New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[skleice]

I will quickly chime in regarding boil/whirlpool importance. I recently kegged a NZ Pilsner that used only 3.75 oz in total;
- 0.4 oz at 60
-0.8 oz at 10
-0.8 oz at 5
-1.0 oz whirlpool at 170 for 30
-0.75oz dryhop

this beer is hugely aromatic and full of flavor. Granted it’s a lager and cleanly fermented so it can showcase hops better but I’m stunned with how bold the beer is. Those who’ve tried it so far genuinely think I’m lying when I tell them how little hops are in the beer, especially when I mention the measly 0.75 oz dryhop. My biggest take away from this beer is that hotside hops can have a huge impact.

Ive entered it in a competition, so I’ll what the certificated judges pick up on the hops. I will post the score sheets on here regardless.

picture Is for those who haven’t seen a clear beer in a while lol
View attachment 719665

You've motivated me to try one of these. What type of water profile did you go with?

 

[hopfenstopfen]

You've motivated me to try one of these. What type of water profile did you go with?

Just FYI west coast pils. No quite what you were asking for, but should provide some useful info.

 

[Dgallo]

You've motivated me to try one of these. What type of water profile did you go with?

I build from my tap but here was what it adjusted to.

Ca - 88
Mg - 9
Cl - 100
Na - 35
So4 - 82

@hopfenstopfen though the styles are very similar, WC pils are drier and crisper than NZ. They also tend to be higher in ibus as for the NZ pils, the ibu cut off is around 40. Here are the big take always from the style guidelines according to the BJCP

Flavor
Medium to high hop bitterness, cleanly bitter not harsh, most prominent in the balance and lasting into the aftertaste. Medium to high hop flavor with similar characteristics as the aroma (tropical, citrus, gooseberry, melon, grass). Medium to medium-low malt flavor, grainy-sweet, bready, or crackery. Clean fermentation profile (fermentation esters are a fault). Dry to off-dry with a clean, smooth finish and bitter but not harsh aftertaste. The malt may suggest an impression of sweetness but the beer should not be literally sweet. The finish may be dry but not seem crisp or biting. The balance should always be bitter, but the malt flavor must be noticeable.

Overall Impression
A pale, dry, golden-colored, cleanly-fermented beer showcasing the characteristic tropical, citrusy, fruity, grassy New Zealand-type hops. Medium body, soft mouthfeel, and smooth palate and finish, with a neutral to bready malt base provide the support for this very drinkable, refreshing, hop-forward beer

These are the reason I built the water profile this way.

 

[couchsending]

I will quickly chime in regarding boil/whirlpool importance. I recently kegged a NZ Pilsner that used only 3.75 oz in total;
- 0.4 oz at 60
-0.8 oz at 10
-0.8 oz at 5
-1.0 oz whirlpool at 170 for 30
-0.75oz dryhop

this beer is hugely aromatic and full of flavor. Granted it’s a lager and cleanly fermented so it can showcase hops better but I’m stunned with how bold the beer is. Those who’ve tried it so far genuinely think I’m lying when I tell them how little hops are in the beer, especially when I mention the measly 0.75 oz dryhop. My biggest take away from this beer is that hotside hops can have a huge impact.

Ive entered it in a competition, so I’ll what the certificated judges pick up on the hops. I will post the score sheets on here regardless.

picture Is for those who haven’t seen a clear beer in a while lol
View attachment 719665

You wonder how much of it has to do with the much colder and slower fermentation and preserving hop aromatics? Or just the properties of lager yeast and specific hop compounds.

I’ll recommend it again but if you haven’t tried making a lager with any of the American Noble versions of Citra, Cascade, Mosaic, Simcoe is highly recommend it. Especially the cascade. It is mind blowing to be how much hop aroma comes through with the last addition only being 1-2oz at 10 minutes left in the boil.

