New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

Anyone want to share their 'goto' hopping schedule? I've been playing with bittering additions, whirlpool only, 10 minute additions, flameout, etc, but I'm just not finding that right combo to bring out the juiciness of these hops.

How’s your cold side antioxidation practices?

 

[isomerization]

How’s your cold side antioxidation practices?

This is what I came to say. My hop presence immediately improved when I started using a pressurized fermenter (co2 on while dry hopping, cold crash with no O2, true closed transfer). I also started soft crashing at same time, so could also be a factor.

 

[Dgallo]

This is what I came to say. My hop presence immediately improved when I started using a pressurized fermenter (co2 on while dry hopping, cold crash with no O2, true closed transfer). I also started soft crashing at same time, so could also be a factor.

Agree fully. I thought I was making great beers before but the first beer when I went full closed transfer and low head pressure dryhoping I was amazed. Like many of us in this thread I’d rather drink my ipas than 99% of commercial.

 

[skleice]

Ferment in keg. Closed transfer to purged serving keg (pushed out starsan with co2). I also crash the yeast before dry hopping and crash hops before transferring.

Really, it's just that I'm pulling too much bitterness. So, I'm wondering about amounts and timing. I've been doing .25 oz additions at 60, 10 and flameout and then 160° whirlpool and dry hop at ~1.5oz/gallon.

 

[Dgallo]

Ferment in keg. Closed transfer to purged serving keg (pushed out starsan with co2). I also crash the yeast before dry hopping and crash hops before transferring.

Really, it's just that I'm pulling too much bitterness. So, I'm wondering about amounts and timing. I've been doing .25 oz additions at 60, 10 and flameout and then 160° whirlpool and dry hop at ~1.5oz/gallon.

Great practices for sure!!

What’s your water look like? And are you sure it’s true bitterness and not hopburn.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Ferment in keg. Closed transfer to purged serving keg (pushed out starsan with co2). I also crash the yeast before dry hopping and crash hops before transferring.

Really, it's just that I'm pulling too much bitterness. So, I'm wondering about amounts and timing. I've been doing .25 oz additions at 60, 10 and flameout and then 160° whirlpool and dry hop at ~1.5oz/gallon.

little confused, so you are using 0.75 total ounces in boil (if you include flameout), but are you whirl pooling at 1.5oz/gallon AND dry hopping at same rate? Or did you mean you are doing whirl pool additions at 0.25oz? Please clarify.

To your first point - I have not fermented in a keg so just so I understand our process - you cold crash in the fermenting keg, and then how do you get the hops in? Are you simply opening the large lid? If so, are you pumping in CO2 through the gas post when you do this? I would imagine this is a spot for potential oxidation issues.

Cheers.

 

[Dgallo]

little confused, so you are using 0.75 total ounces in boil (if you include flameout), but are you whirl pooling at 1.5oz/gallon AND dry hopping at same rate? Or did you mean you are doing whirl pool additions at 0.25oz? Please clarify.

To your first point - I have not fermented in a keg so just so I understand our process - you cold crash in the fermenting keg, and then how do you get the hops in? Are you simply opening the large lid? If so, are you pumping in CO2 through the gas post when you do this? I would imagine this is a spot for potential oxidation issues.

Cheers.

I’m pretty sure he’s saying his boil additions are abou .75 oz and then he’s roughly Whirlpool and dryhoping with about 7.5 oz in each

 

[skleice]

little confused, so you are using 0.75 total ounces in boil (if you include flameout), but are you whirl pooling at 1.5oz/gallon AND dry hopping at same rate? Or did you mean you are doing whirl pool additions at 0.25oz? Please clarify.

To your first point - I have not fermented in a keg so just so I understand our process - you cold crash in the fermenting keg, and then how do you get the hops in? Are you simply opening the large lid? If so, are you pumping in CO2 through the gas post when you do this? I would imagine this is a spot for potential oxidation issues.

Cheers.

Sorry,

I generally brew 4-4.25 gallons and ferment in a corny with a floating dip tube.

