New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[TBA]

Lots of great info in this thread! I am always looking to improve my NEIPAs and think mixing yeasts is the next topic. I have S-33, US-05, Verdant and Nottingham currently, can get others. My question is about repitching. Can you do it when you have a mixed pitch? Would the ratio change? How many repitches can you get? I usually top crop, if that matters.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Lots of great info in this thread! I am always looking to improve my NEIPAs and think mixing yeasts is the next topic. I have S-33, US-05, Verdant and Nottingham currently, can get others. My question is about repitching. Can you do it when you have a mixed pitch? Would the ratio change? How many repitches can you get? I usually top crop, if that matters.

The ratio will change towards the fastest fermenting yeast. If you want your initial ratio you should not repitch.

 

[Dgallo]

The ratio will change towards the fastest fermenting yeast. If you want your initial ratio you should not repitch.

Technically greatest floccuating

 

[jturman35]

Sip of Sunshine clone in the books. I know it’s not a NEIPA but I’m trying my first keg hop and using fermentation to purge the two kegs. The keg next to the conical will have 3oz of Citra and the far right is the serving keg. The only thing I don’t like is my DH keg has a floating dip tube so I’m using the keg hop spider on this one. I like the idea of running my diptube through the hop spider and throwing hops in loose but my kegs all tied up.

How long are you guys keg hopping at room temp?

 

[couchsending]

Sip of Sunshine clone in the books. I know it’s not a NEIPA but I’m trying my first keg hop and using fermentation to purge the two kegs. The keg next to the conical will have 3oz of Citra and the far right is the serving keg. The only thing I don’t like is my DH keg has a floating dip tube so I’m using the keg hop spider on this one. I like the idea of running my diptube through the hop spider and throwing hops in loose but my kegs all tied up.

How long are you guys keg hopping at room temp?

As long as it takes hop creep to stop and the beer is negative for VDKs. Could be 2 days could be 9...when dry hopping warm always test for Diacetyl before cooling

 

[BeerFst]

Gelatin to help drop polyphenols/hop burn?

Dry hopped with 4 oz Citra, 4 oz Vic secret, split between two apps. Both at 60, which I slower than my usual dry hop temp.

Cold crashed for a few days to 58 before hand.

Fermented with A24.

It’s been two weeks on gas in the keezer and almost no change in the mouth coating astringency.

Looks pretty tho.

Update post gelatin. It’s been 5 days at 31 after adding the gelatin and the stringency has reduced slightly but not altogether gone. It’s not quite as immediate as the beer was a week
Ago, so I’ll call that a win. At this point it’s more like a west coast ipa, similar bitterness but not quite as “clean” as stone. I assume that’s from the high cohumulone of the Vic secret. Partially thinking the whirlpool just added a lot more than brewers friend predicted. I apparently didn’t note my actual whirlpool temp, but my target was 170 (not adding heat or actually whirlpooling, just steep) so it was probably right there if not slightly below. Predicted ibu was low 40s but tasting more like 70, Assuming the stone comparison holds.

Also helping the west coast comparison is I overshot my og and ended up around 1.010. It doesn’t register as totally dry though, likely driven by the high chloride.

And the most interesting, though perhaps slightly expected, aspect is the beer has actually cleared considerably. Obviously the gelatin helped there but it also suggests to me the initial haze was yeast derived and not polyphenol derived, as it should have been. As I notes in my previous post, I had some unexpected referm despite dry hopping at 60. @Dgallo pointed out that Conan is still active around 60 so we’ll call it that. Could also be the less flocculent a20 half of the a24 I used but considering other brewers on here that regularly use a24 aren’t seeing clearing over time, I don’t necessarily think that was it. Might also have been the 45% wheat (30%malted, 15% flaked) but again, seems unlikely.

On the plus side, 3 weeks from kegging, the hip aroma is much stronger now. Might be from some clearing but also probably just normal age. Classic Citra tropical/fruit is in the background with an interesting strawberry up front, assuming from the VS.

In the end i only have 2-3 oz of Vic secret left, which I will reserve for dry hop only (no whirlpool next time). This was also my last harvest of A24, and I’ll be switching back to London 3. A24 was good but didn’t knock my socks off, and for whatever reason was a little less predictable in terms of fg on the three beers I used it on. I’d use a24 again but time to switch it back to where it started.

Pics for reference. Same glass.

 

[crusader1612]

Update post gelatin. It’s been 5 days at 31 after adding the gelatin and the stringency has reduced slightly but not altogether gone. It’s not quite as immediate as the beer was a week
Ago, so I’ll call that a win. At this point it’s more like a west coast ipa, similar bitterness but not quite as “clean” as stone. I assume that’s from the high cohumulone of the Vic secret. Partially thinking the whirlpool just added a lot more than brewers friend predicted. I apparently didn’t note my actual whirlpool temp, but my target was 170 (not adding heat or actually whirlpooling, just steep) so it was probably right there if not slightly below. Predicted ibu was low 40s but tasting more like 70, Assuming the stone comparison holds.

