Nothing but issues since changing gear.

[VagueSkunk]

Glad to hear that you've likely got this sorted out!

 

[marjen]

Glad to hear that you've likely got this sorted out!

Lets hope! This is my first batch with Galaxy so don't want it to be a dud!

 

[deepbluegroove]

The longer time it takes for your immersion chiller to cool the wort, the more bitterness will come out of the whirlpool hops.

The temp issue may also extract more tannins / or even denature the enzymes to convert the mash.

Also what are you doing for water treatment? Do you know your mash pH? Are you adding minerals ? Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium (epsom), etc to get to a specific profile?

Temp control for fermentation. If you don't have that and you under pitch you will eventually run into problems.

Lets say you under pitch, and don't add any calcium to your water. The yeast are going to be under nourished (not enough calcium and maybe not enough oxygen), and be spending a long time reproducing to get to the cell count to actually ferment your beer. But in the process they are stressed and they are making lots of off flavors. Then the temp is all over the place again adding more possible off flavors...

 

[IslandLizard]

Lets hope! This is my first batch with Galaxy so don't want it to be a dud!

I hope so too!

I do think you should keep a closer eye on your pitch rate, regardless.

1 liter on a stir plate is just enough if the fresh pack is no older than a month (77% vitality). 5.5 gallon @1.060 OG needs 230B cells, exactly what your 1 liter starter contains with not much margin of error.

However, when the fresh pack is older, or the yeast was even slightly compromised during storage, handling, or shipping, it starts to fall short. Even increasing starter volume to 1.5 liter provides you with an added safety margin.

For example, I make 1.6 liter starters in 2 liter flasks (or half gallon pickle jars) on an orbital shaker. 1.8 liter is about the limit with that setup. I also use gallon jugs to double the amount for 10 gallon pitches. For a DIPA I'll run a 2 liter flask next to it, etc. I routinely ranch yeast so I buy fresh packs only when needed.

For 10 (11) gallon batches, double the amount of cells is needed. Either build or buy a 2nd stir plate and another 2l flask (or two) or build starters ahead of time. You can store the decanted slurry in well sanitized (or sterilized) mason jars.

Are you pitching your 1 liter starter whole, 24 hours after starting it, without crashing and decanting? That will give you more vital yeast, as it didn't go dormant during cold crashing (or refrigerated storage), so you'll have a shorter lag time. The cell count still needs to be in the same range, though.

 

[eric19312]

I'll give you one more thing to consider. I read what you said about fermentation temperatures and how your best batch ever was the one that temps hit the mid-low 80s. I don't buy it. Ale yeast like temperature control. You are in your first year of brewing and started in the winter. Brewed great beer when it was cold and now it is early summer and the beer is not coming out so good. Invest in active temperature control, you won't regret it. A fridge or freezer with an inkbird controller is very easy. Maybe add a thermowell to the Spiedel. What you are describing is much more likely a contamination or fermentation issue than a mash temperature issue.

 

[marjen]

Well I was in another thread about starters and it made me realize I have been completely hosing my starters recently, damn. For some reason I have flaked and have been using 2 cups of DME. SO for the bad batches it was 2 cups of DME in a 1.5 liter starter, and for this latest batch, I actually did 2 cups in a 1 liter starter Not sure how I got off track from the required 1 cup for 1 liter starter. SO I am assuming this batch with not be what I am expecting. I am going to let it runs its course and keep it in the fermenter longer. I am assuming there are some seriously stressed yeast in my fermenter right now. I was planning on brewing this Sunday anyway, So I will make sure i make a proper starter this time.

I read what you said about fermentation temperatures and how your best batch ever was the one that temps hit the mid-low 80s. I don't buy it.

You can buy it or not, its the truth. I was expecting it to be bad and it really ended up being excellent. I was quite surprised. It was in the low 80s at least 12-18 hours. Once I discovered it I cut off the heater so it dropped back down. I will say that primary fermentation was most likely done by the time this happened as it was 4-5 days out.

 

[IslandLizard]

Well I was in another thread about starters and it made me realize I have been completely hosing my starters recently, damn. For some reason I have flaked and have been using 2 cups of DME. SO for the bad batches it was 2 cups of DME in a 1.5 liter starter, and for this latest batch, I actually did 2 cups in a 1 liter starter Not sure how I got off track from the required 1 cup for 1 liter starter. SO I am assuming this batch with not be what I am expecting. I am going to let it runs its course and keep it in the fermenter longer. I am assuming there are some seriously stressed yeast in my fermenter right now. I was planning on brewing this Sunday anyway, So I will make sure i make a proper starter this time.

Why not weigh your DME? Or at least calibrate your cup's worth of DME against what it weighs.