.25oz 60
.25oz 10
.25oz 0
3oz at 160° for 15 min

After fermentation, i crash yeast for 2 days, open keg and dry hop loose at 1.5oz/gallon. Purge a bunch of times. After a couple of days I crash for 2 days and then closed transfer to purged keg.

 

[Dgallo]

Sorry,

I generally brew 4-4.25 gallons and ferment in a corny with a floating dip tube.

.25oz 60
.25oz 10
.25oz 0
3oz at 160° for 15 min

After fermentation, i crash yeast for 2 days, open keg and dry hop loose at 1.5oz/gallon. Purge a bunch of times. After a couple of days I crash for 2 days and then closed transfer to purged keg.

Everything sounds good To me from a process stand point. Do you build water or use your tap? And if either what profile do you target

 

[skleice]

Everything sounds good To me from a process stand point. Do you build water or use your tap? And if either what profile do you target

Tap = soft water.
Calcium chloride, Na & epsom salt get me to:

Ca Mg NaCl CaCl SO4
53 20 50 150 75

1ml lactic...pH 5.4

 

[skleice]

Glad to hear it seems ok. That makes me think that my main problem is conditioning time, but was wondering if the boil additions were killing me. I'm always happy with my west coast IPA's, but haven't cracked the code on the NEIPA's.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Great practices for sure!!

What’s your water look like? And are you sure it’s true bitterness and not hopburn.

My first thought is exactly that...is it bitterness or hop burn astringency? One of my biggest pet peeves (not you) is when people call a beer that is straight hop burn fire bitter, but it’s like 10 ibus. There’s a big big difference. Again, you’re prob aware of this considering your well thought out practices but it’s worth asking.

 

[Dgallo]

Glad to hear it seems ok. That makes me think that my main problem is conditioning time, but was wondering if the boil additions were killing me. I'm always happy with my west coast IPA's, but haven't cracked the code on the NEIPA's.

Honestly it sound like you’re doing everything right to have your hops pop. All I can say is, for your next beer buy all your hops in 2 oz packs and only open the ones for dryhoping right before you drop them in. Use standard juicy/fruit forward hops like citra and mosiac. The. Split it up and do a dbl dryhop. Half at 4 days til your final crash and the last 2 days before the final crash. Then have some patients and don’t take your first pour until 14-18 days after you put it on the gas. Also just keep your grainbill for that beer simple. 80% 2row or Pilsner 18% malted wheat or oats and 2% honey malt or c10/c20.

If your hops pop then you’ll know where the changes occurred and you’ll have a new process that works for you

 

[secretlevel]

Tap = soft water.
Calcium chloride, Na & epsom salt get me to:

Ca Mg NaCl CaCl SO4
53 20 50 150 75

1ml lactic...pH 5.4

Just to be safe, I'd cut down the SO4 as well on top of dgallo's advice. It can be that your local water has increased SO4 recently so your gypsum is driving it over the line. I also use around 200ppm of CaCl myself and personally have issues with west coast IPA's. I have been wondering why they're not bitter at all

Edit: I'd also skip the 60 min addition, don't know if its contributing too much outside of bitterness.

 

[Chris Grubb]

I do 6 ounces at whirlpool and 6 ounces on the first full day of active fermentation. I was really pleased with the results last time I made this with this hop schedule and hornindal kviek yeast

 

[Beerdrinker85]

With a new kid and a new house, I haven't brewed since february 19. Was following this post before and I would appreciate your comments if this recipe is still up to date. I brewed 12 NEIPA before and I have some unopened 2018 Galaxy and 2019 Eldorado/Citra that I need to use before they are end of life.

I have FTSS, I dump trub and yeast when it's time. Got a Co2 tank plugued on the top of the Chronical when fermentation is finished to get some co2 in there and for dry hoping. I'm doing close co2 transfer to the keg so O2 is not a problem for me. (at least it works good so far).... Water profile is 73 Sulfate : 125 Chloride.

The only think I debate is:
-The combo of Galaxy - El Dorado / ratio (I always wanted to try this combo and wasting hops in the dry hop is not an issue for me)
-Only 1 big dry hop after fermentation is done for like 3-4-5 days max or
-1 Dry hop after ferm is done and 1 dry hop 2-3 days before kegging

Thanks for the input.

