New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Noob_Brewer]

It’s good but it will eventually clear. I used it for a Psuedo Sue clone and the beer cleared on me after a few weeks. Still a great yeast, but if your stuck on the appearance for this style you may want to go another route. I just ordered Imperial Dry hop and can’t wait to give it a spin. Imperial Juice has been my go to.

I love A24 dry hop. I’ve tried barbarian (Conan) which makes up 50% of a24 but not as good imo. Haven’t tried juice yet. A24 has very nice esters but not overbearing although I haven’t pushed the temps or underpitched more as much as others have on it to get even more esters. It’s a great compliment to the hops for this style imo.

 

[Eltes]

It’s good but it will eventually clear. I used it for a Psuedo Sue clone and the beer cleared on me after a few weeks. Still a great yeast, but if your stuck on the appearance for this style you may want to go another route. I just ordered Imperial Dry hop and can’t wait to give it a spin. Imperial Juice has been my go to.

That hasn't been my experience at all. S04 is my go to for NEIPA. After having tried Conan, 1318, 644, A24 I found I liked S04 the best, it seemed to present the hops in the best way. In ~10 batches using S04 I haven't had any batch clear with some sitting in the keg (cold) for up to 2-3 months.

I belive the rest of the process is also an important factor in whether a batch might clear or not. I always use irish moss and since a few batches back I always cold crash before dry hopping. Also, I don't use any flaked grains.

 

[secretlevel]

I love A24 dry hop. I’ve tried barbarian (Conan) which makes up 50% of a24 but not as good imo. Haven’t tried juice yet. A24 has very nice esters but not overbearing although I haven’t pushed the temps or underpitched more as much as others have on it to get even more esters. It’s a great compliment to the hops for this style imo.

I'm curious how much A24 to pitch for a 5 gallon batch to get significant esters. I'll usually propagate 1oz of slurry into a 1L starter then pitch but I have to say the esters are still relatively low.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

In my very limited home brewing experience (10 were NEIPAs), I think that all were very drinkable at kegging, but notice the most improvement at about 5days after kegging and carbonating. It seems to be a "magical" turn of events at about 5days after. So after a week after kegging, they are great for me and continue to improve until about the second week after kegging.

Is that where they stabilize or go down hill?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Is that where they stabilize or go down hill?

With my limited experience I’ve noticed a continued improvement until about week two after keg and then it’s stable for rest of way. Although my legs have all been kicked somewhere between weeks 4-5 after kegging at the longest and most are kicked around week 3if I’m sharing lots which I do. None of my NEIPAs have cleared one bit but once they are kegged, I put them into keezer and they don’t move again until empty.

 

[aaronm13]

I have hit terminal gravity on my latest hazy. I’ve been using my house grain bill and experimenting with different hops/schedules, and different yeasts. This batch I used:

White Labs WLP013
Mosaic, Columbus, and Motueka

View attachment 675411

Care to share your grain bill? That color looks incredible.

 

[jturman35]

That hasn't been my experience at all. S04 is my go to for NEIPA. After having tried Conan, 1318, 644, A24 I found I liked S04 the best, it seemed to present the hops in the best way. In ~10 batches using S04 I haven't had any batch clear with some sitting in the keg (cold) for up to 2-3 months.

I belive the rest of the process is also an important factor in whether a batch might clear or not. I always use irish moss and since a few batches back I always cold crash before dry hopping. Also, I don't use any flaked grains.

I stand corrected, just looked back at my recipe and used "A01 House yeast" not S04. Sorry for the confusion, for some reason i swore i used S04. Here is the beer that I was referring to that cleared using House yeast and only 1lb flaked oats. I now used Imperial Juice and more malted oats & white wheat with much better results.

 

[flintoid]

I've used a S-04 blend. As with 1318 and other yeasts, if you pitch a high cell count, it gives you a pretty decent ale.

If you severely underpitch it, it gives you the estery goodness of a great NEIPA. 1318 is really, really good when under-pitched, though. S-04 doesn't shine nearly as bright, but maybe I still haven't dialed it back enough.

