OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone

[smagee]

Just did it last night, so I figured it might change a bit as fermentation progresses. I'm just concerned because the wort us typically at least a little sweet prior to pitching; this one tasted like a green batch freshly finished.

 

[smagee]

Well, the second runnings have come down around 1.012 (and will likely continue to drop a bit longer), and taste absolutely awful. It's fairly evident to me at this point that the hop compounds will indeed continue to bitter as the boil progresses regardless of whether the hops themselves are still present.

Ah well, I'll have to write this one off to experience and consider it an extremely large yeast starter. I needed to cultivate some more 3711 anyway.

 

[1Mainebrew]

Well, the second runnings have come down around 1.012 (and will likely continue to drop a bit longer), and taste absolutely awful. It's fairly evident to me at this point that the hop compounds will indeed continue to bitter as the boil progresses regardless of whether the hops themselves are still present.

Ah well, I'll have to write this one off to experience and consider it an extremely large yeast starter. I needed to cultivate some more 3711 anyway.

Let it ride for a few months before you cast judgement. Those flavors will mellow out with time.

 

[kshuler]

Strange- my second running batch tastes great. Did you treat your water for the second runnings? If the pH is too high it will extract a bunch of tannins from the husks. My second runnings batch is UNDER hopped, not bitter enough.

 

[smagee]

I didn't adjust water at all for either batch; I've never had a problem with it before, so I decided not to tweak with things this time either. The second runnings had a multitude of problems, the extended boil being only one of them. I forgot to add a bit more grain that I'd intended, I think the second "mash" (or sparge, but it was for ~75 minutes) was a bit too warm, although not to the point that tannins should've been extracted. Another contributor to my downfall was probably my ambitious choice of 3711 to ferment it, as that yeast will ferment the bucket itself, given enough time.

In contrast to your experience, I rinsed the kettle of old hops and added completely new ones for the second batch, so that would be why mine didn't end up under. Definitely not looking good for the time being though; we'll see how things progress.

 

[lewybrewing]

Thoughts on Bottling this beer? Any one bottle them yet? I am at over 3 months on the oak and ready to bottle. I had them in 2ndary for 3 months before that. I am afraid that the beer will not carb correctly if I just add the priming sugar.

Thoughts?

 

[Native302]

I'll be bottling mine on 6 oct after 6 weeks on med toast oak spirals. Not gonna re yeast

 

[smagee]

Thoughts on Bottling this beer? Any one bottle them yet? I am at over 3 months on the oak and ready to bottle. I had them in 2ndary for 3 months before that. I am afraid that the beer will not carb correctly if I just add the priming sugar.

Thoughts?

I'd say it depends on how long you expect to let them bottle-condition. With the little amount of active yeast you probably have going right now, it'll take a long time to carb up, probably at least several months, and it'd be best to give it around 6 or so just to be safe.

I might add half a packet of yeast or so to the bottling bucket just to ensure you get enough active cells going that you get carbonation within a few months. I assume you weren't planning on popping it inside of 3 or so anyway .

 

[smagee]

By the sheerest coincidence, I was intending to post an update tonight anyway (hence the double post), as I just racked my batch to secondary. Ended up with ~6 gallons *after* trub loss at OG 1.112, which has come down to 1.022 (and actually may continue to drop). Denny's yeast really chewed through this thing, although it certainly took longer than it usually does.

Color is dark brown in the siphon, inky black in the glass, with a mocha head so far. Considering it's getting mild head retention even though it isn't really carbed up yet bodes well for its future. Initial flavors are heavy roast coffee, which I suspect will fade with time, allowing some more chocolate to come out. The "raisiny" flavor from Special B is mild, but definitely present. I'm not a huge fan of that aspect of a lot of big RISes, but this one is balanced well by the coffee. Definitely looking forward to seeing how the oak+bourbon impacts it, as the vanilla from the infused bourbon should complement both the oak and the coffee nicely. So far, so good!

