[Not a] Bike Pump Keg [Evolution]

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In my line of work we always say the more data the better.

You can predict off past experience but each experience is unique and this experience is unique, (parts, experience, money).

What you L337 internet DIYers don't understand is, fail or succeed this data is valuable to someboday at some time.

It's obvious this is happening no matter how much of an activist against it you are, (Try getting involved in something of importance).

Settle down.......DIY failure has to happen in order to push the envelope.
 
Sigh...

I've read every post in this thread (I'm at work and really bored) and I have to say, I too commend you PizzaMan.

I understand why you're trying to create something like this. However, I have to say making something all plastic just doesn't seem feasible. What's wrong with the ones using copper fittings again?

I know you're going to keep trying no matter what. However, I'd just like to throw in my .02 and say that maybe creating one like some of the other people have posted isn't such a bad idea. Give it a try and maybe make some mods on it to suit it more closely to what you would like?

Some more inspiration (I've always thought these were cool, expensive, but cool):

growler-tap.jpg
 
Spring break is over, back to work...

My initial epoxy tests failed for a number of reasons. Basically the epoxy I'm working with, and most epoxies, can't stand up to more than about 5-10 psi. I'm trying one final test with it just to be sure, and then I'm moving on. J.B. Weld has a product called "waterweld", which is made for sealing water and air leaks by welding any porous or non-porous material, including plastics. It has a tensile strength of 6,000 psi, compression strength of 12,000 psi, and hardness of 65 psi; more than enough for my application. It's also non-toxic, water-resistant, and has a wide temperature range. 4oz of waterweld is about $5, I'll start testing this as soon as I get a chance to run to the hardware store.
 
You blew right over my earlier suggestion - so I'll say it again. Fass-Frisch 5L mini-kegs are an ideal solution for you. Package your beer in those, prime lightly and use the gravity tap to dispense. Quite easy to finish 1.3 gallons in a weekend.
 
flyangler18 said:
You blew right over my earlier suggestion - so I'll say it again. Fass-Frisch 5L mini-kegs are an ideal solution for you. Package your beer in those, prime lightly and use the gravity tap to dispense. Quite easy to finish 1.3 gallons in a weekend.
Click to expand...


I "blew over" your earlier suggestion because of the fact that you yourself only found out about the mini-keg 5 months ago, and presumably have only been using them for a few months.
 
pizzaman said:
I "blew over" your earlier suggestion because of the fact that you yourself only found out about the mini-keg 5 months ago, and presumably have only been using them for a few months.
Click to expand...

So you pass over something designed to do exactly what you want at a very reasonable price because the person sugesting it has only been using them for 5 months?

I've been using them for elevinty billion years. Does that make it easier to accept as a solution to a non-existent problem?

double-facepalm-demotivational-poster-1219545212.jpg
 
Fine. I've used them, in one form or another, for over 5 years. If it wasn't a cheap, decent solution do you think major breweries would be using them?

You can buy a half dozen at most good beer stores for the cost of the beer they contain. Naturally condition and go or use the stuff you'll otherwise be throwing away when the bottle bomb design fails. Easily available, easy to transport, easy to maintain, doesn't make your beer area look like a meth lab. All "wins" in my book.
 
I completely agree with you. 5L mini-kegs are a cheap, disposable, one-time-use solution; like metal cans. Some people have found an effective way to reuse them, the first to do so was probably ridiculed for trying something so ridiculous. I'm confused as to what you are referring to as bombs, are they the plastic containers that every single soda manufacturer in the world uses? Or the plastic containers being sold for use as "party-pigs" and "tap-a-draft" systems by major homebrew supply chains? These bottles are more easily/cheaply available, easier to transport, and easier to maintain, and if one of the bottles does happen to break it costs $1 to replace it. If it makes me a poor cheapskate for wanting to be able to build an effective system so cheaply, meth-lab looking or not, then so be it; I know there are people reading this thread waiting for me to succeed so they can build their own. I'm sorry it's so offensive to you that I'm thinking outside of the box from your one, simple, set way of thinking, but you don't have to read or comment on this thread if it's irritating you so much. Just wait for me to blow myself up and then have another homebrew on me. :cross:

