New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[aaronm13]

add it end of fermentation to get good mixing

Thanks. Was looking at a video on youtube from my LHS and they recommended this too. Some brewery's reported grassy flavors adding after fermentation was finished. Would mixing with cooled, boiled water be ok?

The Verdant yeast is ripping through this beer. It's down to around 1.030ish from 1.079 after only 48 hours post pitch. This is based off a Tilt so could be way off. If it's correct I might have to add the Spectrum tomorrow or Thursday. I just opened the Fermenter to top crop some yeast and there's exactly a gallon of krausen. It's up to the brim on my SS Brewtec bucket. Glad I have the domed lid to give me a bit more head space.

 

[beervoid]

Thanks. Was looking at a video on youtube from my LHS and they recommended this too. Some brewery's reported grassy flavors adding after fermentation was finished. Would mixing with cooled, boiled water be ok?

The Verdant yeast is ripping through this beer. It's down to around 1.030ish from 1.079 after only 48 hours post pitch. This is based off a Tilt so could be way off. If it's correct I might have to add the Spectrum tomorrow or Thursday. I just opened the Fermenter to top crop some yeast and there's exactly a gallon of krausen. It's up to the brim on my SS Brewtec bucket. Glad I have the domed lid to give me a bit more head space.

I don't see the added value of mixing it with "cooled" water as it won't mix well, did you look up the instruction manual of Barth Haas?
Another benefit of adding during fermentation is to blow off some of the harsher compounds, it's like a super cryo in my experience, quiet one dimensional but good for adding some layer of complexity.

 

[aaronm13]

I don't see the added value of mixing it with "cooled" water as it won't mix well, did you look up the instruction manual of Barth Haas?
Another benefit of adding during fermentation is to blow off some of the harsher compounds, it's like a super cryo in my experience, quiet one dimensional but good for adding some layer of complexity.

I read through it and they recommend mixing it with either wort or deaerated water. I think wort is a bad idea because of oxygen so I'll go with a small amount of water

EDIT: Heated the Spectrum in a water bath per the Haas specifications and it looked like it would flow better so decided not to mix it with water. Drizzled it over the top of the krausen so hopefully it will get mixed in well. Beer probably has around 10 points left to go.

 

[popquizkid]

I read through it and they recommend mixing it with either wort or deaerated water. I think wort is a bad idea because of oxygen so I'll go with a small amount of water

EDIT: Heated the Spectrum in a water bath per the Haas specifications and it looked like it would flow better so decided not to mix it with water. Drizzled it over the top of the krausen so hopefully it will get mixed in well. Beer probably has around 10 points left to go.

A local brewery uses it in one of their IPAs and I was told they mix with de-aerated water and pump it into the fermenter to get proper dispersion. I am sure your method should work at our small scale. Let us know how it turns out!

 

[Dgallo]

A local brewery uses it in one of their IPAs and I was told they mix with de-aerated water and pump it into the fermenter to get proper dispersion. I am sure your method should work at our small scale. Let us know how it turns out!

My local brewery uses it as well. He does it through recirculating. He has a modified Sanke keg and he will have that purged and then with get the spectrum in the keg (not sure exactly how he is getting it in as I’ve never seen the process just had him discuss it), then transfer beer into it, agitate, and then recirculate.

he actually does this process with krausening from active fermenter to pre pitched fermenter to repitch the healthiest yeast into the new wort

 

[aaronm13]

My local brewery uses it as well. He does it through recirculating. He has a modified Sanke keg and he will have that purged and then with get the spectrum in the keg (not sure exactly how he is getting it in as I’ve never seen the process just had him discuss it), then transfer beer into it, agitate, and then recirculate.

he actually does this process with krausening from active fermenter to pre pitched fermenter to repitch the healthiest yeast into the new wort

That was roughly my plan on how to use Spectrum until I looked into it a bit more. I was going to transfer to my dry hop keg with the Spectrum in it but any details I could find on it (which was very little) said it's better to add at the tail end of fermentation. I'm as bit worried that the Spectrum will just lie in the krausen as it was so thick with the Verdant yeast. Fermentation seems done now so will leave for a few days to finish up then soft crash before transferring to my dry hop keg. Very curious and nervous as how this will turn out, mainly because of the price of the Spectrum.

