OG 1.050, still only 1.022 after 2nd yeast pitch, ideas?

[Sandkicker]

Need some troubleshooting help, or help deciding whether there's any chance it's just done fermenting. I'd appreciate any observations, recommendations, ideas

This is my 12th brew, so not an expert, but not a total noob. However, this was the first i'd done in a year or so, but have never had this problem before.

The details:

Extract brew (5 lbs liquid, 2 lbs dry), started about a month ago, an amber ale, but we added a pinch of coriander seed (1/16 - 1/8 teaspoon) and 3-4 partially ground cardamom pod to the grains hoping for some christmas flavor (now realize that steeping early with the spices probably results in little end-flavor, but it is what it is), first pitch was WYEAST

Day 0: OG 1.050

Week 1: SG 1.022

Week 2: SG 1.022

Wasn't closely monitoring temp, but guessing it might've gotten too cold (winter here in UT), moved closer to a heat vent, thermometer sitting on top of bucket now wavering between 70-74 between heat cycles. No direct heat, but am assuming closer to the heat vent results in more temp variance than where it was placed before

Week 3: SG 1.022

Still seems too high, but was looking pretty clear, tried a taste, didn't taste sweet, but also not as delicious as I'd expected (guessing maybe a poor spice judgment? tasted like an ok beer tho, although i dont' recall typicall tasting at this point in the past)

I got a recommendation to try a dry yeast pitch to kick it back into gear. Went with the US-05, pitched directly into the bucket (six days ago), gave it a couple light stirs, closed it back up. Tested last night

Week 4: SG 1.022 still, no change

Planning to give it another week or so to see if it moves. Not giving up yet, but planning to get another brew going to ease my patience.

I fully expected this brew to get down to near 1.010, maybe 1.015 tops on the HIGH end. I've done some imperial stouts, strong belgians, and stronger malty ales before, never with such strange behavior as this one.

Is there any chance this brew is just done fermenting?

Any chance the coriander/cardamom additions somehow threw off the fermentation process?

Any ideas? thoughts?

I appreciate any feedback or thoughts, thanks.

 

[Ksosh]

I'd say you've done everything you could, pitched new yeast, stirred it up a bit. I say bottle it and put the bottles in a place where if they explode they'll be contained (both glass and water wise) for a couple weeks.

 

[Sandkicker]

Ksosh, thanks, I appreciate the reply

Part of me has been eager to bottle to get some tasty beer ready, but my more prominent feelings have been the potential exploding bottle fear and the hopes for some miracle cure to help me lose another 0.010.

Right now i'm thinking I'll probably give it a week to at least ensure the 2nd pitch of yeast settles, and bottle if no movement.

Anyone else care to chime in on whether it's maybe just done fermenting?

Appreciate any info or stories of brews with similar gravity movement and how it turned out.

 

[waldoar15]

It might be too late for amylase, don't know.

 

[Dave258]

My Double Chocolate Stout would not go down below 1.022. It was in primary for almost 7 weeks. I think poor aeration was to blame... It has been in bottles for a week, no explosions yet.
I now bought a Mix-Stir stick that attaches to a drill from Northern Brewer, and use liquid yeast with a starter.
I am going to check my IPA tonight, it has been in Primary for 3 weeks. Hopefully it will finish were it should. I'd like to cold crash it and keg it Sunday...

Good Luck!

 

[Sandkicker]

My Double Chocolate Stout would not go down below 1.022. It was in primary for almost 7 weeks. I think poor aeration was to blame... It has been in bottles for a week, no explosions yet.

Dave258, what was your OG on that stout? I'm assuming it was probably a bit higher than my meager 1.050?

I don't have my journal in front of me, but I think i've only had one or two others that ended near my current 1.022, but both started with an OG significantly higher (1.07+) which would leave me much less concerned.

 

[Sandkicker]

It might be too late for amylase, don't know.

I don't know anything about amylase, will have to dig into that

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

I would say that what Dave said about his beer being under aerated is probably the best bet on your problem. And its really to late now. As for the 2 yeast if you just dumped a dry pack into a 2-3 week old beer I think the results will be minimal if any. I would think that the beer it too high in alcohol for the yeast to grow but I may be wrong.

You really did all you could. I would either just bottle it and put it in a bin or something incase they blow or make a big yeast starter that is well aerated and dump that in for a few more days and keep the temp up a bit 70-72.