Back to the topic now....I'll be heading to the hardware store tomorrow to get me some j.b. waterweld: J-B Weld Company - WATER WELD Product Information
 
pizzaman said:
I completely agree with you. 5L mini-kegs are a cheap, disposable, one-time-use solution; like metal cans. Some people have found an effective way to reuse them, the first to do so was probably ridiculed for trying something so ridiculous. I'm confused as to what you are referring to as bombs, are they the plastic containers that every single soda manufacturer in the world uses? Or the plastic containers being sold for use as "party-pigs" and "tap-a-draft" systems by major homebrew supply chains? These bottles are more easily/cheaply available, easier to transport, and easier to maintain, and if one of the bottles does happen to break it costs $1 to replace it. If it makes me a poor cheapskate for wanting to be able to build an effective system so cheaply, meth-lab looking or not, then so be it; I know there are people reading this thread waiting for me to succeed so they can build their own. I'm sorry it's so offensive to you that I'm thinking outside of the box from your one, simple, set way of thinking, but you don't have to read or comment on this thread if it's irritating you so much. Just wait for me to blow myself up and then have another homebrew on me. :cross:

Back to the topic now....I'll be heading to the hardware store tomorrow to get me some j.b. waterweld: J-B Weld Company - WATER WELD Product Information
Click to expand...


You know that you are more or less reinventing the wheel so you need to take some of the criticism with a grain of salt.

5L mini-kegs are reusable as are the TAD bottles. You just need to take special care in the cleaning of them and not overcarb them.

As for bombs, I think it goes so the fact that you earlier tried using non-rated regulators for CO2. I believe they were for compressed air. Not to mention you have commented on your trial and error with adhesives and corks. A number of people have warned you about the dangers.

I think people are astounded by the amount of effort you putting into this for something that is commonly available off the shelf.

My suggestion to you is to hold off on your posts until you have a working model to demo. I think if you have that people will address this differently. Right now they are just thinking its a phenomenal waste of time. Prove them wrong if you can with something that works and is simple.

My $0.02
 
Once again, EPOXY IS NOT THE SOLUTION!!! Simply using more/better glue on an inferior design is not the answer. No pressure fitting is ever just glued onto the outside of its housing. Find a mechanical means of securing it, using the pressure to compress the seal.
 
Try bulkhead fittings. 1/8 or 1/4 NPT

With this you have a nut & a seal on both sides of a cap. Then you can fit a compression fitting on either end.

5454kp8l.gif


McMaster-Carr

It would need to be a Tee'd on top for gas & beer.

Think about this application: New Page 1

DSC01834.JPG
 
Pizzaman... I just think you really need to be honest with fellow HBT'ers and say " I dont want your help or comments, I wanna do it my way and that's it". Most of us here really do come here to learn and help. We havnt learned anything yet, and you havnt allowed us to help either .. have you?

Go, Gadget, Go! «

3l-keg-fitting.jpg
 
Criticizing an ill-conceived idea is entirely different than a personal attack and name calling.

Step back and actually think about what you are doing. Critical thinking is a good thing in DIY.

Use it.
 
My apologies to everyone I have offended. I've said some rude things in response to what I assumed were rude comments. If this thread is not locked I'll report back on my cold-weld testing tonight or tomorrow. If it is locked, I'll continue tinkering until I find a solution that works, and I'll post my final "product" in a DIY thread.
 
Off topic posts (from both sides) removed.
Off topic comments (from both sides) edited.
Thread moved to DIY.
Let's keep it on topic and refrain from excessive personal commentary.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
You appear to be grossly overestimating the utility of epoxy for your application. Re-engineer it so that you don't have to use so much glue...or so many bottles, for that matter.
Click to expand...

Yuri_Rage said:
This is just plain dangerous. Please find a mechanical means of sealing your pressure vessels instead of relying on friction and glued up pieces of wood.
Click to expand...