 

[Dgallo]

That was roughly my plan on how to use Spectrum until I looked into it a bit more. I was going to transfer to my dry hop keg with the Spectrum in it but any details I could find on it (which was very little) said it's better to add at the tail end of fermentation. I'm as bit worried that the Spectrum will just lie in the krausen as it was so thick with the Verdant yeast. Fermentation seems done now so will leave for a few days to finish up then soft crash before transferring to my dry hop keg. Very curious and nervous as how this will turn out, mainly because of the price of the Spectrum.

I’ll ask him again just to make sure I didn’t misunderstand how he uses it. I’m assuming the suggest during late fermentation for O2 scrubbing just incase

 

[jpakstis]

Hi everyone - I recently got some of the Nectaron hops that SanPancho had divided up (thanks!). I’m about to brew up a fairly standard NEIPA recipe using Cosmic Punch. I have never used either Cosmic Punch nor Nectaron. I was wondering about hops you all would recommend to go with it. I have Mosaic and Galaxy on hand as well as hop extract for bittering.

I would expect the Galaxy would sort of “clash” with Nectaron. Would a recipe that highlights Nectaron with Mosaic in the background and using the hop extract for slight bittering be the trick? Or should I mix in a little bit of Galaxy too?

 

[Dgallo]

Hi everyone - I recently got some of the Nectaron hops that SanPancho had divided up (thanks!). I’m about to brew up a fairly standard NEIPA recipe using Cosmic Punch. I have never used either Cosmic Punch nor Nectaron. I was wondering about hops you all would recommend to go with it. I have Mosaic and Galaxy on hand as well as hop extract for bittering.

I would expect the Galaxy would sort of “clash” with Nectaron. Would a recipe that highlights Nectaron with Mosaic in the background and using the hop extract for slight bittering be the trick? Or should I mix in a little bit of Galaxy too?

Comic punch is a Thiol freeing yeast strain, so if looking to get the most out of it you need to use hops that are high in 3SH(calypso, saaz, cascade) in the mash so you can free some Thiol from both the hops and malt and then hops high 3MH or 3MHP (Citra, cascade, saaz) late on the hotside. there are other hops that have elevated levels of those compounds like simcoe, I just provided the ones that tend to test the highest.

Then when dryhoping, you can use what you want. Would be cool to dryhop with nectron and Nelson in my opinion

omega does a really good job outlining what this strain was developed to do. Here is their info and an addition resource that discussing thiols and precursors

https://omegayeast.com/news/cosmic-punch-new-thiol-boosting-strain
https://www.brewersassociation.org/...iol-Precursors-in-Different-Hop-Varieties.pdf

 

[R.A.I.D]

What should have been an evaluation of the effect of keg hops turned out to be an interesting tasting with an unexpected lesson.

I keged my last neipa this Wednesday though closed transfer from a dry hop pressure fermenter to the keg. In the fermentation flushed keg I had suspended 50 g Mosaic Cryo.

And today (Saturday) I wanted to evaluate the effect of the keg hop.
In the dry hop fermenter there where 1L beer left behind by the floating dip tube. Together with the 300 g dry hop sediments. Left for the last three days at 5-10 C.

I tapped a beer from the dip tube leftovers. Beer "A".

And a beer from the keg. Well carbonated, chilled, and stored at 2C for the last 3 days. Beer "B".

Both equally intence in taste and both with more aroma than the best commercial canned beers I can get. Equal bitterness.

Expecting the keg hopped version (B) to have the most aroma I was surprised to see that it was the opposite.

With closed eyes I picked out "A" again and again. Only using my nose and picking the one with the most aroma.

The only explanation I have is that this one liter of beer have extracted even more aroma from the hops the last three days. 1 L beer to 300 g used hops boosting the aroma.

Original I pitched the dry hop at 6 C. Increasing the temp to 20C during 9 hours (my mistake, I left the temp prope outside the temp controlled chamber, and the heating was on for half a day). Then chilled to 10 C and keept for a total of 3 day before cold crash at - 2C.

Yes 1L to 300 g hops are extreme. But clearly some aroma can be extracted with a longer contact time.

I think I will extend my dry hop time from 3 days to 6 days.