 

[aaronm13]

So single or double dry hop, the the consensus? Also more evidence of more hops doesn't always mean more aroma and flavor

Impact Double Dry Hopping Has On Dry Hop Saturation | The Brü Club xBmt Series

 

[beervoid]

So single or double dry hop, the the consensus? Also more evidence of more hops doesn't always mean more aroma and flavor

Impact Double Dry Hopping Has On Dry Hop Saturation | The Brü Club xBmt Series

1 - higher dry hopping rate impact is mostly seen with longer aging
2 - with higher dryhopping rates, process becomes much more important
3 - there is a limit but its very process (time vs temperature) and pallet dependent

 

[Dgallo]

1 - higher dry hopping rate impact is mostly seen with longer aging
2 - with higher dryhopping rates, process becomes much more important
3 - there is a limit but its very process (time vs temperature) and pallet dependent

I was originally hoping the ddh process would actually contain the same amount of hops as the single but split into two separate additions. That’s the component of ddh I’m most interested in. I anecdotally believe I perceive a brighter and more forward hop character when I split them between 2 additions but again my bias may be perceiving that

 

[aaronm13]

I was originally hoping the ddh process would actually contain the same amount of hops as the single but split into two separate additions. That’s the component of ddh I’m most interested in. I anecdotally believe I perceive a brighter and more forward hop character when I split them between 2 additions but again my bias may be perceiving that

Think that's how it should have been conducted myself. Beer A, 2 additions of 4g/L each and beer B, 2 additions of 8g/L each.

My Yakima order finally arrived in Ireland today so will hopefully get them tomorrow or Monday then I can brew my Citra and Nelson DIPA. Going with just under 10oz double dry hop.

 

[Dgallo]

Think that's how it should have been conducted myself. Beer A, 2 additions of 4g/L each and beer B, 2 additions of 8g/L each.

I’m actually getting more at the fact that A 1 addition or 8g/l and B have 2 additions of 4g/l. That way they use an equivalent amount of hops and you would be able to see what the impact of two separate dryhops additions verses one.

The study as is only shows if more hops has a bigger impact

 

[Dgallo]

My Yakima order finally arrived in Ireland today so will hopefully get them tomorrow or Monday then I can brew my Citra and Nelson DIPA. Going with just under 10oz double dry hop.

Nelson and Citra work great together

 

[aaronm13]

I’m actually getting more at the fact that A 1 addition or 8g/l and B have 2 additions of 4g/l. That way they use an equivalent amount of hops and you would be able to see what the impact of two separate dryhops additions verses one.

The study as is only shows if more hops has a bigger impact

Yes, that actually makes more sense as you're trying to gauge the effect of single to double dry hopping. They've basically combined two experiments in one with little conclusion.

Nelson and Citra work great together

I was never a huge fan of Nelson but had some incredible examples of Citra and Nelson together so I grew to love it. Really excited to try the lower dry hop amounts to see if this is the issues I've been having lately.

Still unsure of the ratio between the two though. Citra will be Lupomax and leaning towards a 2:1 Citra. To gauge the intensity of the hops as you always say to smell them should you maybe get say 5 pellets of each and rub them together to see what a 50/50 split smells like then go from there?

 

[Andre3000]

Also HBC586 > Sabro

By 100000%. Might even be better than Strata, although they’re very different. Another incredibly strong and unique hop that’s not really like anything else out there. Has the intense tropical notes of Sabro but none of the wood/dill/mint etc.

highly recommend

I was a fan of this hop when I tried it about a year ago. I really don't feel like it ever got the attention it deserves. As a matter of fact it only comes up less than 10 times in this thread. Glad someone else is on it.

 

[beervoid]

Think that's how it should have been conducted myself. Beer A, 2 additions of 4g/L each and beer B, 2 additions of 8g/L each.

My Yakima order finally arrived in Ireland today so will hopefully get them tomorrow or Monday then I can brew my Citra and Nelson DIPA. Going with just under 10oz double dry hop.

I would add that if your process is not right going higher on dryhopping will not help your beer, you are better off starting at the lowish side (5-6oz) and working your way up.
With these high rates its very difficult to get bright flavor on a homebrew level.