Yuri_Rage said:
Once again, EPOXY IS NOT THE SOLUTION!!! Simply using more/better glue on an inferior design is not the answer. No pressure fitting is ever just glued onto the outside of its housing. Find a mechanical means of securing it, using the pressure to compress the seal.
Click to expand...

Yuri_Rage said:
No, like a fitting that isn't simply tubing jammed/glued into a plastic cap.
Click to expand...

1) Yuri is the technical expert - IMO, unless you address his points this thread has little diy value.

2) Others, who's posts may have been removed, offered salient points regarding making this an economical enterprise. If you continue to disregard these points, IMO, this thread has little utility for others.

3) Doing 1 and 2 begins to make you a community outsider and I begin to wonder what kind of ego exercise this is. This is a community based upon sharing useful information. i have to ask where this all fits in.
 
If you're going to link multiple PET bottles together, I'd recommend connecting them in series. In your 3D models you have the bottles in parallel. Due to the pressure drop caused by the lines the bottles will empty at different rates while in a parallel connection. Once the first bottles empties it will blow CO2 through the rest of the lines and you will not be able to empty the rest of the bottles. The same would happen if the bottles are not all filled to the exact same level.

Using the series arrangement you will need to apply higher CO2 pressure to the system to push beer through all of that tubing. This will make your challenge of sealing the lids even more difficult.

I still don't understand why you don't want to use the 5L kegs? They're pretty much free, and would be MUCH easier to use.:drunk:
 
bnscherm said:
I still don't understand why you don't want to use the 5L kegs? They're pretty much free, and would be MUCH easier to use.:drunk:
Click to expand...

I suppose you're right. This has been a lot of nonsense just to make some stupid thing that will probably break halfway through the second time I try to use it. Anyone from san antonio know a place that sells coors light in mini-kegs? This is the only beer besides my homebrew that the wifey and I drink...I'll be like "look honey, your favorite beer, in a reusable keg that I already have a co2 tank and regulator for!"
 
If nothing else, you are trying to pioneer a new idea. Who knows, in it's fifteenth incarnation you might just come up with something that will really, truly work well and be inexpensively make from junk you can find at home. When and if that happens, it could provide a steppingstone for those who can't afford to go straight to kegging.
 
Domminigan said:
If nothing else, you are trying to pioneer a new idea. Who knows, in it's fifteenth incarnation you might just come up with something that will really, truly work well and be inexpensively make from junk you can find at home. When and if that happens, it could provide a steppingstone for those who can't afford to go straight to kegging.
Click to expand...

But is it safe? I think that has been the main crux of this.

The cost of kegging is not all that expensive. A Regulator, a few Kegs, and a party tap. Not much dough.

One doesn't need a 4 tap kegerator when just starting out. A few kegs can fit in a spare fridge with the regulator & party tap.
 
I've got a prototype sitting at 25psi right now. No special glues/epoxies or expensive gadgets required. I don't see or hear any leaks, I'll be doing an underwater test in a bit to be sure. If it holds psi I'll post the build plans. Total cost for this one was about $1, plus the tools required to build it, and the co2 tank, regulator, and tap.
 
If you're buying the tank, regulator, and tap, you're saving the cost of a keg ($20). The "meth lab" prototype looked to be taking up as much space in a fridge as a kegging setup. Used fridges are cheap, anyway - and using coke bottles or whatever, you're not fitting that in the house's main fridge and not pissing off the wife! 99 wives out of 100 are telling you - GET YOUR OWN DAMN FRIDGE FOR THAT BEER GEAR!

So what cost are you REALLY saving? As far as I can see - you're "saving" the cost of the keg, which is almost negligible as far as I'm concerned.
 
pizzaman said:
I've got a prototype sitting at 25psi right now. No special glues/epoxies or expensive gadgets required. I don't see or hear any leaks, I'll be doing an underwater test in a bit to be sure. If it holds psi I'll post the build plans. Total cost for this one was about $1, plus the tools required to build it, and the co2 tank, regulator, and tap.
Click to expand...


please post a pic , I cant wait to see it.
 