BTW
I found no effect of the keg hop in this tasting.

 

[aaronm13]

Then when dryhoping, you can use what you want. Would be cool to dryhop with nectron and Nelson in my opinion

I got more Nectaron recently and was thinking about doing Nelson along with it. What ratio of dry hop would you use with the two? Nectaron is a bit higher in total oils, 1.7ml/100g to 1.1ml/100g so maybe something like 60/40 Nelson-Nectaron?

 

[Dgallo]

I personally haven’t used nectron since it’s been 4337 so I won’t be much help here. The Nelson I have from last year is very potent. That said, if I were doing this for the first time, I would do 2:1 Ratio nectron to nelson

 

[aaronm13]

I personally haven’t used nectron since it’s been 4337 so I won’t be much help here. The Nelson I have from last year is very potent. That said, if I were doing this for the first time, I would do 2:1 Ratio nectron to nelson

Cool, thanks. So more Nectaron then. I just got some 21 Nelson from Yakima but haven't used it yet but the 20 batch was amazing.

 

[beervoid]

Cool, thanks. So more Nectaron then. I just got some 21 Nelson from Yakima but haven't used it yet but the 20 batch was amazing.

Why not go single hop and go the full nectaron experience to get a feel for it?

 

[jpakstis]

Comic punch is a Thiol freeing yeast strain, so if looking to get the most out of it you need to use hops that are high in 3SH(calypso, saaz, cascade) in the mash so you can free some Thiol from both the hops and malt and then hops high 3MH or 3MHP (Citra, cascade, saaz) late on the hotside. there are other hops that have elevated levels of those compounds like simcoe, I just provided the ones that tend to test the highest.

Thanks for the info! I’ve always wondered about mash hopping. I’m going to go out and get the types of hops you (and the literature you forwarded) recommend. Can you also recommend a mash hopping rate, ie how much I should add in a 5-6 gallon batch?

 

[aaronm13]

Why not go single hop and go the full nectaron experience to get a feel for it?

That's an option alright but I'm not really a fan of single hopped beers. Find them too one dimensional. I'm doing a Citra one at the moment but using T-90, Lupomax, Incognito and Spectrum so hopefully will have different layers of flavor.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for the info! I’ve always wondered about mash hopping. I’m going to go out and get the types of hops you (and the literature you forwarded) recommend. Can you also recommend a mash hopping rate, ie how much I should add in a 5-6 gallon batch?

Here is some more info for you.
http://scottjanish.com/the-locksmit...hops-and-phantasm-powder-to-thiol-drive-beer/

 

[secretlevel]

What should have been an evaluation of the effect of keg hops turned out to be an interesting tasting with an unexpected lesson.

I keged my last neipa this Wednesday though closed transfer from a dry hop pressure fermenter to the keg. In the fermentation flushed keg I had suspended 50 g Mosaic Cryo.

And today (Saturday) I wanted to evaluate the effect of the keg hop.
In the dry hop fermenter there where 1L beer left behind by the floating dip tube. Together with the 300 g dry hop sediments. Left for the last three days at 5-10 C.

I tapped a beer from the dip tube leftovers. Beer "A".

And a beer from the keg. Well carbonated, chilled, and stored at 2C for the last 3 days. Beer "B".

Both equally intence in taste and both with more aroma than the best commercial canned beers I can get. Equal bitterness.

Expecting the keg hopped version (B) to have the most aroma I was surprised to see that it was the opposite.

With closed eyes I picked out "A" again and again. Only using my nose and picking the one with the most aroma.

The only explanation I have is that this one liter of beer have extracted even more aroma from the hops the last three days. 1 L beer to 300 g used hops boosting the aroma.

Original I pitched the dry hop at 6 C. Increasing the temp to 20C during 9 hours (my mistake, I left the temp prope outside the temp controlled chamber, and the heating was on for half a day). Then chilled to 10 C and keept for a total of 3 day before cold crash at - 2C.

Yes 1L to 300 g hops are extreme. But clearly some aroma can be extracted with a longer contact time.

I think I will extend my dry hop time from 3 days to 6 days.

BTW
I found no effect of the keg hop in this tasting.

Interesting, so the conclusion would be that leaving beer on a bunch of hop matter added better aroma?