 

[beervoid]

I was originally hoping the ddh process would actually contain the same amount of hops as the single but split into two separate additions. That’s the component of ddh I’m most interested in. I anecdotally believe I perceive a brighter and more forward hop character when I split them between 2 additions but again my bias may be perceiving that

I found the same thing.
I was never convinced biotransformation did anything until recently for the first time I found a difference when doing a double dry hop end of fermentation and after soft crash.

 

[beervoid]

Double post, please delete

 

[AMessenger]

Idea for the dry hopping conundrum:

I use a SS Brewtech Brewbucket which has a spigot at the bottom. For dryhopping I typically just open the lid and drop my hops in as quickly and gently as possible. The beers taste plenty hoppy without any attempt to deal with the oxygen that must have gotten in but, without any way to measure the amount of oxygen exposure or to say what the beer would have been like without the exposure, I can’t help but get a nagging feeling that maybe things could be better.

I’m mulling over the idea of trying to inject some CO2 after dry hopping to give the investment in time and $ these beers represent a better chance for success. For the mechanics on how to go about this, I wonder if a low pressure trickle into the output spigot to bubble up through the beer and out the airlock at the top might be the best way to get the CO2 in and headspace oxygen out. Is this how any of you guys do this?

 

[R.A.I.D]

Idea for the dry hopping conundrum:

I use a SS Brewtech Brewbucket which has a spigot at the bottom. For dryhopping I typically just open the lid and drop my hops in as quickly and gently as possible. The beers taste plenty hoppy without any attempt to deal with the oxygen that must have gotten in but, without any way to measure the amount of oxygen exposure or to say what the beer would have been like without the exposure, I can’t help but get a nagging feeling that maybe things could be better.

I’m mulling over the idea of trying to inject some CO2 after dry hopping to give the investment in time and $ these beers represent a better chance for success. For the mechanics on how to go about this, I wonder if a low pressure trickle into the output spigot to bubble up through the beer and out the airlock at the top might be the best way to get the CO2 in and headspace oxygen out. Is this how any of you guys do this?

If you can inject CO2 into the input post while you have the fermenter open, the positive pressure will minimize the amount of oxygen going into the fermenter while it is open. CO2 in the output post might create a lot of foam.
Also you can add 0.5g/10L ascorbic acid together with the dry hop. It will work as an antioxidant and pick up any remaining O2.

 

[couchsending]

Idea for the dry hopping conundrum:

I use a SS Brewtech Brewbucket which has a spigot at the bottom. For dryhopping I typically just open the lid and drop my hops in as quickly and gently as possible. The beers taste plenty hoppy without any attempt to deal with the oxygen that must have gotten in but, without any way to measure the amount of oxygen exposure or to say what the beer would have been like without the exposure, I can’t help but get a nagging feeling that maybe things could be better.

I’m mulling over the idea of trying to inject some CO2 after dry hopping to give the investment in time and $ these beers represent a better chance for success. For the mechanics on how to go about this, I wonder if a low pressure trickle into the output spigot to bubble up through the beer and out the airlock at the top might be the best way to get the CO2 in and headspace oxygen out. Is this how any of you guys do this?

Do you have the flat lid or have you upgraded to the domed lid for your bucket? (Assuming it’s 7g or larger)

If you have the domed lid you can dump hops in through the TC port so you don’t need to take the lid off. Use a funnel with as wide an opening that will just barley for inside the TC port.

You can also now use the 1.5 TC pressure transfer fitting SS sells. I’ve got a separate Co2 tank and manifold for my FVs. When the beer is almost done fermenting I put the pressure transfer fitting on and let pressure build up a bit (the PRV releases are 2psi so not much). But if helps to maintain positive pressure while soft cooling at least.

when it’s time to dry hop just turn the Co2 on, pull the pressure transfer fitting, dump hops in quickly and put the transfer fitting back on. You can use the PRV to purge the headspace as many times as you’d like.

Been doing this for hundreds of Hoppy beers. I have some Unitanks where I can send Co2 into the headspace while adding dry hops and I don’t really Notice any difference in overall hop impact.

 

[aaronm13]

Do you have the flat lid or have you upgraded to the domed lid for your bucket? (Assuming it’s 7g or larger)

If you have the domed lid you can dump hops in through the TC port so you don’t need to take the lid off. Use a funnel with as wide an opening that will just barley for inside the TC port.