 

[skleice]

Just to be safe, I'd cut down the SO4 as well on top of dgallo's advice. It can be that your local water has increased SO4 recently so your gypsum is driving it over the line. I also use around 200ppm of CaCl myself and personally have issues with west coast IPA's. I have been wondering why they're not bitter at all

Edit: I'd also skip the 60 min addition, don't know if its contributing too much outside of bitterness.

I'm moving across town in 18 days, so I'll retest my water. In the meantime, I'm gonna drop the 60 min addition.

 

[Dgallo]

I'm moving across town in 18 days, so I'll retest my water. In the meantime, I'm gonna drop the 60 min addition.

I typically use a .5oz of Columbus and then another 1oz of a high alpha at 10 and it only calculates to about 30ibus most of the time. I honestly can’t imagine a .25oz addition at 60 Producing any real noticeable bitterness.

Good luck on your move! Where you headed to?

 

[isomerization]

I'm moving across town in 18 days, so I'll retest my water. In the meantime, I'm gonna drop the 60 min addition.

Really recommend trying out RO, why sacrifice any control, especially when it’s $0.39/gal.

 

[skleice]

I typically use a .5oz of Columbus and then another 1oz of a high alpha at 10 and it only calculates to about 30ibus most of the time. I honestly can’t imagine a .25oz addition at 60 Producing any real noticeable bitterness.

Good luck on your move! Where you headed to?

Just a bigger place for the family. No better time to buy than during a world wide pandemic amirite?

 

[Dgallo]

Just a bigger place for the family. No better time to buy than during a world wide pandemic amirite?

Interest rates are so low. We actually just refinanced because of it. With the lower rate we are literally the same monthly bill but knock 8 years of the mortgage lol

 

[Paul_Aris]

Brewed this one mostly following the original posters modified recipe part way in to a tee except for hops. I did zero bittering or hops until wort cooled down to around 168. Mine is all citra and Simcoe. Dry hopped around the end of day 2 of fermentation. I left in plastic bucket fermentors ( did 10 gallons) for a couple of weeks then open transferred to keg and then purged with co2 and let sit until a tap

opened up.

I'm pretty impressed for my first attempt at this and all the horror storied about oxidation and what not. The flavor is excellent. The color and cloudiness is what Iwould expect of a NEIPA.

thos was the first glass poured after dumping one so there could be some sediment and stuff and stool needs a little more carb time. Could have a little oxidation I don't know but I really like everything about it.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

-The combo of Galaxy - El Dorado / ratio (I always wanted to try this combo and wasting hops in the dry hop is not an issue for me)

Never used this combo before myself so can't comment on that but looking at your recipe I see that you are whirlpooling 3oz of hops at 180 for 15minutes. Perhaps this is where you might want to consider modifying the process to get more juicy type flavor rather than bitterness. I personally like whirlpool/steeping at 150-160 range but for 45min-1hr. Lower temps will reduce your IBUs a good bit I think too allowing you to retain your 60min boil addition. Just a thought.

EDIT: my bad @Beerdrinker85 I read your post and I mistook you for @skleice who had question earlier about bitterness vs juiciness in the NEIPA.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Haven't seen much on Spelt malt use in NEIPAs and a quick search in this thread using the key word spelt doesn't really reveal much. So Im curious, has anyone experimented with using spelt in place of (or in addition to) wheat for their NEIPAs? The description from northern brewer suggests it has more proteins than wheat malt and provides a more "soft and pillowy" mouthfeel compared to wheat. Of course, that description could just be magical genius marketing gimmick for suckers like me wanting to try it lol. Anyways, if anyone could provide their opinions and experiences with using it in NEIPAs, I would appreciate it!

Heres the link to northern brewers description:
best-malz-spelt-malt

 

[Dgallo]

Deleted

 

[couchsending]

Haven't seen much on Spelt malt use in NEIPAs and a quick search in this thread using the key word spelt doesn't really reveal much. So Im curious, has anyone experimented with using spelt in place of (or in addition to) wheat for their NEIPAs? The description from northern brewer suggests it has more proteins than wheat malt and provides a more "soft and pillowy" mouthfeel compared to wheat. Of course, that description could just be magical genius marketing gimmick for suckers like me wanting to try it lol. Anyways, if anyone could provide their opinions and experiences with using it in NEIPAs, I would appreciate it!

