Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
Interest rates are so low. We actually just refinanced because of it. With the lower rate we are literally the same monthly bill but knock 8 years of the mortgage lol
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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Brewed this one mostly following the original posters modified recipe part way in to a tee except for hops. I did zero bittering or hops until wort cooled down to around 168. Mine is all citra and Simcoe. Dry hopped around the end of day 2 of fermentation. I left in plastic bucket fermentors ( did 10 gallons) for a couple of weeks then open transferred to keg and then purged with co2 and let sit until a tap
opened up.
I'm pretty impressed for my first attempt at this and all the horror storied about oxidation and what not. The flavor is excellent. The color and cloudiness is what Iwould expect of a NEIPA.
thos was the first glass poured after dumping one so there could be some sediment and stuff and stool needs a little more carb time. Could have a little oxidation I don't know but I really like everything about it.
opened up.
I'm pretty impressed for my first attempt at this and all the horror storied about oxidation and what not. The flavor is excellent. The color and cloudiness is what Iwould expect of a NEIPA.
thos was the first glass poured after dumping one so there could be some sediment and stuff and stool needs a little more carb time. Could have a little oxidation I don't know but I really like everything about it.
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Never used this combo before myself so can't comment on that but looking at your recipe I see that you are whirlpooling 3oz of hops at 180 for 15minutes. Perhaps this is where you might want to consider modifying the process to get more juicy type flavor rather than bitterness. I personally like whirlpool/steeping at 150-160 range but for 45min-1hr. Lower temps will reduce your IBUs a good bit I think too allowing you to retain your 60min boil addition. Just a thought.
EDIT: my bad @Beerdrinker85 I read your post and I mistook you for @skleice who had question earlier about bitterness vs juiciness in the NEIPA.
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Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Haven't seen much on Spelt malt use in NEIPAs and a quick search in this thread using the key word spelt doesn't really reveal much. So Im curious, has anyone experimented with using spelt in place of (or in addition to) wheat for their NEIPAs? The description from northern brewer suggests it has more proteins than wheat malt and provides a more "soft and pillowy" mouthfeel compared to wheat. Of course, that description could just be magical genius marketing gimmick for suckers like me wanting to try it lol. Anyways, if anyone could provide their opinions and experiences with using it in NEIPAs, I would appreciate it!
Heres the link to northern brewers description:
best-malz-spelt-malt
Heres the link to northern brewers description:
best-malz-spelt-malt
couchsending
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Plenty of breweries use Spelt in hoppy beers. Fox Farm and Holy Mountain, Monkish, can’t think of more at the moment. I’ve made plenty of beers with Spelt, mostly Saisons and a few lagers. It has a more “rustic” flavor profile to it as compared to wheat. More earthy might be the best way to describe it. Don’t really love it with modern hops personally. Goes great with noble hops though.
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Ive had it in one beer (that I know of) that listed it on the can as part of the malt bill. It was Alamanac "Loud" DIPA which I really thought was a great beer. But considering it was an n-size of 1, hard to tell what spelt brings to the table for me. Haven't considered how spelt vs wheat interacts with the hops though. I like the description, but unsure what the "spicy" descriptor really means. Might have to just get my hands on some to taste the grain itself compared to the Briess White Wheat I have on hand.
Oh yeah since I di
Forgot to add that because I didn't do any 60 min. Additions I only boiled for 30 min. I designed my recipe this way. Came out at 7.1 abv. Very tasty and very juicy
Small follow up on the Yakima Chief webinars I was talking about a few days ago: Webinars | Yakima Chief Hops
I highly recommend both "Improved dryhopping techniques" presentations by Spencer Tielkemeier
A bit of repitition of what we already knew, but still lots of solid advice and a few new great insights (at least for me)
The most interesting part of the Part 1 presentation is a graph where they rank hops according to their amount of compounds (linalool, geraniol, esters, ...) that survive heat or fermentation, giving a better idea of what could be good whirlpool/midfermdryhop hops vs which hops are better for a post ferm dry hop.
Part 2 has a detailed explanation on how to deal with hop creep.
I like his point of view in that he assumes that it's going to happen anyway (which makes more sense for professional brewers having cans sitting on a shelf), so it is better to have it happen in a controlled manner by e.g. adding a small amount of hops during active fermentation, maybe dryhop at fermentation temperatures, create a more fermentable wort with less dextrins.
Part 2 also has a nice comparison of the effect in terms of compounds present in the final beer between a mid ferm dry hop (6-10 Plato from terminal gravity) and a post ferm dry hop.
The funny thing they found for a specific hop was that even though the post ferm dry hop beer had way more linalool and geraniol in the beer, it was less floral and citrussy than mid ferm dry hop beer. The possible explanation that hey give is that with a mid ferm dry hop some of the linalool and geraniol gets transformed into compounds that work in synergy with the remaining linalool and geraniol.