You can also now use the 1.5 TC pressure transfer fitting SS sells. I’ve got a separate Co2 tank and manifold for my FVs. When the beer is almost done fermenting I put the pressure transfer fitting on and let pressure build up a bit (the PRV releases are 2psi so not much). But if helps to maintain positive pressure while soft cooling at least.

when it’s time to dry hop just turn the Co2 on, pull the pressure transfer fitting, dump hops in quickly and put the transfer fitting back on. You can use the PRV to purge the headspace as many times as you’d like.

Been doing this for hundreds of Hoppy beers. I have some Unitanks where I can send Co2 into the headspace while adding dry hops and I don’t really Notice any difference in overall hop impact.

That's the way I do it myself. I got the 3" TC from NorCal brewing. The PRV is great for purging.

 

[aaronm13]

I would add that if your process is not right going higher on dryhopping will not help your beer, you are better off starting at the lowish side (5-6oz) and working your way up.
With these high rates its very difficult to get bright flavor on a homebrew level.

I'm coming from around 16-18oz dry hop so this is small by my standards. All my last few beers have been a vegetal mess. This started when I stopped using a SS hop spider, I think anyway.

 

[jturman35]

I know it been discussed in here somewhere but what is the ideal
Boil/WP/ dry hop rate?

 

[couchsending]

I know it been discussed in here somewhere but what is the ideal
Boil/WP/ dry hop rate?

What is “ideal”

 

[jturman35]

Ideal as in successful, blown away! I brewed my first lager with using only 2 ounces of hops and blown away by how much hop character. This has led me to believe I'm over doing it. My next batch I'm shooting for these ratios below. This is one of my favorite style, but what a PITA to brew!

1oz @ 30min
1oz @ 15min

4oz WP
8OZ DH

 

[ihavenonickname]

1oz @ 30min
1oz @ 15min

4oz WP
8OZ DH

Yeah I would say that’s top of the bell curve quantities - for a single. We should really take a formal poll of the readers of this thread with this and a lot of other questions on it.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Ideal as in successful, blown away! I brewed my first lager with using only 2 ounces of hops and blown away by how much hop character. This has led me to believe I'm over doing it. My next batch I'm shooting for these ratios below. This is one of my favorite style, but what a PITA to brew!

1oz @ 30min
1oz @ 15min

4oz WP
8OZ DH

This is pretty close to what Im doing depending on the anticipated ABV of the beer. For the boil, the additions seem fine, but just not sure what IBUs you are shooting for overall. Im typically doing a 60 minute and 5-10min addition and dosage depends on the alpha acid % to target the IBUs I want. Im thinking myself of playing around with 60,30,10minute additions as I haven't done 30min additions before. Seems like a middle ground. Have you done 30 and 15min additions before? Just curious as to what you think you've gotten out of that compared to 60min and 5 or 10min additions.

 

[anteater8]

CTZ/Citra NEIPA update:

This is actually the Trillium Melcher St clone recipe, but there is better conversation on this thread.

13 lb 2 row
2.75 lb Wheat
0.5 lb Carapils
0.5 lb Crystal 15
0.7 lb Sugar

0.4 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus 10 min
3 oz Columbus whirlpool (170 for 30 min)
1 oz Columbus dry hop
4 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop
whirlfloc 10 min

Imperial Juice Gen 2

100:200 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.066
F.G. = 1.013
ABV = 7%

This beer is so good. All mango and peach on the nose. Mango, peach, ripe papaya, sweet candied pineapple and smooth dankness on the finish. The thing I love about this recipe is the depth, I can't describe it very well but the flavor evolves from bright and punchy to deep as you taste it - there is a lot going on. This recipe got me a gold medal a few years ago. The only thing I changed this time was adding Lupomax into the dry hop. Highly recommend this recipe!

edit: I'm looking at this post next to my actual beer and it looks much better in real life lol, bad light

 

[R.A.I.D]

CTZ/Citra NEIPA update:
View attachment 720300

This is actually the Trillium Melcher St clone recipe, but there is better conversation on this thread.