How long did Beer B spend on those hops before being transferred and at what temp?

Quality of those 50g of mosaic could also be a factor here...

 

[ihavenonickname]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers and I think this group of brewers is a rare group that has high standards for them. I recently changed brew systems to a Brewtools B40pro and its sweet in so many way BUT its mash recirculation is designed to splash the heck out of the mash and sparge and I'm starting to get bummed about it. Mash works like this:

I just tapped my most recent Hazy (first beer on this new system) and I'm not pleased with the appearance at all. Here it is under different lighting:

This beer used 2-row and some golden promise used cosmic punch (first use as well) calcluated SRM 4.8

Here are my previous hazies for reference, various recipes with different calculated SRM was 5.6 (used some pilsner and some dried wheat extract, verdant) or SRM 3.9 in another one
or

I feel quite confident this is not a cold side issue as that has stayed consistent with closed transfers, pressure crashing etc. and this darker beer looked like this from the very early samples.

So what do you think? I want to blame hot side aeration mucking up my color, but its certainly possible there are too many variables at play here for anyone to say. Anyone have use a similar system (that certainly oxidizes on the hot side mash) but is able to still get that nice bright yellow color?

 

[Dgallo]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers. I recently changed brew systems to a Brewtools B40pro and its sweet in so many way BUT its mash recirculation is designed to splash the **** out of the mash and sparge and I'm starting to get bummed about it. Mash works like this:View attachment 765760

I just tapped my most recent Hazy (first beer on this new system) and I'm not pleased with the appearance at all. Here it is under different lighting:
View attachment 765761View attachment 765762
This beer used 2-row and some golden promise used cosmic punch calcluated SRM 4.8

Here is my previous hazy for reference, various recipeds with calculated SRM was 5.6 (used some pilsner and some dried wheat extract, verdant) or SRM 3.9 in another one
View attachment 765763 orView attachment 765764

I feel quite confident this is not a cold side issue as that has stayed consistent with closed transfers, pressure crashing etc. and this darker beer looked like this from the very early samples.

So what do you think? I want to blame hot side aeration mucking up my color, but its certainly possible there are too many variables at play here for anyone to say. Anyone have use a similar system (that certainly oxidizes on the hot side mash) but is able to still get that nice bright yellow color?

If you believe in the LODO hotside brewers, they have a lot of anecdotals that show big chances in appearance and malt character once they made the switch especially those who make light lagers. I have went full LODO yet as my system really isn’t convenient for premash/hotside low O2

 

[Csesock0131]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers. I recently changed brew systems to a Brewtools B40pro and its sweet in so many way BUT its mash recirculation is designed to splash the **** out of the mash and sparge and I'm starting to get bummed about it. Mash works like this:View attachment 765760

I just tapped my most recent Hazy (first beer on this new system) and I'm not pleased with the appearance at all. Here it is under different lighting:
View attachment 765761View attachment 765762
This beer used 2-row and some golden promise used cosmic punch calcluated SRM 4.8

Here is my previous hazy for reference, various recipeds with calculated SRM was 5.6 (used some pilsner and some dried wheat extract, verdant) or SRM 3.9 in another one
View attachment 765763 orView attachment 765764

I feel quite confident this is not a cold side issue as that has stayed consistent with closed transfers, pressure crashing etc. and this darker beer looked like this from the very early samples.

So what do you think? I want to blame hot side aeration mucking up my color, but its certainly possible there are too many variables at play here for anyone to say. Anyone have use a similar system (that certainly oxidizes on the hot side mash) but is able to still get that nice bright yellow color?

The pictures don’t lie. There is a distinct color difference. However, there are so many variables with the different grain bill, yeast, and system. I would use a grain bill that you are comfortable and familiar with to compare.

I use a vorlauf attachment as well as a sparge arm that tend to splash more than I like but I’ve never had that be the cause.

Does the beer taste oxidized?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers and I think this group of brewers is a rare group that has high standards for them.

I am not 100% sure where I land on HSA or LODO. A message that I tend to see is: "there is LODO-brewing, and there is everything else." Basically that if you are not taking steps to remove oxygen, then your water/wort is near saturated with oxygen so extra splashing does not make much difference. On the other hand, I have heard podcasts from people at Sierra Nevada about taking steps to reduce HSA...then on the third hand, there are systems like this and the popular Clawhammer Supply that basically spray the wort during the entire mash.

