Not so hoppy dry hopping

[Tybalthophead]

All good advice here. I just finished making a 5 gallon IPA in my new conical a few weeks ago. I did a yeast/trub dump after day four. I did another small dump, about a cup or so, just until I saw some beer, after fermentation. I then used a total of 3 ounces, one ounce each of Columbus, Amarillo and Zythos hops. I just put them in the fermenter without a bag and put a blanket of Co2 on top with my Co2 tank. After four days I cold crashed the conical and all the hops sank to the bottom of the cone and below the racking arm. No hop particles got into my keg when transferring the beer. The aroma was unreal and everyone that tried this kept commenting on just how much aroma I was able to get into this beer. Best of luck brewing!

John

Thanks John, this sounds like pretty sound advice. Im going to give this a go. When you mention cold crashing the conical, do you stick the whole thing in a fridge? Mine is full of kegs, and I don't think my SS conical would fit in there even if it were empty.

 

[jcav]

Yes I put the whole thing in my upright freezer. If you look at my build thread in my sig, at the end you will see a pic of the conical in the freezer that I have. I fermented and dry hopped this particular recipe at 68 degrees and cold crashed at 32 degrees. All the hops dropped perfectly to the lower portion of the cone, and any left over yeast dropped to the bottom. I forgot to mention not only was the aroma out of this world but the flavor was perfect. It was grapefruit, citrus, with pine notes also. A burst of soft bitterness and intense aroma. You have a conical, so you might as well use it to your advantage and dump some the yeast after initial fermentation, and again before dry hopping. Hope this helps, it worked for me and I loved the results....

John

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Ive brewed about 10 beers now, mostly IPA's in a vain attempt to feed my lupulin addiction. Ive tried whirlpool additions, 1-1.5 oz per gallon dry hopping, drinking really good IPA whilst brewing, but still can't get a really nice hop-forward character to come out of my beers. They taste great but just don't have enough hops on the nose to make me really happy.

My AG process has been to add a single bettering addition at 60 minutes, and then one addition at flame out, putting all of the rest at whirlpool about 150 degrees. I ferment in a SS conical and do not use secondary fermentation. Generally about 3 weeks total, then dump out trub from the bottom and begin dry hopping.

I use pellets from my LHBS or Yakima Valley hops. Put them in sanitized panty hose with glass marbles and let them sit about 5 days. Ive taken to doing one addition for 5-7 days in the conical, then transferring via the port on the conical directly to a sanitized corny keg to minimize oxygen exposure. I then add the last few oz for another 5-7 days at about 65 degrees.

Finally chill in the fridge and carb over about a week.

As I mentioned the beers taste really good, but they are just missing that hop punch in the face that Ive experienced with some of our local brews, as well as a few commercials (try Be Hoppy if you are ever in Boston)

I welcome help, comments, criticism, free beer, etc

Thanks!

One suggestion is to divide your whirlpool additions in half. Put half in at 175F and half at 140F. Myrcene oil (flavor and aroma) volatilizes above 147F.

Also with dry hopping, look into LESS time, not more. As mentioned, myrcene oil is very unstable and will quickly dissolve. I'm experimenting with dry hopping for only 6-8hrs..yes hrs. 2 of the 3 were the juiciest I've ever made. Last one, I wasn't happy with, but that was a recipe issue. This paper from Oregon St. was about this very subject. If this information is correct, we dry hop way too long. If the oils are saturated within hours, anytime after that oils are just slowly going away. I'm also looking into only leaf hops (or as much as possible) to eliminate this grassy/salty flavor I get sometimes with heavy dry hops.

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

I won't be satisfied until my cheep plastic bucket, $30 fermentation temp control setup is better then 98% of the retail beers out there. I'm at 75% now IMHO....when I don't toss it out!

 

[ZmannR2]

More hops.
2 batches ago I bittered with 1oz Columbus
1oz Amarillo and cascade at 15, 10, 5
1oz each Amarillo, centennial and cascade at FO
Dry hop 5oz Amarillo 6 days
15oz total
This was a pricey brew, but locally available IPAs don't even compare. Aroma is huge. Flavor is huge. Bitterness is just right.
RO with gypsum and CaCl 3:1
Phosphoric to 5.38 pH
92% 2 row
2.66% 120
2.66% 40
2.66% carapils
1lb table sugar
Nice orange leaning toward red, thick white head, good retention.
More hops.

This sounds amazing!