I've ditched the clusterKeg idea, due to the problems pointed out by bnscherm. Basically it would be impossible to have more than one keg hooked up to a single tap in parallel without the co2 displacing the beer once one of the bottles became empty. I'm just perfecting the cheapest possible 38mm cap tap which, as I've pointed out before, is the same cap size for 2 liter, 3 liter, and 6 liter pet bottles. Once testing is complete I'll post pics and a build tutorial in a new thread, with a proper thread title...bike pump keg has completely lost its meaning.
 
Had a minor setback today(again) trying to purchase hose clamps at lowes; they were out of the size I needed. The guy helping me recommended I go to an auto parts store to get it, unfortunately I had to go to work so first thing tomorrow I'll be heading to autozone to get the clamps, then I'll hook everything up and start official pressure testing.
 
the_bird said:
If you're buying the tank, regulator, and tap, you're saving the cost of a keg ($20). The "meth lab" prototype looked to be taking up as much space in a fridge as a kegging setup. Used fridges are cheap, anyway - and using coke bottles or whatever, you're not fitting that in the house's main fridge and not pissing off the wife! 99 wives out of 100 are telling you - GET YOUR OWN DAMN FRIDGE FOR THAT BEER GEAR!

So what cost are you REALLY saving? As far as I can see - you're "saving" the cost of the keg, which is almost negligible as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

I buy my kegs for $15. So yes, negligible. And my wife did kick me out of the fridge.

pizzaman said:
I've got a prototype sitting at 25psi right now. No special glues/epoxies or expensive gadgets required. I don't see or hear any leaks, I'll be doing an underwater test in a bit to be sure. If it holds psi I'll post the build plans. Total cost for this one was about $1, plus the tools required to build it, and the co2 tank, regulator, and tap.
Click to expand...

I brewed my first batch of beer for less than a buck. Except for the carboys and tubing and other stuff and ingredients I needed to buy for it. So kudos to you for following the same route that I did when I invented a way to brew my own beer at home. I didn't need any epoxies either. I thought I did. I insisted on it in fact but everyone kept telling me otherwise. In the end I sure proved them right.
 
pizzaman said:
Had a minor setback today(again) trying to purchase hose clamps at lowes; they were out of the size I needed. The guy helping me recommended I go to an auto parts store to get it, unfortunately I had to go to work so first thing tomorrow I'll be heading to autozone to get the clamps, then I'll hook everything up and start official pressure testing.
Click to expand...


Yeah it's weird, a few years ago I remember being able to find all kinds of sizes for hose clamps. Now it's damn near impossible to find small worm clamps that are all stainless. I've tried lowes, home depot, autozone, harbor freight, and Pep Boys. I finally went with Oetiker clamps from Keg Connection. The variations of oetiker type clamps and crimping tools from lowes are ridiculously expensive.
 
Where oh where is everyone finding kegs for $10? The cheapest price I've seen on craig is $35 for used 5gal cornies. Obviously I've seen them at online stores for $10, but you can't honestly say its "only $10" when you have to pay $20+ for shipping....

The first thing I brewed only cost me $1 also dontman. I poured a can of grape juice concentrate into a used, cleaned out gallon milk jug, dumped in some sugar, water, and bread yeast, and used a condom with a hole in it for an airlock. 3 weeks later I had something resembling cheap table wine and a new hobby/addiction. Just goes to show you condoms with holes in them aren't all bad.
 
pizzaman said:
Where oh where is everyone finding kegs for $10? The cheapest price I've seen on craig is $35 for used 5gal cornies. Obviously I've seen them at online stores for $10, but you can't honestly say its "only $10" when you have to pay $20+ for shipping....
Click to expand...

$35 is the going price w/o any haggling or discount shopping.

I got mine from a local business selling them for 15. You can shop around. You might try joining a group. From your area. Post a message in each of these groups asking about deals on kegs.
Mini- kegs
I suggest going with insco2 too.
 

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