One data point though, so can't be generalized.
In general 2 very interesting presentations with lots of practical but also some scientific information.
I highly recommend both "Improved dryhopping techniques" presentations by Spencer Tielkemeier
A bit of repitition of what we already knew, but still lots of solid advice and a few new great insights (at least for me)
The most interesting part of the Part 1 presentation is a graph where they rank hops according to their amount of compounds (linalool, geraniol, esters, ...) that survive heat or fermentation, giving a better idea of what could be good whirlpool/midfermdryhop hops vs which hops are better for a post ferm dry hop.
Part 2 has a detailed explanation on how to deal with hop creep.
I like his point of view in that he assumes that it's going to happen anyway (which makes more sense for professional brewers having cans sitting on a shelf), so it is better to have it happen in a controlled manner by e.g. adding a small amount of hops during active fermentation, maybe dryhop at fermentation temperatures, create a more fermentable wort with less dextrins.
Part 2 also has a nice comparison of the effect in terms of compounds present in the final beer between a mid ferm dry hop (6-10 Plato from terminal gravity) and a post ferm dry hop.
The funny thing they found for a specific hop was that even though the post ferm dry hop beer had way more linalool and geraniol in the beer, it was less floral and citrussy than mid ferm dry hop beer. The possible explanation that hey give is that with a mid ferm dry hop some of the linalool and geraniol gets transformed into compounds that work in synergy with the remaining linalool and geraniol.
One data point though, so can't be generalized.
In general 2 very interesting presentations with lots of practical but also some scientific information.
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lowtones84
Well-Known Member
I haven't used it in NEIPAs, but I use a lot of unmalted spelt in saisons and other farmhouse beers. One of my favorites is a 4% saison with a FG of usually under 1.000, around 30% unmalted spelt and I can certainly say that the body is fantastic for such a dry beer. That is unmalted and a pretty specialized mash schedule but I can certainly say that works.
where have you been sourcing it? i think bestmalz has it in their lineup, but i cant say i recall if it was malted or not
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
Honestly I usually just google and try to find a 10 lb. bag or something. Usually called "spelt berries" for unmalted spelt. Only downside is that it's a PITA to crush.
HopsAreGood
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Have you tried steeping/whirlpooling for less than 45 minutes to an hour? And determined that you like the results better by doing so?
I used to do it for that long but have since cut it down to only 15, 20, sometimes 30 minutes and can’t really tell a difference.Perhaps I’ll revisit it and try the longer whirlpool to see if it makes a difference.
I can’t imagine it takes an hour at 150-160 to get all the goods from the hops.
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Beerdrinker85
Well-Known Member
I usually stay at 160f with my GF for 30 min. I tried from 45 min to 15 min and did not noticed any difference at all... So I stay at 30 min then I chill quickly to 60-64.
Edit: I tried 200f and 180f and did not really notice it was more bitter
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
I’ve been doing 20 mins at 150 recently and am happy with the results. I can’t tell any difference when doing 45-60
Minutes. I also used to do 170, 180 and similarly noticed very little difference in terms of bitterness. So for now 15-20 minutes at 150 is good for me.
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
To be honest my answer here is purely anecdotal from my experience. I have done shorter durations (30minutes) and do prefer the longer times when at 150-160degrees primarily because I like to stagger my hop additions throughout. Every 15 minutes I add hops in smaller doses rather than dump them all in at one time. I have played with dumping everything in at once vs staggered during a 1hr whirlpool/steep and I personally think the staggered version produces a more intense flavor overall in developing the hop profile but again thats just my anecdotal experience. If you are using just one hop variety in whirlpool, staggering additions at the same temp might not make much of a difference though but i typically whirlpool 2-3 different hop varieties.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
I'm absolutely loving Imperial Juice these days. I have a double batch that I am about to pitch once it cools down in the fridge (darn hot ground water temps here now!) I was thinking about running the batches hotter than usual to see if I can get more esters. How hot can I run Juice and get good flavor? I was thinking of trying 72F all the way through. I did that with WLP002 a few times and got really good results. I usually use 68F with a ramp up to 70 or 72F at the end.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I run 1318 at 74 but at 78 I got Fusel. I’d assume they react very similarly
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
I have a batch right now that I used omegas British ale V (same strain) that I ran at 72 the whole time. There’s a picture of the tank log for one of other half’s IPAs and it clearly shows them using the same strain at 72 throughout the duration of fermentation.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
True but you don’t know exactly why they run it at 72 for that specific beer. It may be to get slightly less esters to let the hops shine. Or with that hop combo that temp helped elevate the beer. It could even be that’s the highest they’ll go because they don’t want to risk it getting too hot. With out explanation from Sam, it’s kinda just info, ya know.