Also helping the west coast comparison is I overshot my og and ended up around 1.010. It doesn’t register as totally dry though, likely driven by the high chloride.

And the most interesting, though perhaps slightly expected, aspect is the beer has actually cleared considerably. Obviously the gelatin helped there but it also suggests to me the initial haze was yeast derived and not polyphenol derived, as it should have been. As I notes in my previous post, I had some unexpected referm despite dry hopping at 60. @Dgallo pointed out that Conan is still active around 60 so we’ll call it that. Could also be the less flocculent a20 half of the a24 I used but considering other brewers on here that regularly use a24 aren’t seeing clearing over time, I don’t necessarily think that was it. Might also have been the 45% wheat (30%malted, 15% flaked) but again, seems unlikely.

On the plus side, 3 weeks from kegging, the hip aroma is much stronger now. Might be from some clearing but also probably just normal age. Classic Citra tropical/fruit is in the background with an interesting strawberry up front, assuming from the VS.

In the end i only have 2-3 oz of Vic secret left, which I will reserve for dry hop only (no whirlpool next time). This was also my last harvest of A24, and I’ll be switching back to London 3. A24 was good but didn’t knock my socks off, and for whatever reason was a little less predictable in terms of fg on the three beers I used it on. I’d use a24 again but time to switch it back to where it started.

Pics for reference. Same glass.

interesting.
Are you sure you're not talking about Hop Burn?
That would make more sense to me.

 

[BeerFst]

interesting.
Are you sure you're not talking about Hop Burn?
That would make more sense to me.

It’s still somewhat possible but given the brand new clarity of the beer I think it less likely. Then again I don’t recall my fg hydro sample being so intense, but again I seem to have omitted it from my notes for whatever reason.

Initially the beer was definitely all hop burn and the goal of the gelatin was to see if I could tame it. Hop burn hasn’t been a problem with any previous neipa I’ve made including another A24 beer, mostly Galaxy. (Actually the sister beer to this current one, , 50% oats instead of wheat). This VS beer was also dry hopped at 60 where I typically prefer 65.

On the assumption my previous haze was yeast derived, perhaps the improvement in the beer I’ve noticed is just the lack of yeast in suspension. And considering perm haze is polyphenol derived and VS has plenty of it, it might very well still be hop burn and gelatin won’t drop it out

 

[secretlevel]

This was also my last harvest of A24, and I’ll be switching back to London 3. A24 was good but didn’t knock my socks off, and for whatever reason was a little less predictable in terms of fg on the three beers I used it on. I’d use a24 again but time to switch it back to where it started.

Pics for reference. Same glass.

Just a note on A24 - you can't really harvest it and reuse it like most yeasts because it's a blend of two strains. One will become more dominant than another as soon as you top crop or decant your starter. I usually get a fresh pack, make a starter, and split into two batches without ever decanting. Otherwise the character does diminish rapidly, it tastes like Conan usually takes over.

 

[eugles]

Just a note on A24 - you can't really harvest it and reuse it like most yeasts because it's a blend of two strains. One will become more dominant than another as soon as you top crop or decant your starter. I usually get a fresh pack, make a starter, and split into two batches without ever decanting. Otherwise the character does diminish rapidly, it tastes like Conan usually takes over.

Curious about decanting...I’ve always decanted my starters...are you just not decanting a24 or all of yours?

 

[BeerFst]

Just a note on A24 - you can't really harvest it and reuse it like most yeasts because it's a blend of two strains. One will become more dominant than another as soon as you top crop or decant your starter. I usually get a fresh pack, make a starter, and split into two batches without ever decanting. Otherwise the character does diminish rapidly, it tastes like Conan usually takes over.

Yeah. And I actually think it was you And I discussing this last year if not two years ago now.

This was overbuilt starter, never decanted. Neither in the flask or in the mason jar I pitched into the next starter. This was the third gen of that so definitely could have been some drift. Not to mention this last sample had been sitting in the fridge for a year, so who knows what might have happened in the ratio.

Of the three beers I had 80, 67, 84 apparent attenuation, with 1.052, 1.062 and 1.066 og’s.

Second beer was the 50% oats so maybe that was it, maybe something with pH or mash temp...not sure

 

[secretlevel]

Curious about decanting...I’ve always decanted my starters...are you just not decanting a24 or all of yours?

Nah, just A24 because it's a blend. I'm honestly not even convinced on making a starter with this yeast as one of the strains will start to ferment faster meaning that you'll be left with the higher volume of the quicker strain.