 

[Tybalthophead]

One suggestion is to divide your whirlpool additions in half. Put half in at 175F and half at 140F. Myrcene oil (flavor and aroma) volatilizes above 147F.

Also with dry hopping, look into LESS time, not more. As mentioned, myrcene oil is very unstable and will quickly dissolve. I'm experimenting with dry hopping for only 6-8hrs..yes hrs. 2 of the 3 were the juiciest I've ever made. Last one, I wasn't happy with, but that was a recipe issue. This paper from Oregon St. was about this very subject. If this information is correct, we dry hop way too long. If the oils are saturated within hours, anytime after that oils are just slowly going away. I'm also looking into only leaf hops (or as much as possible) to eliminate this grassy/salty flavor I get sometimes with heavy dry hops.

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

I won't be satisfied until my cheep plastic bucket, $30 fermentation temp control setup is better then 98% of the retail beers out there. I'm at 75% now IMHO....when I don't toss it out!

So it sounds like dry hopping for a day or so and then going right into the keg to chill and carb might be the way to go.
I wonder once you have it in the keg, how long before you begin losing aroma.....

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

So it sounds like dry hopping for a day or so and then going right into the keg to chill and carb might be the way to go.
I wonder once you have it in the keg, how long before you begin losing aroma.....

I've had IPAs last a month, then keg run dry. Kegging 2 tonight after work that I dry hopped last night. Hope I never find out!😀

 

[Mexibilly]

This sounds amazing!

This one is very good.
Another in the long line of hop schedule experiments with the same grain bill.
Late addition and dry hops.
My last IPA got all additions at 20 minutes and less. 10oz total at 20, 15, 10, 5, 0.
I'll dry hop probably 3oz for 7 days then keg.
Then I'll try something different.
Then I'll try something different.
Then...

 

[Tybalthophead]

One suggestion is to divide your whirlpool additions in half. Put half in at 175F and half at 140F. Myrcene oil (flavor and aroma) volatilizes above 147F.

Also with dry hopping, look into LESS time, not more. As mentioned, myrcene oil is very unstable and will quickly dissolve. I'm experimenting with dry hopping for only 6-8hrs..yes hrs. 2 of the 3 were the juiciest I've ever made. Last one, I wasn't happy with, but that was a recipe issue. This paper from Oregon St. was about this very subject. If this information is correct, we dry hop way too long. If the oils are saturated within hours, anytime after that oils are just slowly going away. I'm also looking into only leaf hops (or as much as possible) to eliminate this grassy/salty flavor I get sometimes with heavy dry hops.

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

I won't be satisfied until my cheep plastic bucket, $30 fermentation temp control setup is better then 98% of the retail beers out there. I'm at 75% now IMHO....when I don't toss it out!

So if the goal is maximizing hop flavor, it would seem that trying to package the beer into either kegs or bottles in the shortest amount of time while maximizing flavor would be the goal. Perhaps a day or 2 of dry hopping and then right to the keg, carb and serve ASAP to maximize hop aroma? If its true that after a short time the oils are just going away. I wonder about dry hopping right into the keg while serving as Ive read on other posts.....

 

[Tybalthophead]

Yes I put the whole thing in my upright freezer. If you look at my build thread in my sig, at the end you will see a pic of the conical in the freezer that I have. I fermented and dry hopped this particular recipe at 68 degrees and cold crashed at 32 degrees. All the hops dropped perfectly to the lower portion of the cone, and any left over yeast dropped to the bottom. I forgot to mention not only was the aroma out of this world but the flavor was perfect. It was grapefruit, citrus, with pine notes also. A burst of soft bitterness and intense aroma. You have a conical, so you might as well use it to your advantage and dump some the yeast after initial fermentation, and again before dry hopping. Hope this helps, it worked for me and I loved the results....

John

I put 4 oz of Citra in yesterday and will plan to put the conical into the keezer and cold crash. Looking forward to the results!

 

[jcav]

I put 4 oz of Citra in yesterday and will plan to put the conical into the keezer and cold crash. Looking forward to the results!

Excellent, let us know how it turns out. I think you will be pleasantly surprised!

John

 

[rawlus]

As others have said, dial in your water profile and pH and mess around more with the amounts and temps of whirlpool additions, it's not usual for me to have several temp additions during whirlpool. Length of whirlpool can also be played around with.

There is no magic formula that I know of, but experimentation and learning the ins and outs of your system and process is real important.