Northern Brewer - Buyer Beware

[jschein]

one more before logging out for the night ...
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Ahhh wrong thread; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/dogs.13791/page-132#post-10405289

 

[rlrohan]

I don't agree with this at all. When you buy a company, it's everything. You're buying the assets and liabilities including real things and reputations. For example, NB has the asset of being a recognizable name having been in business a long time and all the high Google search results that go along with it. They have the liability of a pretty big collection of customer complaints and negative reviews in recent years.

IF I bought a company that was suffering from really bad optics (which is why you'd get it at a steep discount), I'd start with a damage control campaign. The first thing that should pop up on the page when you land is a video of the new owner apologizing for the poor service in the past few years and explaining that you bought the business because you wanted to restore customer faith, etc,

It's common in the real world to just put up a banner that says "under new management" which is polite code for "we know this place sucked before but please give us another chance". Internet commerce stores still need a version of this. I'm still convinced that the level of transparency required is proportional to the level of customer discontent. When people wait 3 weeks and don't even get a status update, it has to come with a "hey, we really screwed things up. Here's what happened. Here's how we're working to fix it. Finally, here's what we're willing to do to earn your business back"

Specifically back to NB, in looking at their website, nothing on the front page or in the FAQ or About Us pages has any transparency at all. No acknowledgements of problems, no notice of order delays, ownership changes, nothing. They do talk up their customer service quite a bit though. That is directly counter to thinking your order is going to take a really long time to arrive.

I agree with this. The previous business owner had the website up and running for everyone to see and order from. Many people don’t even know of the transition in ownership that is happening. It’s not that hard to let everyone know when they go to the website that things are changing and we as the new owners are going to make it better.
Full disclosure is always best here if customers are going to understand and probably they should quit taking orders until things get sorted.
It’s obvious they have their hands full and need time.

 

[mac_1103]

probably they should quit taking orders until things get sorted

This would be a great way to lose a bunch of customers permanently. I'm pretty sure that literally no one would do it. There's a huge difference between "under new management/working to make things better" and "closed until further notice."

 

[rlrohan]

Could be true that a lot of customers would not come back to the site, but how many are coming back after long delays in the order with little or no communication. Plus they are mad and spread their dissatisfaction all over social media.

 

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

I'm a former NB customer who got tired of their crap, switched to MoreBeer, and couldn't be happier. At this point I don't know why I'd shift my loyalty back regardless of their ownership status.

But that's just me.

 

[shoengine]

What's the advantage to sticking to one particular site for your ordering needs?

 

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

I know when I place my order it will be filled quickly and accurately. If i have an issue i can connect with a live person. They seem loyal to me, I’ll reciprocate. I brew small batches so I’m not worried about some other vendor being 2 cents cheaper on base malts.

NB used to do all that and I single sourced through them until they bleeped the bed. See no reason to go back.

 

[ncbrewer]

Many people don’t even know of the transition in ownership that is happening.

I didn't know they were undergoing yet another change in ownership until I read this thread.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I didn't know they were undergoing yet another change in ownership until I read this thread.

The sale/move was mentioned in "NB - Still working?" around Sept 15th and that was based on an /r/homebrewing topic (from a reliable poster) from around Sept 8th.

Recently, /r/homebrewing has been a good source for timely topics on warehouse moves and store closures. HomeBrewTalk seems to lag by about a week (if it's even mentioned).

 

[Bobby_M]

The sale/move was mentioned in "NB - Still working?" around Sept 15th and that was based on an /r/homebrewing topic (from a reliable poster) from around Sept 8th.

Recently, /r/homebrewing has been a good source for timely topics on warehouse moves and store closures. HomeBrewTalk seems to lag by about a week (if it's even mentioned).

It shouldn't have to be discovered like it's a speakeasy, but I've already made my point on that a few times. A business is as good as a customer's last transaction. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I understand you have a lot of built up good vibes with what is essentially just a name of a company at this point. It's just nostalgia.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It shouldn't have to be discovered

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are often not.

I don't want to put words in your mouth

Thank you for not doing so.

My interest in NB is simple - the depth of their product catalog.

If the new owners are willing to match (or beat) MoreBeer's prices, fullfill the order on the same day, and have a delivery service that delivers in 3-5 days (order on Monday, arrives by Friday) then they are valuable to me.

I'm willing to give them six to 12 months to adjust to the move and the storm.

 

[Bobby_M]

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are often not.


Thank you for not doing so.

My interest in NB is simple - the depth of their product catalog.

If the new owners are willing to match (or beat) MoreBeer's prices, fullfill the order on the same day, and have a delivery service that delivers in 3-5 days (order on Monday, arrives by Friday) then they are valuable to me.

I'm willing to give them six to 12 months to adjust to the move and the storm.

I understand your reasoning. The part about nostalgia is mostly my sense that you are defending them with a lot more energy than you would if you had never done business with them or stepped foot in their store before.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

My interest in NB is simple - the depth of their product catalog.