I myself would be just too impatient for that and bottle it and hope for the best.

 

[Dave258]

Dave258, what was your OG on that stout? I'm assuming it was probably a bit higher than my meager 1.050?

It was only 1.058... The target FG was 1.012.
I had three brews in a row that finished at 1.022, 1.018 and 1.018.
All three were extract brews, I had no idea what happened.
The black ale and the Nut Brown finished at 1.018. I kegged those, and you can taste the difference in them... Much sweeter. Those were the first two brews that I kegged, so I was very impatient. They were in primary for 3 weeks.
Unfortunately, I don't think I can finish the black ale... It is way tooooo sweet, and ends up not tasting good at all.
I hope that bottle conditioning the chocolate stout will help the taste.
Call me crazy, but I liked my bottled beers better then my first 2 kegged beers. Hopefully it is just inexperience in kegging...

 

[Doc Robinson]

Planning to give it another week or so to see if it moves. Not giving up yet, but planning to get another brew going to ease my patience.

Don't waste your time...it isn't going to move. What is going on here? 56% attenuation on a 1.050 with a Wyeast pack? Different strains have different attenuations and I don't recall you mentioning which one you used. I would say either temperature (too low), zero oxygenation, or bad yeast are to blame. I agree with an earlier poster that there was most likely enough alcohol to inhibit the second addition.

Just because the pack puffs up doesn't mean it is totally good. Always make a starter and calculate proper pitching rates.

 

[Sandkicker]

Good point, I never really paid any attention to yeast pitching rates. A quick visit to the mrmalty site mentions:

"A Wyeast Activator pack (the really big ones) and the pitchable tubes have an average of 100 billion cells of 100% viable yeast. ... You would need 2 of the large packs if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts."

I used only one of the WYeast packs, but its sounding like maybe I should've used two. I typically just ask the local brew supply shop what yeast they recommend for the ingredients i'm pickin up and go with it. Sounds like i need to actually do a little more learning on the yeast front.

I have typically used WhiteLabs in the past, this was my first foray into the WYEAST. But after starting this brew up with two of my friends helping/watching, each bought new kits to start brewing, helped each brew up their first, both using WYEAST and both got more expected results and bottled, was just surprised that mine lagged so bad. So not all is lost, I'll be helping them drink theirs.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate the thoughts.

Guess I'll wait for it to settle a little more and just bottle it up. I'll try to remember to revisit this post in a few weeks with the results for anyone that may stumble on this post in the future.

Notes to self: pay closer attention to yeast pitching, and ensure crazy proper aeration

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Yea when I started brewing my local shop insisted on one pack of yeast is enough and the recipes we were building were big Belgians. And don’t even get me started on starters! I got real sick of overly sweet beers and now everything gets a big ass starter or if I just have no time multiple smack packs. I would get a yeast starter kit and incorporate it into your process. I myself like building the starters during the week for a upcoming weekend brew.

 

[michael.berta]

proper pitching rates and a temp controlled ferment should help.

 

[Shooter]

All I can say is, it sounds like you've got the right attitude about correcting problems. Good luck on any future brews!

 

[Ksosh]

potential exploding bottle fear

Putting the bottles in a large tupperware bin will alleviate any fears you might have. If they burst, they burst, if not, you'll have a sweet beer (pun intended)

 

[Bearcat Brewmeister]

I don't buy the alcohol level being too high to restart a stuck fermentation. My current batch with 1.083 SG got stuck at 1.030, so my alcohol level was higher. I pitched a smack pack and a day later it started back up. That said, OP's original attempts did not work, although we don't know what the original yeast was. It is possible the original yeast may have been a high flocculation variety and settled out. I use Scottish Ale yeast a lot and it tends to settle out before it is done. When that happens, I first try to shake the fermenter a bit to rouse the yeast. If you leave the airlock on, you have no worries about oxygenating since the oxygen would have been pushed out by CO2 production long ago. After that does not work, I repitch. In your case since you have repitched once, I would repitch a starter at high krausen, making sure the starter does not get too oxygenated (no stir plate). I would make a 1L starter using a high attenuating, low flocculating yeast, such as Wyeast 1028 (US-05 was a good choice as well).

Good luck,
BB