Off flavour

[MrFeltimo]

My ESB several batched ago had this odd smell and flavour to it.
My Rye IPA also had the same odd smell and flavour to it.
Now i cant discribe it for some reason, in the ESB it was every bottle and in the IPA it was maybe 70% of the bottles.
I looked into my techneque, (All Grain, Batch sparge), I was worried about my temps, all good, i calibrated my thermometer, checked my water, even used bottled water.
When i bottle, I PBW all bottles, rinse with a bottle washer, clean the outside, sanitize with a sqirty thingy and place on a tree, my caps are soaking for the duration too.
I boil a pint of water and add mt measured amount of corn suger.

Not only that, but i recently bottled my hard SIGHder, same bottling process.
I drank several bottles before it was fully carbed to tast test and all was great, however last night i cracked open a fully carbed bottle and BAM, same off flavour.

ADVICE, HELP, ANYTHING.
Am i missing something?

DAN

 

[ThreeSheetsBrewing]

The thing you haven't investigated is your bottling bucket. Perhaps it has some contamination. Most likely in the spigot or tubing/bottling wand.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[MrFeltimo]

The thing you haven't investigated is your bottling bucket. Perhaps it has some contamination. Most likely in the spigot or tubing/bottling wand.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Home Brew mobile app

I did think about that after the two beers, so i bought a new spigot, i did pull the wand apart to saniize but didnt really clean apart from rinsing under hot water, maybe i will take it apart tonignt and inspect.
What about my sanitizer, i do get several uses out of it, Star-San, i keep it in a 5 gallon better bottle with a bung on top, it has got cloudy, maybe?
also my length of priming suger boiling time, usually about 8 minutes+, could this play a roll?
Thanks for the reply
DAN

 

[prpromin]

Oxidation? How's your transfer technique? Using a secondary fermentor or no?

 

[Hello]

Is there anyone else who brews who may be able to try your beer and help you determine the flavor? Like a LHBS? Sometimes if the process can't be picked apart enough to help, I find bringing in even the bad stuff to share with someone helpful in identifying what may have went wrong.

 

[IslandLizard]

Apart from you're imagining things or an oversight in the brewing process (oxidation), it may be cleaning and sanitation particularly in the bottling process. Does the taste get worse with time?

Cloudy Starsan shouldn't matter as long as the pH is below 3 (2.3 is the target). Now if you get a lot of PBW carry-over into your Starsan the pH will rise, depleting it quickly. Test with cheap pH strips (cut in 1/4s) or your pH meter.

The bottle bucket spigot and the rubber washer are bug traps. The spigot body (the 2 barrels) will pull apart after soaking in very hot water. The space in between is where bugs can hide.

Your bottles. Are the labels removed? IMO you can't clean bottles with paper clinging to it. Now jet rinsing and sanitizing the inside should suffice, but who knows? Do you use a bottle brush with the PBW?

If you have a spring loaded bottle wand the tippy comes apart for thorough cleaning. Don't lose the spring or plunger.

Racking canes, siphons, and hoses. Just rinsing with water may not be enough. A long (draw) brush or a cotton wad with a string attached will help cleaning the inside. Or use new hoses for racking.
The inside of my stainless racking cane's gets cleaned with Barkeeper's Friend, using a long brush every so often.

Hope you find the culprit. Go over each step meticulously trying to find if something gets missed.

 

[MrFeltimo]

Thanks.
No secondary
i do use a bottle brush
lables are removed.
Next step is to gather all my bottling stuff, hoses, siphons, cane and stuff, and give it a real soak and invest in a brush to allow me to clean inside the smaller tubes.
Oh, I dont know my Ph, so i will put them on the shopping list too.

DAN

 

[IslandLizard]

Is there anyone else who brews who may be able to try your beer and help you determine the flavor? Like a LHBS? Sometimes if the process can't be picked apart enough to help, I find bringing in even the bad stuff to share with someone helpful in identifying what may have went wrong.

This is probably the best suggestion. Homebrew club, other brewers in your area, LHBS.

You said 70% of that IPA batch is affected. Is the other 30% clean and good? If so it pinpoints to your packaging line.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks.
No secondary
i do use a bottle brush
lables are removed.
Next step is to gather all my bottling stuff, hoses, siphons, cane and stuff, and give it a real soak and invest in a brush to allow me to clean inside the smaller tubes.
Oh, I dont know my Ph, so i will put them on the shopping list too.

DAN

If you made a 5Gal Starsan solution and you only use from it what you need, but never return any of it, it should stay fresh forever, and the pH doesn't change. It's reusing that may raise the pH.

I use my Starsan tub over and over for months. Things soak in there permanently, like a thief, fine mesh hop bags, stoppers, caps, racking cane, vinyl racking hoses, bottle wand, etc. I do add some Phosphoric Acid (0.5-1.0 ml/5 gallons) at times to keep the pH in check. When it gets too cloudy or I feel it's getting old, I dump it and make a new batch. That feels so good, all fresh and clean!

The silicone brew hoses seem to retain more hop aroma and color, even after circulating PBW through it for an hour. They get their own Starsan treatment with a different batch (2 gallons I re-use just for that purpose).

Yes, good idea to scrutinize your bottling line. If in doubt, buy new, and keep the old for other uses. Acrylic and polycarbonate are very cleanable. It's the nooks and crannies where bugs can hide and build up.

 

[MrFeltimo]

thanks lizard, and all
I will take samples to my LHBS, and i do pour the used starsan back into the bulk, this is where im probabully going wrong, as well as bottling equip cleaning.
Many thanks
Dan

 

[CamG]

Just a thought but if some bottles are good and some are bad is it possible that a couple of the branches on your bottle drying tree are contaminated ?
Maybe the bottles that you dry on those branches are the ones that have the off taste.