 

[ihavenonickname]

If you are not taking steps to remove oxygen, then your water/wort is near saturated with oxygen so extra splashing does not make much difference.

yeah that's an interesting way to think about it. I'd love to get more info on that, the key factor in my mind is that at 150F oxidation reactions are happening much more quickly than at chilled or cold temps and at the same time the DO has not been removed like it has at boiling temps. I'm not sure where I land on LODO either, but its generally not something I swear by because we have all had so many beers that don't make a big deal of HSA. But these latest results have me wondering. I would like to see some results from people with their bright creamy yellow color achieved on a system like the brewtools, clawhammer. Honestly tho I do hear about those brewers struggling with oxidation so I have my doubts.

 

[beervoid]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers and I think this group of brewers is a rare group that has high standards for them. I recently changed brew systems to a Brewtools B40pro and its sweet in so many way BUT its mash recirculation is designed to splash the heck out of the mash and sparge and I'm starting to get bummed about it. Mash works like this:View attachment 765760

I just tapped my most recent Hazy (first beer on this new system) and I'm not pleased with the appearance at all. Here it is under different lighting:
View attachment 765761View attachment 765762
This beer used 2-row and some golden promise used cosmic punch (first use as well) calcluated SRM 4.8

Here are my previous hazies for reference, various recipes with different calculated SRM was 5.6 (used some pilsner and some dried wheat extract, verdant) or SRM 3.9 in another one
View attachment 765763 orView attachment 765764

I feel quite confident this is not a cold side issue as that has stayed consistent with closed transfers, pressure crashing etc. and this darker beer looked like this from the very early samples.

So what do you think? I want to blame hot side aeration mucking up my color, but its certainly possible there are too many variables at play here for anyone to say. Anyone have use a similar system (that certainly oxidizes on the hot side mash) but is able to still get that nice bright yellow color?

Try turning down the power when you boil. Probably got more caramelisation. Also boil PH effects this.

 

[secretlevel]

Hey guys, so I've been thinking about Imperial A20 and had some interesting thoughts. I love A24, but I just don't know how much flavor Conan part contributes there. Conan beers like my local Vermont IPA's and Alchemist beers aren't exactly ester-forward. There may be some peach in Focal Banger, but it's very subtle and almost clean. This would imply that most of those tropical esters are coming from A20, right?

My one big problem with A24 is the composition shift if I harvest it, as I do with most of my strains.

 

[secretlevel]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers and I think this group of brewers is a rare group that has high standards for them. I recently changed brew systems to a Brewtools B40pro and its sweet in so many way BUT its mash recirculation is designed to splash the heck out of the mash and sparge and I'm starting to get bummed about it. Mash works like this:View attachment 765760

I just tapped my most recent Hazy (first beer on this new system) and I'm not pleased with the appearance at all. Here it is under different lighting:
View attachment 765761View attachment 765762
This beer used 2-row and some golden promise used cosmic punch (first use as well) calcluated SRM 4.8

Here are my previous hazies for reference, various recipes with different calculated SRM was 5.6 (used some pilsner and some dried wheat extract, verdant) or SRM 3.9 in another one
View attachment 765763 orView attachment 765764

I feel quite confident this is not a cold side issue as that has stayed consistent with closed transfers, pressure crashing etc. and this darker beer looked like this from the very early samples.

So what do you think? I want to blame hot side aeration mucking up my color, but its certainly possible there are too many variables at play here for anyone to say. Anyone have use a similar system (that certainly oxidizes on the hot side mash) but is able to still get that nice bright yellow color?

I think Golden Promise will always give you darker color than 2-row/Pils and adjuncts, I'd just stick to those and if you run into the same issue, then yes, maybe it's the process. Malts aren't always on point as far as color goes, some batches are darker than others, you could have just gotten a slightly darker than intended batch of GP.