 

[NSMikeD]

I took a gravity reading and began to cold crash today. FG was lower than anticipate. I’ll add that to my post mort but I’m consistent with overshooting final gravity. No grassy nor garlic hop burn so far which is pleasing. Aroma is a strong orange and the taste is a pronounced grapefruit tangerine. It was like drinking a liquid tangerine rind. Love it. It’s still a bit muddy tan. Curious to see after the cold crash if it’s has an orange hue or more like straw.
Here are my brew father numbers so far.

 

[stickyfinger]

Are you saying that I can get a better cone to form if I world pool prior to chilling? I use an immersion chiller so I don’t really have an option to transfer clean but hot wort.

yeah, just b/c there will be so much less matter in there. however, i wouldn't worry about it honestly.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Planning on a batch this weekend, looking to get that real bright pop on this one. I will also be using azacca as a large portion of my hops as I have a ton of them on hand that I need to use up, pairing them with mosaic hot side and probably galaxy cold side. Mash will be as follows:

70% 2row
12.5% white wheat
12.5% malted oats
5% dextrose

Ca - 85
Mg - 13
Na - 96
Cl - 220
So4 - 58

 

[beervoid]

Planning on a batch this weekend, looking to get that real bright pop on this one. I will also be using azacca as a large portion of my hops as I have a ton of them on hand that I need to use up, pairing them with mosaic hot side and probably galaxy cold side. Mash will be as follows:

70% 2row
12.5% white wheat
12.5% malted oats
5% dextrose

Ca - 85
Mg - 13
Na - 96
Cl - 220
So4 - 58

Azacca is very low on the surviveables chart from yakima chief, I would not waste them hotside.
Its a very delicate but nice hop to be supportive in a dryhop if good quality imho.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Azacca is very low on the surviveables chart from yakima chief, I would not waste them hotside.
Its a very delicate but nice hop to be supportive in a dryhop if good quality imho.

I see what your saying but I also read this from their website:
Azacca™ Hop Profile
Previously called ADHA-483, Azacca® was named after the Haitian god of agriculture. It is big in Alpha Acids (14-16%) and has a bright and refreshing aroma with juicy mango, tropical fruits, and citrus. Azacca is a dual-purpose hop that produces sensational single-hopped beers. Try whirlpooling with Azacca after flameout to maximize the juicy flavors and sweet aroma.

So my intention was to use it as whirlpool beside mosiac and dry hop beside galaxy. Also a small 60min bittering charge of simcoe. But now you have me wondering...

 

[HopsAreGood]

I see what your saying but I also read this from their website:
Azacca™ Hop Profile
Previously called ADHA-483, Azacca® was named after the Haitian god of agriculture. It is big in Alpha Acids (14-16%) and has a bright and refreshing aroma with juicy mango, tropical fruits, and citrus. Azacca is a dual-purpose hop that produces sensational single-hopped beers. Try whirlpooling with Azacca after flameout to maximize the juicy flavors and sweet aroma.

So my intention was to use it as whirlpool beside mosiac and dry hop beside galaxy. Also a small 60min bittering charge of simcoe. But now you have me wondering...

Azacca is a cool hop but in my experience it doesn’t really drive the bus. It’s a great complimentary hop to support others, but on its own it’s not quite as punchy as some of the other well known hops. That being said, if you have a bunch of it definitely go ahead and use it and see how it turns out. I’ve never actually used it as the feature hop, so I’d be interested to see how it turns out.

 

[beervoid]

Founders has a single hop Azzacca beer, its allright but nothing spectacular imho

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I typically use citra as the "bus driver" I just don't currently have any. I do have mosaic so maybe Ill let that take the lead instead and use the azacca as the secondary.

 

[Beerdrinker85]

I never had good experience with Azzaca. Even fresh at large scale or for complimentary. I think this hop is overrated about the description so I gave up on this one.

 

[ChiknNutz]

Disappointed in my third batch based on the OPs recipe. The first one I did as a single IPA, the second I turned into a double IPA. Both of those were excellent. This last one I went back to a single IPA and actually hit my numbers damn near perfectly. Granted, I brewed it right about 2 weeks ago, but have tasted it twice and am so far really unimpressed. By unimpressed I mean like almost none of the flavor hops are coming thru. Really the only thing I did different was add in some Clarity Ferm as I am trying it out on all my beers as my wife is gluten sensitive. I do closed transfers from fermenter to keg. Here is my recipe. Really no idea aside from maybe it just needs more time to mature in the keg?

 

[tld6008]

Look at what you did differently, you named one thing but there must be something else (different hop batch?). I have never heard of clarity ferm. I have made that recipe 4 times and it came out the same every time other that a little difference in mouth feel. Never used SO4 on that brew, but use it all the time on others.
Good Luck

 

[nebulabrewing]

My house hazy is now soft-crashing for my second dryhop. First time brewing it on my new 3v system.