 

[kshuler]

Glad it turned out well. I thought it was absolutely delicious before carbing, and the sample I took still had a bit of yeast in it. Mine has been in the keg for about 2 weeks now, and I will not take a sample anytime soon. I have one problem, however. I do not own a stout faucet nor a nitrogen or beer gas tank. How much a I going to lose by just carbing it with pure CO2 and just using my normal faucet? Is it worth it to spend a few hundred dollars for a whole stout setup, or will it be OK just on CO2? I only have a single CO2 regulator, so I can't alter the pressure between one keg and another-- everything is carbed at about 2.4 volumes. SHould I turn it down for this beer?

 

[smagee]

I'd carb just as you would normally; I'm a huge fan of nitro stouts, but I'm not going to invest in getting all the equipment together until I've proven to myself that I can consistently produce beers that I feel would be enhanced by the entire setup. Stouts with CO2 can be wonderful as well, so unless you have the facilities already, I'd just go with that. I'll actually be bottle-conditioning (due in part to the sheer amount of beer I ended up with) and figure that, given enough time, they'll be terrific in their own right.

2.4 vols should be fine for a stout, so I wouldn't tweak anything, especially if you have something else on tap at the same time. I'll probably undercarb slightly on mine just because the extended time in the bottle can lead to increased risk of long-term bombs, which would be doubly unpleasant with a beer this dark.

 

[lewybrewing]

As for the Nitro idea, personally I would not do it with this beer. All the time, effort and money evolved in getting this beer to taste the way it is would be lost in a Nitro set-up.

My thoughts on a nitro are to hide or mask some off flavors in beer. Unless you do a true to style Dry stout or Guinness clone. I've had some Reds, IPA's and other beers on Nitro, even some at my own house and they just loose some of the personality that this beer took time and resources to show.

For my KTG I am going to bottle it this weekend. Cross my fingers that I can get some more yeast activity to pressure the bottle and enjoy them in about a year.

 

[Oldsock]

Bottled mine yesterday, tasted great. Reyeasted with a gram of rehydrated wine yeast to ensure carbonation. It dropped a few points in the keg, down to ~1.020. I also took 1 gallon and put it onto cocoa powder, cinnamon, vanilla, and a couple dried chiles.

 

[Native302]

Anyones KTG take a long time to carb? Mine have been bottled for a month and zero carb. There was a slight hiss when opening the bottle though.

 

[smagee]

With the size of this beer, I'd expect several months required for natural carbing. Beers in this gravity range will usually take longer than your typical batch.

 

[Oldsock]

Anyones KTG take a long time to carb? Mine have been bottled for a month and zero carb. There was a slight hiss when opening the bottle though.

Mine carbed in a couple weeks, but I pitched fresh yeast. I've had a few big beers fail to carbonate, so I started adding fresh yeast.

 

[1Mainebrew]

I just bought my ingredients to brew this up again! Can't wait! I'm going to Partigyle up a black lager with the small beer.

 

[gingerdawg]

I just bought my ingredients to brew this up again! Can't wait! I'm going to Partigyle up a black lager with the small beer.

I am thinking of doing the same thing. How big of a batch will you do for the partigyle? 1/2 the size of the KTG batch?

 

[JonM]

Man, this thread is making me antsy! I brewed this in May, bottled at the end of September, with some fresh yeast to help carb, and plan to not touch it until Christmas (with maybe a little sample on my birthday a week before Christmas). Can't wait!

 

[RitsiGators]

Does anybody have any tasting notes of thier clone attempts? I am planning to make a RIS and am leaning towards attempting this one...

 

[ChickenHops]

Man, this thread is making me antsy! I brewed this in May, bottled at the end of September, with some fresh yeast to help carb, and plan to not touch it until Christmas (with maybe a little sample on my birthday a week before Christmas). Can't wait!

I know what you mean about being antsy. I brewed a RIS in May, too, intending not to open until Christmas. So far so good. I try not to think about it, but sometimes it's difficult. I've got mine in a corny behind a lot of other stuff. Out of site is out of mind, until I read threads like this.

The RIS was the most complicated beer I've made to date. I didn't think a big beer would be a big deal to make, but it was. My recipe has a lot in common with the KTG recipe, although the grain bill isn't quite as extensive.

I ended up having to buy a new rectangular cooler for mashing. The cooler was the same outside dimensions as one I already had, but it had thinner walls and therefore held more. The mash was still nearly overflowing. After fermenation was complete I oaked it for 5 days using 4 oz medium French cubes.