 

[Dgallo]

I'm curious how much A24 to pitch for a 5 gallon batch to get significant esters. I'll usually propagate 1oz of slurry into a 1L starter then pitch but I have to say the esters are still relatively low.

The way you’re doing it would be very difficult to calculate your pitch rate. Are you using 1oz of slurry from the pack or from a harvest? Sounds to me like you are underpitching by too big of a scale

 

[nebulabrewing]

Care to share your grain bill? That color looks incredible.

Sure!

66.9% Golden Promise
20.1% Flaked Oats
8.4% White Wheat
2.5% Honey Malt
2.1% Acid malt (for ph adjustments)

I shoot for a Mash PH of 5.1 to 5.3.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Sure!

66.9% Golden Promise
20.1% Flaked Oats
8.4% White Wheat
2.5% Honey Malt
2.1% Acid malt (for ph adjustments)

I shoot for a Mash PH of 5.1 to 5.3.

Just curious if you have done a mash Ph between 5.3-5.4ish. Ive always targeted to get under 5.4 and usually hit 5.35. From what Ive read, lower Ph in the 5.2 range will give more fermentable wort but a thinner body whereas 5.3-5.4 will help with the mouthfeel/fuller body. I haven't targeted a lower Ph yet in the range you are using so was just curious if you have done it both ways yourself and perceived any difference in mouthfeel.

 

[stickyfinger]

My new favorite malt bill for these IPAs is

80% Great Western Pale Malt
20% Best Wheat Malt

If I go higher than like 1.070 or so I add sugar instead of malt to get the higher gravity.

It's very simple but it really makes a nice beer. Nothing in the way of the hops, some sweetness in the finish but pretty dry overall. I'm really moving away from any character malts like caramel or honey or aromatic. They can be good once in awhile, but I like this most of the time.

I've also done it with Rahr and don't like that quite as much - seems too malty over a certain OG somehow. Briess is also awesome. I was surprised, as a lot of people complain about Briess or used to anyway. It's great malt. Just a 50# sack instead of 55ish# for most maltsters, so it's not as cost effective if the brew store sells them both for the same price...

 

[nebulabrewing]

Just curious if you have done a mash Ph between 5.3-5.4ish. Ive always targeted to get under 5.4 and usually hit 5.35. From what Ive read, lower Ph in the 5.2 range will give more fermentable wort but a thinner body whereas 5.3-5.4 will help with the mouthfeel/fuller body. I haven't targeted a lower Ph yet in the range you are using so was just curious if you have done it both ways yourself and perceived any difference in mouthfeel.

Over the last (almost) two years, I’ve been brewing and experimenting with hazy IPAs with yeast, mash temps, water chemistry, PH, and hop pairing/schedule.

some things I found was that lower mash temps (148F) and lower ph made for juicer beers, but lacked on head retention. As I’m digging into Scott Janish’s book, there’s so many variables to making these beers great. I still made good beers at 5.3-5.4 Ph and higher mash temps (up to 156), but those beers weren’t as juicy. Surprisingly, high or low temp mashes did not change mouthfeel (which I found fascinating).

Of course, your experience can, and will, vary differently than mine. I would recommend you running some experiments yourself and take some notes on what you learn.

 

[SRJHops]

Over the last (almost) two years, I’ve been brewing and experimenting with hazy IPAs with yeast, mash temps, water chemistry, PH, and hop pairing/schedule.

some things I found was that lower mash temps (148F) and lower ph made for juicer beers, but lacked on head retention. As I’m digging into Scott Janish’s book, there’s so many variables to making these beers great. I still made good beers at 5.3-5.4 Ph and higher mash temps (up to 156), but those beers weren’t as juicy. Surprisingly, high or low temp mashes did not change mouthfeel (which I found fascinating).

Of course, your experience can, and will, vary differently than mine. I would recommend you running some experiments yourself and take some notes on what you learn.