This batch is Azacca, Bru-1, and heavy on El Dorado. Fifth gen 1318 yeast. Going to keg it this weekend and also brew a cream ale.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Disappointed in my third batch based on the OPs recipe. The first one I did as a single IPA, the second I turned into a double IPA. Both of those were excellent. This last one I went back to a single IPA and actually hit my numbers damn near perfectly. Granted, I brewed it right about 2 weeks ago, but have tasted it twice and am so far really unimpressed. By unimpressed I mean like almost none of the flavor hops are coming thru. Really the only thing I did different was add in some Clarity Ferm as I am trying it out on all my beers as my wife is gluten sensitive. I do closed transfers from fermenter to keg. Here is my recipe. Really no idea aside from maybe it just needs more time to mature in the keg?
View attachment 725870

If you brewed this 2 weeks ago, I am assuming that you just kegged it? For my schedule, Im usually kegging at about 14 days post-pitching. Anyways, even though the processes were the same except clarity ferm (Ive never used it), did anything potentially happen on the cold side which might have lead to oxidation? I see you do closed transfers which is great, but was just thinking (not knowing what type of fermenter you have) perhaps something on the cold side occurred that didn't on the first two batches. If the hops aren't coming through, is that in aroma or flavor or both? Does it look oxidized i.e. brownish?

 

[R.A.I.D]

Very interesting read from Scott Janish.

He writes: "This guide is a collection of what I have learned to date through the research, experience on the commercial scale, and tips from other experienced experts in the brewing industry"

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hop-best...s-a-guide-for-process-and-recipe-development/
We are talking a lot about dry hopping post fermentation, while he points out, that some hops (like Sabro) might benefit from dry hopping during fermentation.
He also address dry hopping duration and temperature and a lot more.

 

[skleice]

Very interesting read from Scott Janish.

He writes: "This guide is a collection of what I have learned to date through the research, experience on the commercial scale, and tips from other experienced experts in the brewing industry"

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hop-best...s-a-guide-for-process-and-recipe-development/
We are talking a lot about dry hopping post fermentation, while he points out, that some hops (like Sabro) might benefit from dry hopping during fermentation.
He also address dry hopping duration and temperature and a lot more.

Great read, TX for sharing! I've already been doing a lot of these things due to the great posters in this thread (thank y'all). Great to see the detailed break down of all of this info.

The main issue for me is agitation. I ferment in a corny and then soft crash the yeast before dh. But, I'm scared to agitate because I don't want to kick up all of the yeast. I've been dh and 59° to discouraged the hops from dropping to quickly.

Any other suggestions?

Also, he mentions whirlpooling at 180°, but never mentions hops earlier in the boil. Does Sapwood only whirlpool & DH?

 

[R.A.I.D]

The main issue for me is agitation. I ferment in a corny and then soft crash the yeast before dh. But, I'm scared to agitate because I don't want to kick up all of the yeast. I've been dh and 59° to discouraged the hops from dropping to quickly.

Any other suggestions?

I think you need to get the beer off the yeast if you want agitation. E.g. by transferring the beer to a fermentation purged dry hop corny.

 

[secretlevel]

Very interesting read from Scott Janish.

He writes: "This guide is a collection of what I have learned to date through the research, experience on the commercial scale, and tips from other experienced experts in the brewing industry"

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hop-best...s-a-guide-for-process-and-recipe-development/
We are talking a lot about dry hopping post fermentation, while he points out, that some hops (like Sabro) might benefit from dry hopping during fermentation.
He also address dry hopping duration and temperature and a lot more.

I've actually used Sabro on day 5 of fermentation in my recent batch and I can't say that I was impressed. I got a bunch of hop burn and really not much coconut. Maybe that's too soon in fermentation though, I want to try it on day 8 or so.

I think this piece is really interesting and am planning to experiment with in the next batch:

- Consider adding additional acid (like phosphoric acid) to the kettle (targeting 4.8–4.9 post-boil pH) when brewing higher alcohol and highly dry hopped DIPAs to counter dry hop pH rise for better drinkability. Post-fermentation acid adjustment to 4.2–4.4 pH can also help.

This is something that I've seen @couchsending suggest and have seen on Simple's blog. He swears by it! 9% Nelson Hazy IPA – Post Boil pH Adjustments?

 

[R.A.I.D]

you can expect around a 0.036 pH increase at a dry hopping rate of ~3 pounds per barrel

Doesn't sound of much of an increase. 3 pounds per barrel equals 11 g/L. That is give or take the same as my normal dry hop rates (10-15 g/L). So I wonder if I should be concerned about the pH increase at all.

Consider adding additional acid (like phosphoric acid). (...) Post-fermentation acid adjustment to 4.2–4.4 pH can also help.

I wonder why he recommends phosphoric acid. I do a post fermentation addition of ascorbic acid and citric acid because of its antioxidants properties. This does also lower the pH. But I havn't measured the pH of the final beer.