I always suggest playing around with fermentation temps. Go up a degree every time you brew with it until you feel you’ve it it’s max. Then see where you enjoyed it the most
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% and am in no way suggesting they always do this the exact same way. It just shows that at the very least sometimes they run this yeast at that temp.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
So this is a question I want to open up to everyone.. clearly the Ph is really interesting to me but I noticed that the first time I looked at that log. I think what’s more interesting is the rise in Plato. Do you think it’s due to the dryhop or do you think they are adding lactose at that point?
I would guess lactose. Looks like the beer was centrifuged on day 6, and transferred to a brite tank (w/38ppb DO) so I would guess they would try hard avoid any kind of refermentation from hop creep or otherwise at that point?
secretlevel
Well-Known Member
Looks like they're using A18 Joystick, which is an interesting choice. It's a cleaner ale yeast, right?
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
https://brewingscience.com/product/london-ale-iii/1318/Juice/etc....
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
It’s “A-18” which is a commercial pitch of 1318 from BSI
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
So Im assuming that the two days in a row at 4.2 (days 6 and 7) confirm thats the final gravity? and both gravity and Ph are higher on day 5. Does lactose affect PH this much? Never used lactose yet so no clue to be honest lol.
EDIT: also went sure how many add lactose after primary fermentation over vs the boil.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
The dryhop will effect the ph that much. So it’s most likely the dryhop effecting the ph. I honestly have no idea air lactose bring ph up or down. Never measured prior to adding it.
Noob_Brewer
Well-Known Member
Oh, i missed the dry hop date (also on day 7 of that log), then they crashed it two days later.
crusader1612
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speaking of dryhopping, i missed my biotrans dryhop yesterday, fermented out insanely quickly with opshaug kveik (whoops), 2 days since pitching and it went from 1.062 - 1.015 maybe another point or 2 to go but meh, should still be tasty.
Especially keen to see what affect the columbus hops have on what is a pretty classic hazy in my house. the hop quantities change based on whats in my freezer, but they're generally the same (galaxy can be hard to find sometimes, so occasionally it gets subbed out for nelson sauvin, or replaced with more citra or mosaic).
hopping as follows:
15g columbus @ 15min
25g galaxy @ 5min
100g mosaic @ whirlpool (dropped to 85Deg C andwhirlpooled for 30mins).
bio trans hop (missed timing): 50g mosaic
final dryhop 4 days prior to packaging: 75g citra & 75g galaxy.
expected grain to kegging - 8 days
grain to glass 10 days (I like to give it 2 days to settle and force carb).
Normally I use london fog or 1318 for this, but was keen to give kveik another shot, especially in my standard hazy (i used lallemand dry voss for a more citrusy version with mandarina bavaria, centennial and loral recently, with good results).
Especially keen to see what affect the columbus hops have on what is a pretty classic hazy in my house. the hop quantities change based on whats in my freezer, but they're generally the same (galaxy can be hard to find sometimes, so occasionally it gets subbed out for nelson sauvin, or replaced with more citra or mosaic).
hopping as follows:
15g columbus @ 15min
25g galaxy @ 5min
100g mosaic @ whirlpool (dropped to 85Deg C andwhirlpooled for 30mins).
bio trans hop (missed timing): 50g mosaic
final dryhop 4 days prior to packaging: 75g citra & 75g galaxy.
expected grain to kegging - 8 days
grain to glass 10 days (I like to give it 2 days to settle and force carb).
Normally I use london fog or 1318 for this, but was keen to give kveik another shot, especially in my standard hazy (i used lallemand dry voss for a more citrusy version with mandarina bavaria, centennial and loral recently, with good results).
couchsending
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The slight increase in gravity displayed in the OH log is most likely due to the DH addition, nothing else. I’d bet if you ran it through a filter of some sort the gravity wouldn’t be that high.
I did find the drop in pH to that low of a reading rather interesting. I’ve had VT Ale go down to the low 4s before. I’ve had a few other ale strains get into the 3.9s before increasing. I don’t use 1318 or it’s various iterations anymore so I don’t have data on how low it got for me. I’d assume fermenting at 72 might also drop the pH even further than if it was fermented at 66. pH will always bottom out and increase on it’s own during fermentation even without a DH addition. Obviously large DH additions increase it even more.
I did find the drop in pH to that low of a reading rather interesting. I’ve had VT Ale go down to the low 4s before. I’ve had a few other ale strains get into the 3.9s before increasing. I don’t use 1318 or it’s various iterations anymore so I don’t have data on how low it got for me. I’d assume fermenting at 72 might also drop the pH even further than if it was fermented at 66. pH will always bottom out and increase on it’s own during fermentation even without a DH addition. Obviously large DH additions increase it even more.
isomerization
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I normally run 1318 at 66F, have you ever compared the profile side by side (or close), for warm and cold?