If the new owners are willing to match (or beat) MoreBeer's prices, fullfill the order on the same day, and have a delivery service that delivers in 3-5 days (order on Monday, arrives by Friday) then they are valuable to me.

---

And, BTW, the intent in #279 was to provide a source of information on stores in general, not just NB. Use it or don't.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

There is recent ancedotal evidence that suggests that on-line stores (or at least HomeBrewTalk sponsors) monitor and respond (indirectly) to discussion here.

About a week after the topic "First Gold is Wonderful" started, a HomeBrewTalk sponsor send out an email newsletter mentioning that the sponsor had those hops in stock.

Back in #237, I asked

It is this the moment for HomeBrewTalk to stop "hating on" the past owners of NB? Is this the moment to give the new owners a moment (ok, maybe a couple of months) to "digest" the purchase and the 100 year storm?

What if the new owners of NB (et al) are "social media" aware and respond where there is benefit to both us (the customer) and them (the supplier)?

@Bobby_M : Yes, I miss the NB/MWS physical stores. But so do many here who had AIH/AHS as their physical stores.

But [hopefully] we can put the bad experiences in the past.

Maybe HomeBrewTalk can "bury the past" wrt NB and see what the future offers.

My "guess" is that they will be watching "social media" [althought, short term, 12" of rain can change priorities} and will respond on those platforms where there is benefit to them and the customers that use those platforms.

Is there a path for HomeBrewTalk to be part of that discussion?

 

[Yesfan]

There is recent ancedotal evidence that suggests that on-line stores (or at least HomeBrewTalk sponsors) monitor and respond (indirectly) to discussion here.

About a week after the topic "First Gold is Wonderful" started, a HomeBrewTalk sponsor send out an email newsletter mentioning that the sponsor had those hops in stock.

Back in #237, I asked


What if the new owners of NB (et al) are "social media" aware and respond where there is benefit to both us (the customer) and them (the supplier)?

@Bobby_M : Yes, I miss the NB/MWS physical stores. But so do many here who had AIH/AHS as their physical stores.

But [hopefully] we can put the bad experiences in the past.

Maybe HomeBrewTalk can "bury the past" wrt NB and see what the future offers.

My "guess" is that they will be watching "social media" [althought, short term, 12" of rain can change priorities} and will respond on those platforms where there is benefit to them and the customers that use those platforms.

Is there a path for HomeBrewTalk to be part of that discussion?

Frankly, I'm done with NB. I was a fan boy back in the day when Chip and the rest of BrewingTV were still with them. I left after Farley sold them off, but came back after learning ZX ventures (InBev/AB) sold NB off to a new owner and learned the new owner brought back Chip. Bringing back Chip, I thought, maybe this was a step in the right direction as he knows their business model. This new owner has apparently closed the physical stores, laid some folks off, moved the HQ to South Carolina, etc. Add to that, the slow shipping, overpriced items, and the recent "mUh pRinTer pRoBleMs" excuse they had with the AA% amounts on their hops being omitted were a few reasons for me to walk away. There's too many better options out there.

Speaking for myself, I have no past to bury. There's better options out there over Northern Brewer. Why should I waste my time/money on them hoping they'll get it right when I can spend my money on a company(s) that has always gotten it right and listens to their customer base?

 

[Skeeter686]

I don't really understand this debate. If / when NB turns around their customer experience, I'm sure that customers will come back. I've already moved on to other suppliers, and I don't plan to return unless I feel it's worthwhile to me.

If it were the same company with which I had good experiences and they were simply going through a rough spot, I'd cut them some slack. I'm typically a loyal customer. However, this is new owners and employees, and they've not yet established any relationship with me. If they demonstrate that they offer value to me, I'll likely place an order with them. If not, then there are other businesses out there.

 

[MaxStout]

WRT putting the past to rest, I'm all for that. Different time, different company then. I had dished on them a few times in the past, as had others. Continuing to dish on their previous ownership is beating a dead horse.

That said, the "new" NB has to prove itself. I'll reserve judgment, and hope others do, as well. Neither endorse nor condemn. I hope they do well. Let's see how it plays out going forward.

 

[tracer bullet]

^^^ I do totally agree.

However... there are a handful of mom & pop (or pop solo) shops I've turned to who have been stellar. They'd have to close or really mess up for me to switch at this point.

 

[RAmeeti]

When I first noticed that Austin HB, MidWest, and NB were the same physical shipping address, I thought that some company purposely created 3 web sites to gather more eyesballs and set their prices as 'normal' or 'market' prices. Then I learned that they were all bought up by a single investment firm. I certainly understand why they would not close down the extra 2 sites as more eyeballs are always good, but it does seem a bit disingenuous to have 3 sites for a single company. Deceiving? Hmmm. What really caught my eye though when I did price comparisons was that their 'standard' pricing which was indentical on all 3 sites was always the highest when compared against a few other significant sites. That was not a good sign.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Then I learned that they were all bought up by a single investment firm.

• NB owned MWS long before they sold to ZX Ventures (2017)
• AIH owned AHS long before they sold to Blackstreet Captial Holdings (2021).
• The Twin Cities physical stores were closed in 2023, so about a year before Blackstreet sold to J&P Park (Sept 2024).