Heres the link to northern brewers description:
best-malz-spelt-malt

Plenty of breweries use Spelt in hoppy beers. Fox Farm and Holy Mountain, Monkish, can’t think of more at the moment. I’ve made plenty of beers with Spelt, mostly Saisons and a few lagers. It has a more “rustic” flavor profile to it as compared to wheat. More earthy might be the best way to describe it. Don’t really love it with modern hops personally. Goes great with noble hops though.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Plenty of breweries use Spelt in hoppy beers. Fox Farm and Holy Mountain, Monkish, can’t think of more at the moment. I’ve made plenty of beers with Spelt, mostly Saisons and a few lagers. It has a more “rustic” flavor profile to it as compared to wheat. More earthy might be the best way to describe it. Don’t really love it with modern hops personally. Goes great with noble hops though.

Ive had it in one beer (that I know of) that listed it on the can as part of the malt bill. It was Alamanac "Loud" DIPA which I really thought was a great beer. But considering it was an n-size of 1, hard to tell what spelt brings to the table for me. Haven't considered how spelt vs wheat interacts with the hops though. I like the description, but unsure what the "spicy" descriptor really means. Might have to just get my hands on some to taste the grain itself compared to the Briess White Wheat I have on hand.

 

[Paul_Aris]

Oh yeah since I di

Brewed this one mostly following the original posters modified recipe part way in to a tee except for hops. I did zero bittering or hops until wort cooled down to around 168. Mine is all citra and Simcoe. Dry hopped around the end of day 2 of fermentation. I left in plastic bucket fermentors ( did 10 gallons) for a couple of weeks then open transferred to keg and then purged with co2 and let sit until a tap View attachment 685751
opened up.

I'm pretty impressed for my first attempt at this and all the horror storied about oxidation and what not. The flavor is excellent. The color and cloudiness is what Iwould expect of a NEIPA.

thos was the first glass poured after dumping one so there could be some sediment and stuff and stool needs a little more carb time. Could have a little oxidation I don't know but I really like everything about it.

Forgot to add that because I didn't do any 60 min. Additions I only boiled for 30 min. I designed my recipe this way. Came out at 7.1 abv. Very tasty and very juicy

 

[Rainy]

Small follow up on the Yakima Chief webinars I was talking about a few days ago: Webinars | Yakima Chief Hops

I highly recommend both "Improved dryhopping techniques" presentations by Spencer Tielkemeier

A bit of repitition of what we already knew, but still lots of solid advice and a few new great insights (at least for me)

The most interesting part of the Part 1 presentation is a graph where they rank hops according to their amount of compounds (linalool, geraniol, esters, ...) that survive heat or fermentation, giving a better idea of what could be good whirlpool/midfermdryhop hops vs which hops are better for a post ferm dry hop.

Part 2 has a detailed explanation on how to deal with hop creep.
I like his point of view in that he assumes that it's going to happen anyway (which makes more sense for professional brewers having cans sitting on a shelf), so it is better to have it happen in a controlled manner by e.g. adding a small amount of hops during active fermentation, maybe dryhop at fermentation temperatures, create a more fermentable wort with less dextrins.

Part 2 also has a nice comparison of the effect in terms of compounds present in the final beer between a mid ferm dry hop (6-10 Plato from terminal gravity) and a post ferm dry hop.
The funny thing they found for a specific hop was that even though the post ferm dry hop beer had way more linalool and geraniol in the beer, it was less floral and citrussy than mid ferm dry hop beer. The possible explanation that hey give is that with a mid ferm dry hop some of the linalool and geraniol gets transformed into compounds that work in synergy with the remaining linalool and geraniol.

One data point though, so can't be generalized.

In general 2 very interesting presentations with lots of practical but also some scientific information.

 

[SanPancho]

Mike to see iré uses spelt a lot, or did, for a while. For body as I recall.