A 1.035-1.040 starter is made at a ratio of 1 DME : 10 Water, by weight.
For example, 100 grams DME per liter (=1000 grams) of water.

FYI, there are about 3 cups of DME in a pound.
So a cup of DME weighs about 151 grams, which is good for 1.5 liter of starter wort.

BTW, the starter guidelines from Palmer's How to Brew, 3rd ed. are wrong.

Even if you forget all of this, remember starters are 1:10.

 

[marjen]

Well I am back and don't have good news. I am honestly at a loss and beyond frustrated at this point.

I have had the beer in the Speidel for 9 days now. With my NE IPAs, when things were going well my time in fermenter ranged from 6-10 days. Usually out in 6-7. Sampling out of the fermenter always resulted in a fruity smelling good tasting beer (considering it was flat and warm). I just tried a sample out of the fermenter and it tastes gross AGAIN!! WTF.

This was a 5 gallon batch of a recipe I made before. I can't even describe the taste. It just hits your mouth and tastes terrible when you spit it out, there is a burning feeling in my mouth and it honestly makes you want to hurl.

I do not see any issues with my process. My mash temp was a little higher than I'd like but at 156 is very acceptable. My fermentation temps were in the upper 60s as usual. One thing I have noticed with all these bad tasting beers is the top of the beer is not clearing in the fermenter. Prior the top would always just look like beer. Now it just looks like it does during fermentation. Though only a thin (maybe 1/4) layer. Its just not clearing.

At this point I am going to leave it in the fermenter for a couple more days, see if anything changes. I have now wasted a ton of $$$ on ingredients and have not been able to produce a drinkable beer in about 6 weeks. 2 10 gallon batches and now this 5 gallon batch all bad. I have another one in the fermenter as we speak, it looks like its going good but I guess I can expect that one to suck as well. I just can't seem to right the ship here and I have not a clue as to why. My cleaning methods are solid, process is same as before. Just no idea what is happening.

 

[TheMadKing]

Well I am back and don't have good news. I am honestly at a loss and beyond frustrated at this point.

I have had the beer in the Speidel for 9 days now. With my NE IPAs, when things were going well my time in fermenter ranged from 6-10 days. Usually out in 6-7. Sampling out of the fermenter always resulted in a fruity smelling good tasting beer (considering it was flat and warm). I just tried a sample out of the fermenter and it tastes gross AGAIN!! WTF.

This was a 5 gallon batch of a recipe I made before. I can't even describe the taste. It just hits your mouth and tastes terrible when you spit it out, there is a burning feeling in my mouth and it honestly makes you want to hurl.

I do not see any issues with my process. My mash temp was a little higher than I'd like but at 156 is very acceptable. My fermentation temps were in the upper 60s as usual. One thing I have noticed with all these bad tasting beers is the top of the beer is not clearing in the fermenter. Prior the top would always just look like beer. Now it just looks like it does during fermentation. Though only a thin (maybe 1/4) layer. Its just not clearing.

At this point I am going to leave it in the fermenter for a couple more days, see if anything changes. I have now wasted a ton of $$$ on ingredients and have not been able to produce a drinkable beer in about 6 weeks. 2 10 gallon batches and now this 5 gallon batch all bad. I have another one in the fermenter as we speak, it looks like its going good but I guess I can expect that one to suck as well. I just can't seem to right the ship here and I have not a clue as to why. My cleaning methods are solid, process is same as before. Just no idea what is happening.

Can you describe the taste a little more?

"Burning feeling" points me to fusal alcohols, which points to fermentation/yeast issues.

Are you measuring the liquid temperature during fermentation or the ambient temperature? And if your starter was made with stressed yeast that might have caused issues.

It could also be an infection or chemical leaching in your fermentor. It might be worth doing a very very thorough cleaning and maybe bleach bombing.

Make sure you check inside your ball valve and all tubing and transfer equipment including your pump

 

[marjen]

Can you describe the taste a little more?

"Burning feeling" points me to fusal alcohols, which points to fermentation/yeast issues.

Are you measuring the liquid temperature during fermentation or the ambient temperature? And if your starter was made with stressed yeast that might have caused issues.

I am measuring temp based on the temp strip on the fermenter. It peaked at 72ish day two I then dropped it down into 66-68 range and let it rise to 68-70 going on day 11 now. This is well within range for the strain of yeast (WY1318) and in line with past batches.

I really dont know how to describe the taste other than the burning, especially at the end. And the beer is still very murky, greenish. And the top is not clearing at all.

 

[TheMadKing]

I am measuring temp based on the temp strip on the fermenter. It peaked at 72ish day two I then dropped it down into 66-68 range and let it rise to 68-70 going on day 11 now. This is well within range for the strain of yeast (WY1318) and in line with past batches.