 

[mijclarke]

I just did a batch with golden promise and my color is a bit darker orange than I anticipated but doesn’t taste oxidized. It does look a little lighter than the OP’s picture but mine is also more opaque. Worth noting I used 2 1/3 cups of raw turbinado sugar crystals so not sure if that would darken it a bit.
As for hot side aeration. On brew day after a 90 min mash I ended up with 7.5 gallons pre-boil on my 120V robobrew system. I changed plans and poured it into a separate kettle and threw it on the propane burner. I then preceded to have a brief boil over and after a vigorous boil got it down to 5-5.5 gallons. Then over cooled the wort with immersion chiller down to 135 bc I needed to whirlpool around 169 so I put it back on the burner to get it to 170 and did a 15 min whirlpool. It seems like I had a lot of hot side aeration but my final beer tasted very good. Was extremely careful with oxidation after pitching yeast.

 

[mijclarke]

Not the best picture quality but here’s a pic from my IG

 

[R.A.I.D]

Interesting, so the conclusion would be that leaving beer on a bunch of hop matter added better aroma?

How long did Beer B spend on those hops before being transferred and at what temp?

Quality of those 50g of mosaic could also be a factor here...

Beer B spend 3 days at approximately 10 C (including a short 1/2 day spike to 20C, due to me misplacing the temperature sensor), followed by 4 days at - 2C.

My point is that there are still more goodness to extract from the dry hop if you follow this schedule. And more time at 10C will extract more aroma.

 

[beervoid]

Beer B spend 3 days at approximately 10 C (including a short 1/2 day spike to 20C, due to me misplacing the temperature sensor), followed by 4 days at - 2C.

My point is that there are still more goodness to extract from the dry hop if you follow this schedule. And more time at 10C will extract more aroma.

I think your keg A beer was most likely more aromatic cause it was pulling beer from right above the hop debris which was still very much full of hop oils.
I can only Imagine what extra the pros can pull out with a centrifuge.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I personally haven’t used nectron since it’s been 4337 so I won’t be much help here. The Nelson I have from last year is very potent. That said, if I were doing this for the first time, I would do 2:1 Ratio nectron to nelson

@HopsAreGood tried that combo back in 2021:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/post-9074797

 

[HopsAreGood]

@HopsAreGood tried that combo back in 2021:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/post-9074797

Yeah, that beer was awesome. Really liked that one. I actually just dropped 10 ounces of Nectaron into a 6.5% beer about an hour ago. Going to dry hop for 48 hours at 58, then crash and transfer.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I got some of the nectaron also, haven't started thinking about what to pair it with til now. I'll probably use citra or mosaic hotside, maybe some Idaho7 as well, nectaron in the whirlpool and then heavy in the dryhop, paired with something just not sure yet. I wont be brewing that batch for a few weeks so I got time to think/dream about it.

 

[secretlevel]

Hey guys, so I've been thinking about Imperial A20 and had some interesting thoughts. I love A24, but I just don't know how much flavor Conan part contributes there. Conan beers like my local Vermont IPA's and Alchemist beers aren't exactly ester-forward IMO. There may be some peach in Focal Banger, but it's very subtle and almost clean. This would imply that most of those tropical esters are coming from A20, right?

My one big problem with A24 is the composition shift if I harvest it, as I do with most of my strains. Has anyone brewed with A20?

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’ve used the white labs version of sach trois - incredibly fruity with pineapple and citrus. Also had a commercial example called “trois story” locally. It’s delicious, a fruity crowd pleaser - but it’s a distinct fruity funky flavor that I thought lacked a little beer flavor balance. Certainly worth a trial.

 

[Dgallo]

View attachment 765897

I found a20 alone only citrus forward. No stone fruit. It also produce a thinner beer than the blend as the STA1 gene has more of a noticeable effect. All that said I it’s very good. Might be interesting to make your own blend with it and something with less attenuation like LAIII

 

[secretlevel]

I found a20 alone only citrus forward. No stone fruit. It also produce a thinner beer than the blend as the STA1 gene has more of a noticeable effect. All that said I it’s very good. Might be interesting to make your own blend with it and something with less attenuation like LAIII

Sweet, thanks guys! I'm definitely planning on mashing around 155-156F to finish in a true NEIPA fashion. Will report back soon.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Hey guys, so I've been thinking about Imperial A20 and had some interesting thoughts. I love A24, but I just don't know how much flavor Conan part contributes there. Conan beers like my local Vermont IPA's and Alchemist beers aren't exactly ester-forward. There may be some peach in Focal Banger, but it's very subtle and almost clean. This would imply that most of those tropical esters are coming from A20, right?

