efficiency, but make your beer taste better too!!
Mash pH is another big factor in efficiency. It is influenced by the grain bill itself, water chemistry, and temperature. You can estimate it using various formulas and spreadsheet programs, or measure it with strips or a meter. So....
-1st get ur temp right, 146 to 158 depending on desired fermentability.
-2nd examine your CRUSH closely. It's called a "crush" for a reason, there shouldn't be any whole grains, but not too much fine powdery stuff either. Most LHBSS and online retailers these days give a pretty good crush.
-3rd and most complicated, get to know your water profile and its effect on mash pH. Get a water report or have your source water tested. Wardlabs.com makes it easy and affordable to know for sure what your water contains. With some inexpensive "salts" (powdered minerals) you can custom make the perfect water for every recipe. This will not only increase efficiency, but make your beer taste better too!!
As far as crush is concerned,I for one didn't have much control over it till my barley crusher came in. Now I can get a crush without a lot of the floury part. But the crush I keep getting from midwest has a lot of what looks like whole grains left in it. I was thinking of running it through the barley crusher one more time before mashing. Besides being a Berliner Weisse,I'm not sure to use super moss in the batch?
I typically mash at 152,the temp going up 1 degree to 153F over the 1 hour mash. So I'm good there. And I've been using local spring water to brew with. Gives a good balance of malt & hop flavors. The yeasties seem to do a good job in it too.
I typically mash at 152,the temp going up 1 degree to 153F over the 1 hour mash. So I'm good there. And I've been using local spring water to brew with. Gives a good balance of malt & hop flavors. The yeasties seem to do a good job in it too.
It's ok, but if you don't know the water to begin with then you still don't know what you end up with!
Mash pH could be a part of the reason for poor efficiency also. If you can get a water profile from your water supplier, or send a sample to Ward Lab to get the information (it costs $16.50 for the info you need), that would help you know what your water is to start with and then how to fix it if it's a problem.
Mozart
Well-Known Member
For $16.50, if all we're doing is measuring pH, I'd head to the local pet store instead. There are any number of pH test strips and liquid test kits that are made for the aquarium hobby. The liquid kits are more accurate than the strips, and you can test whenever you like, and the liquid kits have, I think, enough reagent to perform hundreds of pH tests. Additionally, while a water report is a good idea, pH in tap water can fluctuate in many municipalities over time.
One bit of advice, when measuring the pH of your tap water as a starting frame of reference for your water chemistry, I recommend letting it sit in an open wide-mouthed vessel (an ordinary drinking cup is fine) for a day or two, or boiling it for 15-20 minutes before testing. The reason is to allow the chlorine in the water to gas off, as chlorine alters pH. Since heating water encourages the chlorine to gas off, the heated water we mash or brew with will ultimately wind up with a pH closer to the tap water after it has gassed off than before.
I may not know much about brewing beer yet, as I'm new to the hobby, but having an aquarium has taught me a little bit about water chemistry.
Cheers!
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
It's not just about pH. Since water profiles have different minerals a person might have water with a lot of sodium, which isn't really good for you or for the flavor of your beer. Some minerals enhance bitterness, while other enhance malt. For this reason it's good to know what's in your water and what the pH is.
As far as chlorine... you shouldn't be using water with chlorine in the first place. If you have to "gas off" to get a proper pH reading from your brewing water, then you need to treat your water to remove the chlorine before you use it to brew with.
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
Also the pH of the tap water means nothing, it is the pH of the mash that counts which is mostly affected by the alkalinity/buffering capacity of the water and the particular grainbill. I have tap water with a very high pH but extremely low alkalinity so it is still good for brewing.
And I have high bicarbonate but not a bad pH- but my water has far too much alkalinity for most beers.
You want to know the calcium, sodium, magnesium, choride, sulfate, bicarbonate, and carbonate hardness. If there is chlorine in the form of chloramines, that must be removed as it doesn't boil off. It easiest to remove that with campden tablets (potassium metabisulfite).
+1 to the comments on water.
The pH is influenced by many factors so checking it with aquarium strips would be a waste of time and provide you with no useful info. To estimate mash pH you need to know the full water profile. Calcium, bicarbonate, magnesium and other minerals are what influence the pH along with your mash temperature and grain bill. Darker grains tend to lower the pH, pale ones less so. This is actually one of the main reasons the beer styles of the world developed. Certain regions' water was poorly suited to brew certain styles of beer, so they stuck to what worked. Stouts in Ireland, pales in England, etc. With a little know how and some of the key minerals in hand, you can taylor your water to the beer you are brewing. But you have to know your starting point. No one can tell you what to add or how much until you know what's in the water you are using...
The pH is influenced by many factors so checking it with aquarium strips would be a waste of time and provide you with no useful info. To estimate mash pH you need to know the full water profile. Calcium, bicarbonate, magnesium and other minerals are what influence the pH along with your mash temperature and grain bill. Darker grains tend to lower the pH, pale ones less so. This is actually one of the main reasons the beer styles of the world developed. Certain regions' water was poorly suited to brew certain styles of beer, so they stuck to what worked. Stouts in Ireland, pales in England, etc. With a little know how and some of the key minerals in hand, you can taylor your water to the beer you are brewing. But you have to know your starting point. No one can tell you what to add or how much until you know what's in the water you are using...
BlindFaith
Well-Known Member
I have had similar issues with my OG and efficiency. I started with investigating my thermometer and turned out it was off by a good bit. That still didn't solve my issues, so then I had my grain double crushed and still had efficiency problems. I have made up for it by adding proper amounts of the correct DME at flameout and my beer has been fine, but I want proper efficiency. So, today I am using baseline RO water with the proper additions for my APA and hoping to get my mash right. I do not have any ph strips, but I will know if my water was indeed a problem pre-boil when I take a refractometer reading. I feel your pain.