I really dont know how to describe the taste other than the burning, especially at the end. And the beer is still very murky, greenish. And the top is not clearing at all.

That really sounds like an infection. Are there any strange smells?

 

[marjen]

I popped the top off quick and tried to take a couple pics to see if people think it looks infected. The first one was taken with a flash which is why it looks shinier.

 

[MerlinWerks]

I know it might not make sense since you liked your five gallon batches and I assume your current process is similar, but it sounds to me like you still have a lot of hop particulate floating in the beer. (this is not a comment on the previous pictures, I understand that is in your current fermenter)

I have an NEIPA that I kegged two weeks ago that is still undrinkable because of too much hop material floating in the beer and I use a SS spider in the BK and a Wilserbrewer bag almost big enough to line my Speidel for dry-hopping. From past experience I know it will eventually settle out and be drinkable.

 

[zgja2]

Well I am back and don't have good news. I am honestly at a loss and beyond frustrated at this point.

I have had the beer in the Speidel for 9 days now. With my NE IPAs, when things were going well my time in fermenter ranged from 6-10 days. Usually out in 6-7. Sampling out of the fermenter always resulted in a fruity smelling good tasting beer (considering it was flat and warm). I just tried a sample out of the fermenter and it tastes gross AGAIN!! WTF.

This was a 5 gallon batch of a recipe I made before. I can't even describe the taste. It just hits your mouth and tastes terrible when you spit it out, there is a burning feeling in my mouth and it honestly makes you want to hurl.

I do not see any issues with my process. My mash temp was a little higher than I'd like but at 156 is very acceptable. My fermentation temps were in the upper 60s as usual. One thing I have noticed with all these bad tasting beers is the top of the beer is not clearing in the fermenter. Prior the top would always just look like beer. Now it just looks like it does during fermentation. Though only a thin (maybe 1/4) layer. Its just not clearing.

At this point I am going to leave it in the fermenter for a couple more days, see if anything changes. I have now wasted a ton of $$$ on ingredients and have not been able to produce a drinkable beer in about 6 weeks. 2 10 gallon batches and now this 5 gallon batch all bad. I have another one in the fermenter as we speak, it looks like its going good but I guess I can expect that one to suck as well. I just can't seem to right the ship here and I have not a clue as to why. My cleaning methods are solid, process is same as before. Just no idea what is happening.

At 6 days you had a ton of yeast still in suspension. This is giving you the hot sensation. It is like a hot pepper burn. I have experienced this in several beers that have too much yeast in suspension. Dry hop it, crash it on day 14, and package. 6-10 days is too quick for 1318 IME.

 

[marjen]

At 6 days you had a ton of yeast still in suspension. This is giving you the hot sensation. It is like a hot pepper burn. I have experienced this in several beers that have too much yeast in suspension. Dry hop it, crash it on day 14, and package. 6-10 days is too quick for 1318 IME.

I am wondering if this is correct. It is a bit like a pepper burn i guess. Today is day 13 and it seemed much better. I think I am going to leave it in there to tomorrow, move it to a keg, cold crash it then move to another keg and carb.

Strange question then, could this either A) be because of a different fermenter or B) because I hosed my starter?

I have had this issue all 4 times I have filled my two new Speidel Fermenters. Could they somehow be causing the process to slow as compared to my previous carboys? They have a ton more headspace compared to the carboys, could that slow things down drastically? Also strange I have another batch currently in a new Fermentasaurus fermenter. It is only day 6 and it is all cleared ups on top and the trub is tightly packed at the bottom. It looks like my previous batches I did in the carboys after day 6-7. Meanwhile on day 13 still lots of stuff on the surface in the speidel.

Another question if I transfer this to a keg, crash and transfer to another keg, will it just bring along any crap with it anyway?

I have an NEIPA that I kegged two weeks ago that is still undrinkable because of too much hop material floating in the beer and I use a SS spider in the BK and a Wilserbrewer bag almost big enough to line my Speidel for dry-hopping. From past experience I know it will eventually settle out and be drinkable.

This is a possibility too. Whether yeast of hops something is sticking around. My prior experience though with WY1318 was it moved quickly and cleaned up quickly. I had moved 5-7 straight batches into keg between 6-10 days and all of those prior batches tasted very good to great. So not sure why it would slow down now? Again wondering if the change from carboy to Speidel is somehow responsible.

 

[JJ900]

Interesting theory about the speidel. Definitely sounds like it's just not done and giving it time will fix it. But my recent NEIPA that wasn't completely finished when I bottled it was done in a speidel whereas it's brethren I was basing my timing off of had been carboys. A day or two after bottling the yeast settled and it turned out well.