My one big problem with A24 is the composition shift if I harvest it, as I do with most of my strains.

I overbuild my liquid starters and harvest on the front of brewing instead of from the fermenter. I am fine with using a little extra DME to accomplish this as I just like the simplicity and ease better than harvesting after the fact from a fermenter that has trub, yeast, and hops in it. Ive never done it though. I am pretty confident that with 3 generations of A24 harvested from overbuilt starters you would never notice the difference in the final product. I would also say that performance during fermentation is roughly equivalent too. The key is when harvesting from overbuilt starters is to make sure when you take the flask off the stir plate, to keep it moving constantly until you harvest to mason jars for storing. At least in my mind its important because it keeps the starter as homogenous as possible. I have never tried to push the envelope in how many generations I can go before you see/detect a noticeable difference in the yeast since it is a blend after all. But again, I think that if you harvest on the front end of this, A24is solid for 3 generations.

When you harvest it on the back end, do you notice a difference in fermentation performance and/or the overall beer even if just comparing a fresh pack vs 2nd generation?

 

[Fergal]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers and I think this group of brewers is a rare group that has high standards for them. I recently changed brew systems to a Brewtools B40pro and its sweet in so many way BUT its mash recirculation is designed to splash the heck out of the mash and sparge and I'm starting to get bummed about it. Mash works like this:View attachment 765760

I just tapped my most recent Hazy (first beer on this new system) and I'm not pleased with the appearance at all. Here it is under different lighting:
View attachment 765761View attachment 765762
This beer used 2-row and some golden promise used cosmic punch (first use as well) calcluated SRM 4.8

Here are my previous hazies for reference, various recipes with different calculated SRM was 5.6 (used some pilsner and some dried wheat extract, verdant) or SRM 3.9 in another one
View attachment 765763 orView attachment 765764

I feel quite confident this is not a cold side issue as that has stayed consistent with closed transfers, pressure crashing etc. and this darker beer looked like this from the very early samples.

So what do you think? I want to blame hot side aeration mucking up my color, but its certainly possible there are too many variables at play here for anyone to say. Anyone have use a similar system (that certainly oxidizes on the hot side mash) but is able to still get that nice bright yellow color?

Someone mentioned it before, but I would look at the boil intensity. Not sure on the watt density on the Brewtools system but I would imagine having those coils in direct contact with the wort might increase the maillard/caramelization a bit? Maybe a shorter boil might help?

 

[wepeeler]

I overbuild my liquid starters and harvest on the front of brewing instead of from the fermenter. I am fine with using a little extra DME to accomplish this as I just like the simplicity and ease better than harvesting after the fact from a fermenter that has trub, yeast, and hops in it. Ive never done it though. I am pretty confident that with 3 generations of A24 harvested from overbuilt starters you would never notice the difference in the final product. I would also say that performance during fermentation is roughly equivalent too. The key is when harvesting from overbuilt starters is to make sure when you take the flask off the stir plate, to keep it moving constantly until you harvest to mason jars for storing. At least in my mind its important because it keeps the starter as homogenous as possible. I have never tried to push the envelope in how many generations I can go before you see/detect a noticeable difference in the yeast since it is a blend after all. But again, I think that if you harvest on the front end of this, A24is solid for 3 generations.

When you harvest it on the back end, do you notice a difference in fermentation performance and/or the overall beer even if just comparing a fresh pack vs 2nd generation?

I do the same thing for nearly all my yeasts when harvesting. I use 20oz plastic soda bottles with a screw on cap. I barely turn the cap and stick in the fridge for a few days. You want the top to vent, as a buildup of CO2 can damage the yeast. After a few days of cold crashing you can either just screw the cap on tightly or decant the liquid first and then screw on the top. Been doing this for a few years now and haven't run into issues. I've gone as far as 5 generations without seeing a major difference in performance. The only difference is clarity in final product, but that's more an issue of certain yeast strains than harvesting issues ie Wyeast 2565 is notorious for not floccing in later generations.