I did price comparisons was that their 'standard' pricing which was indentical on all 3 sites was always the highest when compared against a few other significant sites.

In other topics, the idea that online stores with warehouses in less expensive regions of the USA can compete by offering lower prices. Over time, will the NB (et al) warehouse move result in lower prices?

Another consideration is shipping time. My regional stores (WI, OH) can deliver 2 or 3 days faster than the CA based stores that I order from occasionally.

That said, the "new" NB has to prove itself. I'll reserve judgment, and hope others do, as well. Neither endorse nor condemn. I hope they do well. Let's see how it plays out going forward.

Hopefully they [the people] are getting close to normal again after the recent storm. Adjusting to the new warehouse will take some time.

They still offer some unique malts that I used to get in the physical stores. If the malts are still available in 6 to 12 months, I may give them a try.

 

[Snuffy]

In the meantime, check out https://greatfermentations.com out of Indianapolis. They are still living in the good ole days.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

National Homebrew Competition results include some related awards. Here's one for 2024:

 

[matt_m]

Great people and a nice store.

 

[CanaHomebrew]

I have had a lot of success with Williams Brewing as well! They always have decent prices and fast shipping, even all the way over to me in Ohio

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For those in the Mid West & Great Lakes area, my experiences with

• Farmhouse Brewing Supply (WI) - HomeBrewTalk sponsor
• Home Brew Ohio (OH) - also a HomeBrewTalk sponsor

are "same day" order fulfillment (place order , shipper picks up that evening, and package is at my door two or three days later (e.g. order very early on Monday, package arrives Wednesday or Thursday). Obviously snow, ice (12" of rain in 24 hours, etc) will slow things down a bit.

 

[Snuffy]

National Homebrew Competition results include some related awards. Here's one for 2024:

View attachment 859844

GF kicks aleck! Good prices. Perfect milling if you buy grains milled. Fractional quantities so you can build recipes w/o leftovers. Responsive to communications. Quick to ship. Free ship over $59. You know... what you used to expect from every online supplier before the corporate raider d-bags started flipping HBSs. And they have reasonably priced in-stock parts for Grainfather. What's not to like?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

the new owners deserve to be judged on their own performance going forward.

give them time to recover from12+" of rain and a warehouse move.

 

[MaxStout]

For those in the Mid West & Great Lakes area, my experiences with

• Farmhouse Brewing Supply (WI) - HomeBrewTalk sponsor
• Home Brew Ohio (OH) - also a HomeBrewTalk sponsor

are "same day" order fulfillment (place order , shipper picks up that evening, and package is at my door two or three days later (e.g. order very early on Monday, package arrives Wednesday or Thursday). Obviously snow, ice (12" of rain in 24 hours, etc) will slow things down a bit.

Always had good experiences with Farmhouse. Haven't tried Ohio, but good to know for future orders.

I'll add Ritebrew for those of us in the Midwest/Great Lakes. Prices are good and they get the order out the door in a day or two. Lots of shipping choices, and Spee-Dee is often the cheapest for me.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Always had good experiences with Farmhouse. Haven't tried Ohio, but good to know for future orders.

+1 for Farmhouse.

Home Brew Ohio (for me) stocks certain dry yeast strains and Muntons DME products that RiteBrew and Farmhouse Brewing Supply does not. So when I'm ordering from Home Brew Ohio, I'll add some malts and hops (as the prices are reasonable). And, like some other stores, once you are a customer, they offer occasional discounts - which "works for me" as I try to keep a 'basement home brew store' where I can brew 'on a whim'.

That being said, the combination of Ritebrew and Farmhouse continues to cover 95% of the malts that I used to find at the physical MWS MSP / NB STP stores.

For hops and 2.5 gal brewers, YVH is a good supplier - the combinationn of 2 oz and 8 oz packages seem to be"just right" for me when brewing 2.5 gal batches 'on a whim'

I'll add Ritebrew for those of us in the Midwest/Great Lakes. Prices are good and they get the order out the door in a day or two. Lots of shipping choices, and Spee-Dee is often the cheapest for me.

For shipping, Spee-Dee vs UPS is likely a "regional" thing. And, for us in this region, competion is good! And, at the moment, I'll spend a couple of dollars more for Speed-Dee.

With RiteBrew, I recently used the "economy/saver' option (10# order) which shipped UPS and arrived next day. Next day delivery for 'economy/saver' shipping is not my expectation going forward, but I'm still delighted with the shipping.

OTOH, UPS seems to have a 'surcharge' for orders over 47# (?) that Speed-Dee (currently) doesn't.

 

[MaxStout]

I try to keep a 'basement home brew store' where I can brew 'on a whim'.

I'm kind of a brew supplies packrat, and keep enough grain, hops and yeast on hand for maybe a half dozen brews. I have a rough idea what styles I want to brew in coming months, just don't always have definite recipes formulated. When I'm about ready to brew I'll cobble something together and brew it. Sometimes, it's just "what can I make from these leftover ingredients?"