 

[zgja2]

I am wondering if this is correct. It is a bit like a pepper burn i guess. Today is day 13 and it seemed much better. I think I am going to leave it in there to tomorrow, move it to a keg, cold crash it then move to another keg and carb.

Strange question then, could this either A) be because of a different fermenter or B) because I hosed my starter?

I have had this issue all 4 times I have filled my two new Speidel Fermenters. Could they somehow be causing the process to slow as compared to my previous carboys? They have a ton more headspace compared to the carboys, could that slow things down drastically? Also strange I have another batch currently in a new Fermentasaurus fermenter. It is only day 6 and it is all cleared ups on top and the trub is tightly packed at the bottom. It looks like my previous batches I did in the carboys after day 6-7. Meanwhile on day 13 still lots of stuff on the surface in the speidel.

Another question if I transfer this to a keg, crash and transfer to another keg, will it just bring along any crap with it anyway?




This is a possibility too. Whether yeast of hops something is sticking around. My prior experience though with WY1318 was it moved quickly and cleaned up quickly. I had moved 5-7 straight batches into keg between 6-10 days and all of those prior batches tasted very good to great. So not sure why it would slow down now? Again wondering if the change from carboy to Speidel is somehow responsible.

do you have the ability to crash in you fermentor?

 

[marjen]

do you have the ability to crash in you fermentor?

Unfortunately no. I did move it into a keg and put it in the keezer last night. Today I will transfer to another keg, figure it can't hurt, then carb it up.

The good news is my next batch is looking good. It is not in a Speidel, so still thinking somehow its related to the Speidels which makes no sense, but it would rule out any issues with the hot side new gear.

 

[VagueSkunk]

Dang, that's weird as hell. Can't say that I've heard of off flavors being caused by a particular fermenter. Not saying it's not possible...just that I've never heard of it.

 

[Moose_MI]

I don't have any answers but I made a major move in equipment in early December and am just now getting back to making the mediocre/good beer I was 7 months ago. I'm really excited about my new capacity but it has been frustrating getting it dialed in

Hang in there.....

 

[marjen]

So its been a loooooong time since I last posted in this thread but figured it was time for an update.

It took a long while but I finally got to the heart of the problem and have rectified the issue and have now made 4 straight very good batches of beer and the 5th seems well on its way.

So the rest of last summer into the fall did not go much better. I got a couple decent batches but most still had the same issue. I finally kind of gave up in mid November. I took a few months off and finally got the itch again in February to start over. During that time I purchased a glycol chiller.

Bottom line the issue I was having was the hops were not dropping out of suspension in all the bad batches. With no ability to cold crash I was moving all the junk over into the keg and therefore it never really cleared all out. I think that even though it should have, it all collected at the bottom of the keg and got pulled into pints and not realizing at the time what was happening I would eventually dump the keg. In hindsight if I had poured though several pints I might have ended up with some decent beer, but I didn't know at the time.

Once I started using the chiller this year and could see a beer go form a murky green mess and turn into an excellent beer after crashing for a couple days and seeing all the hop matter come out when I dumped my unitank it all made sense. Additionally I added a clear beer draught system to my kegs so even if some makes it into the keg I won't be sucking it up.

So for me some better equipment, unitank, chiller and clear beer draught have really gone a LONG way to helping me put out consistently good NE IPAs. Other ways to get there of course, but I am just glad I understand what the issue was and now have a way to deal with it and making beer is fun again. Thanks to everyone who tried to help.

 

[str1p3s]

Just read your whole saga. Glad you're back to making stuff you like! One question though, and maybe I missed it, but how was this not a problem before your new equipment?

 

[marjen]

Thats a good question, luck I guess. Also I did have a LOT of explosions in my carboy fermenters due to the nature of WY1318 so maybe a lot of the hop matter was ending up on my walls, floors, ceiling etc and therefore was not as much left to cause an issue in those batches. That was one of the reasons I started trying new fermenters, to get more headspace.

 

[kh54s10]

Glad you found your issue. It sounds like you are back on track.

I'm also glad that your new fermenters have more headspace and you don't have to clean the ceiling.
Did these "explosions" happen more than once? Did you not use a blow off tube.

I have yet to try a NEIPA since I have only tried a few commercial ones and didn't like any of them. I will have to remember your hop problems if I ever make one.

 

[marjen]

Yeah they happened more than once. 3-4 times. After the first couple I tried a blow off tube but that got all jammed up and still ended up oozing all over the place. By that point I was placing the fermenter in a 20 gallon tote and covering it with a towel to minimize the cleanup effort, lol. Not a fun time. Headspace is key with certain yeasts.