13 lb 2 row
2.75 lb Wheat
0.5 lb Carapils
0.5 lb Crystal 15
0.7 lb Sugar

0.4 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus 10 min
3 oz Columbus whirlpool (170 for 30 min)
1 oz Columbus dry hop
4 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop
whirlfloc 10 min

Imperial Juice Gen 2

100:200 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.066
F.G. = 1.013
ABV = 7%

This beer is so good. All mango and peach on the nose. Mango, peach, ripe papaya, sweet candied pineapple and smooth dankness on the finish. The thing I love about this recipe is the depth, I can't describe it very well but the flavor evolves from bright and punchy to deep as you taste it - there is a lot going on. This recipe got me a gold medal a few years ago. The only thing I changed this time was adding Lupomax into the dry hop. Highly recommend this recipe!

edit: I'm looking at this post next to my actual beer and it looks much better in real life lol, bad light

I also have a Trillium Street inspired NEIPA in the dry hop keg right now. Just used Nectaron instead of Citra. Will report back.

Did you smell and taste yours before dry hopping? How would you describe your base without the dry hop?

 

[anteater8]

I also have a Trillium Street inspired NEIPA in the dry hop keg right now. Just used Nectaron instead of Citra. Will report back.

Did you smell and taste yours before dry hopping? How would you describe your base without the dry hop?

I really don't pay attention to that stuff to be honest. I know a lot of brewers like to taste along the way, but for me, tasting the beer before its at its prime gives me no indication of what it will taste like in its final form. Maybe I'm missing something! My beers might taste like crap after 13 days in the keg and then transform overnight into something great.

 

[Andre3000]

This is my attempt at avoiding o2 pickup.

I welded a triclover assembly onto a 10 gal corny that functions as a "dry hop cannon". Here's how it works:

-Dry hop charge in the cannon at yeast pitch. The cannon valve (blue handle) is cracked enough to let gas through but prevents hops from passing through.
-Co2 from fermentation purges through dry hops into serving keg (not shown).
-Spund valve on serving keg towards end of fermentation.
-After soft crash, dry hop by opening cannon valve fully.
-Forced transfer under pressure by disconnecting gas quick connect and applying Co2 pressure (bronze check valve).

The latest addition to this setup was the tee, which allows me to not have to connect or disconnect any posts at any point, which I suspect are a source of o2 pickup. I'm kind of nervous about it inadvertently transferring half way through fermentation but I did a few tests and I don't think that will happen.

It's a bit of a janky diy solution but there is zero opportunity for o2 pickup.

I think there is a fallacy that hop pellets are solid. They are not. There are all sorts of nooks and crannies that entrain air. Even if you purge the headspace while you dry hop, you're more than likely picking up o2 if those hops have sat in the open air for any amount of time.

 

[beervoid]

View attachment 720408

This is my attempt at avoiding o2 pickup.

I welded a triclover assembly onto a 10 gal corny that functions as a "dry hop cannon". Here's how it works:

-Dry hop charge in the cannon at yeast pitch. The cannon valve (blue handle) is cracked enough to let gas through but prevents hops from passing through.
-Co2 from fermentation purges through dry hops into serving keg (not shown).
-Spund valve on serving keg towards end of fermentation.
-After soft crash, dry hop by opening cannon valve fully.
-Forced transfer under pressure by disconnecting gas quick connect and applying Co2 pressure (bronze check valve).

The latest addition to this setup was the tee, which allows me to not have to connect or disconnect any posts at any point, which I suspect are a source of o2 pickup. I'm kind of nervous about it inadvertently transferring half way through fermentation but I did a few tests and I don't think that will happen.

It's a bit of a janky diy solution but there is zero opportunity for o2 pickup.

I think there is a fallacy that hop pellets are solid. They are not. There are all sorts of nooks and crannies that entrain air. Even if you purge the headspace while you dry hop, you're more than likely picking up o2 if those hops have sat in the open air for any amount of time.

I wouldnt call it janky, its a very nice setup.
Have you noticed any difference from previous batches?