Looking to brew another NEIPA. My last one, I used 8% white wheat, 6% flaked oats, and 6% flaked wheat. It had a slight haze to it, but definitely not where I wanted it. I definitely want it more hazy. What kind of percentages are you guys with more NEIPA experience using?
I'm looking to brew one with the color and the haze of Firestone Walker's Mind Haze, if anyone has had that. Want it hazy but not chewy and with that bright yellow coloring. Based on using 20% wheat/oats last time, I was thinking I'd push this up to 30-35%...? Is that about where you guys are at?
For hops, I'm thinking Citra, El Dorado, and Mosaic. However, mosaic will be kept low because we're not huge fans of the flavor it adds when it's used heavily. Lightly used, we like it. Just off the cuff, I'm thinking 45% citra, 35% el dorado, and 20% mosaic....?
Any thoughts or info you're willing to share is appreciated!
Thanks.
I'm looking to brew one with the color and the haze of Firestone Walker's Mind Haze, if anyone has had that. Want it hazy but not chewy and with that bright yellow coloring. Based on using 20% wheat/oats last time, I was thinking I'd push this up to 30-35%...? Is that about where you guys are at?
For hops, I'm thinking Citra, El Dorado, and Mosaic. However, mosaic will be kept low because we're not huge fans of the flavor it adds when it's used heavily. Lightly used, we like it. Just off the cuff, I'm thinking 45% citra, 35% el dorado, and 20% mosaic....?
Any thoughts or info you're willing to share is appreciated!
Thanks.
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
His big is your dry hop? Dry hopping will add significant haze. Even though haze isn’t really the goal.
Well, I was just reading about how WeldWerks dry hops their Extra Extra Juicy Bits at the equivalent of 5oz per gallon. I saw in one of your previous posts @HopsAreGood that you were at roughly 3.2oz per gallon and I saw a post where @Dgallo stated he was at 2oz per gallon. Considering this is a 15 gallon batch, I don't think I'll go as high as 5. I'm thinking I'll go 3oz per gallon, so approximately 45oz of hops in the dry hop. Thinking out loud, I might go 48 just to make it an even 3 lbs, which after doing the math, puts me back at your 3.2oz per gallon. I'm also thinking one massive dry hop towards the end of fermentation as I've read that's what some of you have gone to, as opposed to 2 dry hops, although still on the fence with that.
The big thing I really want to avoid is hop burn so I'm thinking about dry hopping in a large bag, or multiple bags. Not sure though.
Also, what kind of whirlpool rates are you using (oz/gal)? I'll be targeting 17.5 - 18 gallons post boil. I've seen in other posts what calculates out to be about .3-.4oz / gallon which would put me at 7oz in the whirlpool at 18 gallons. I've also tried that rate on my last one and was a bit underwhelmed. I was thinking 12oz in the whirlpool in staggered additions which is .66oz / gal. Too much?
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
2 oz/gal should be enough. if you go higher with pellet hops you *could* start getting some weird flavors (based on my one trial with centennial and other stories I've heard.) also, many now use malted grains rather than flaked for good haze. I am using 15% wheat malt a lot. today i used 15% wheat malt and 15% oat malt. Finally, if you soft crash before dry hopping to get rid of the yeast, you will have a long-lasting haze and the accompanying hop flavor for a long time.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
So just to clarify, my dryhoping rates are only at 2oz per gallon on my bigger abv beer 9%+, for my typically single ipa I’m about 1.25-1.6oz per gallon.
My total hopping rates are from 2.5-3.5oz per gallon depending on the og
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
I don’t have a set DryHop rate either. The most I’ve ever done is 16 ounces in a dry hop, but I make a lot of beers with 6 to 8 ounces, and sometimes 10 to 12. I’ve also played around with as little as 2 ounces in the whirlpool and gone up to 8 ounces in the whirlpool, and then adjusting the dry hop based upon that. They all end up differently which for me is the fun part. Generally if I want to make a well flavored and highly aromatic IPA, I’ll be pretty close to 50% hot side and 50% in the DryHop. Sometimes that might look like 4 ounces in the boil, 4 ounces whirlpool, 8 ounces dry hop, or slightly Shifting those numbers around a little bit. Your plan looks good and will definitely yield a very good beer.
The current beer I’m getting ready to crash and keg was 2 ounces at 10, 2 ounces at five, 6 ounce whirlpool at 150, and an 8 ounce dry hop.
The current beer I’m getting ready to crash and keg was 2 ounces at 10, 2 ounces at five, 6 ounce whirlpool at 150, and an 8 ounce dry hop.