It helps to have good notes. Waiting months rather than weeks creates some memory challenges. Even on PAs where the turn around time is shorter I always wish that I'd taken more brewing notes.

I almost didn't make it, but I'm glad I did. Hard to think about December when it's heating up on Memorial Day. I'm sure once we get to December I'll feel like a kid hoping for a Red Ryder. It's definately going to be an annual event going forward.

Here's what it looked like in the carboy

 

[1Mainebrew]

I am thinking of doing the same thing. How big of a batch will you do for the partigyle? 1/2 the size of the KTG batch?

No both 5 gallons, just have DME at the ready in case of a low OG.

Figuring 50% efficiency for Kate and 35% for the Partigyle.

 

[1Mainebrew]

Does anybody have any tasting notes of thier clone attempts? I am planning to make a RIS and am leaning towards attempting this one...

Chocolate, coffee and strawberry (from the port), caramel, oak and pure deliciousness. There were so many flavors that its almost indescribable the way they all meld together. It's my wife's and my favorite beer. Period. You should totally try this one and be patient enough to let it come into its own. It's truly amazing!

 

[aarondl]

I have a few questions, as I'd like to try this next week.

Should it condition in the secondary, or in bottles?

When getting the wort, they said to take 1/3 for the boil. Is there anything to know about this, or do I just get the first 6.5 gallons?

Thanks!!!

 

[aarondl]

Another couple of questions: it seems that some people had huge fermentations, has that been a frequent issue? Also, how long should the oak be in it?

 

[1Mainebrew]

Yes this beer should condition in secondary with port soaked oak cubes for a month or more after its sat in secondary for a few months. Bulk aging is the way to go for this beer.

I did my secondary in a keg. That is a great option if available.

As far as fermentation goes, just get a blowoff tube and watch in amazement!

 

[smagee]

Another couple of questions: it seems that some people had huge fermentations, has that been a frequent issue? Also, how long should the oak be in it?

Unless you're underpitching or keeping it chilled during fermentation, this is virtually guaranteed to give you a massive fermentation (as with most any "large" beer). I'd recommend using a larger-than-normal fermenter or splitting the batch between two buckets to ensure you don't lose much beer due to blowoff. And absolutely use a blowoff!

 

[user 21663]

When soaking the oak in a port ( I have spirals ), is there any "right" way to do it? I've seen people soaking in tupperware covered and uncovered, some boil the oak first, some don't...

I'm hoping to get on this within the next couple weeks and figure I should get the oak soaking. It will probably be soaking for about a month before it needs to go in the keg.

Thanks.

 

[JonM]

Unless you're underpitching or keeping it chilled during fermentation, this is virtually guaranteed to give you a massive fermentation (as with most any "large" beer). I'd recommend using a larger-than-normal fermenter or splitting the batch between two buckets to ensure you don't lose much beer due to blowoff. And absolutely use a blowoff!

Mine went berserk too - I did a three gal batch in a five gal BB, and it was one of the most vigorous I've ever had. (I did it like that so I could bulk age in a nearly-full 3-gal better bottle).

I gave it a healthy starter and two shots of O2. The ferment was SO vigorous, it reached 1.018 in just a couple of days.

 

[smagee]

When soaking the oak in a port ( I have spirals ), is there any "right" way to do it? I've seen people soaking in tupperware covered and uncovered, some boil the oak first, some don't...

I'm hoping to get on this within the next couple weeks and figure I should get the oak soaking. It will probably be soaking for about a month before it needs to go in the keg.

Thanks.

I'd keep it sealed (airtight), since you're ostensibly supposed to add at least some of the liquid to the brew itself and you don't want it to oxidize. I didn't boil (nor would I recommend it); port typically has enough alcohol in it that microbes won't really be able to do much and the boiling could soak out some of the oakiness.

FWIW, I soaked my oak cubes in vanilla bourbon for ~4-5 months and the flavor's coming out nicely after a few weeks in the beer. I don't think that kind of timeframe is required (I just took longer than expected to brew it up), but more time is going to be better. Sounds like you're on the right track!