Interesting.. I know that mashing at 154 or higher can improve head retention by leaving longer dextrin chains. What do you speculate leads to juicier beer at lower mash temps? You would usually get lower FG/less sweetness at lower mash temps, but not sure how that relates?

P.S. I currently feel like higher sweetness is part of the juiciness I seek, so I have settled at a target FG of 1.020.
.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Over the last (almost) two years, I’ve been brewing and experimenting with hazy IPAs with yeast, mash temps, water chemistry, PH, and hop pairing/schedule.

some things I found was that lower mash temps (148F) and lower ph made for juicer beers, but lacked on head retention. As I’m digging into Scott Janish’s book, there’s so many variables to making these beers great. I still made good beers at 5.3-5.4 Ph and higher mash temps (up to 156), but those beers weren’t as juicy. Surprisingly, high or low temp mashes did not change mouthfeel (which I found fascinating).

Of course, your experience can, and will, vary differently than mine. I would recommend you running some experiments yourself and take some notes on what you learn.

Yup agreed with experiences varying from person to person as so many variables are in play here. While you've been experimenting with Hazys for about 2 years, Ive only been brewing for 3 months lol. Most all of my beers (Ive brewed 11 now) have been NEIPAs as Im sticking to one style while I learn brewing in general and learning my own system. For the first 4-5 NEIPAs, I was mashing at 152 with the mash Ph target of just under 5.4 and I generally hit 5.35ish. Those beers finished at 1.011-1.012 and while I didn't think they were necessarily "dry" I did think they were a bit "thin" and wanted a fuller mouthfeel. So ever since batch #6, Ive mashed at 154 and like clock work they finished at 1.013-1.014 with the same mash Ph (5.35ish). For me, the beers mashed at 154 and finished at about 1.014 were juicier with a fuller mouthfeel than the beers mashed at 152 and finishing lower at 1.012. So your comment about mash Ph in the 5.2 range intrigued me. Have you actually mashed higher but with lower mash Ph (5.2ish)? Your comments suggest you manipulated both at the same time which is why I was really asking I think. Nevertheless, I may try mashing at 154 but lower the Ph a little to the 5.2 range. Unsure if this will change the perceived mouthfeel which is what Im predominately interested in right now. Haven't even looked at head retention yet beyond grain bill choices. thanks for your response!

 

[nebulabrewing]

Yup agreed with experiences varying from person to person as so many variables are in play here. While you've been experimenting with Hazys for about 2 years, Ive only been brewing for 3 months lol. Most all of my beers (Ive brewed 11 now) have been NEIPAs as Im sticking to one style while I learn brewing in general and learning my own system. For the first 4-5 NEIPAs, I was mashing at 152 with the mash Ph target of just under 5.4 and I generally hit 5.35ish. Those beers finished at 1.011-1.012 and while I didn't think they were necessarily "dry" I did think they were a bit "thin" and wanted a fuller mouthfeel. So ever since batch #6, Ive mashed at 154 and like clock work they finished at 1.013-1.014 with the same mash Ph (5.35ish). For me, the beers mashed at 154 and finished at about 1.014 were juicier with a fuller mouthfeel than the beers mashed at 152 and finishing lower at 1.012. So your comment about mash Ph in the 5.2 range intrigued me. Have you actually mashed higher but with lower mash Ph (5.2ish)? Your comments suggest you manipulated both at the same time which is why I was really asking I think. Nevertheless, I may try mashing at 154 but lower the Ph a little to the 5.2 range. Unsure if this will change the perceived mouthfeel which is what Im predominately interested in right now. Haven't even looked at head retention yet beyond grain bill choices. thanks for your response!

Absolutely! I may have also misspoken now that I’m looking at my notes. My wort was 5.3 going into the kettle. I mashed at 154, and I’m sitting at TG of 1.016 (1.057 OG). My fermented beer ph is 4.27. I also adjusted my water chemistry a bit for this batch as well. I’m kegging it sometime this week and excited to try it.

 

[aaronm13]

Sure!

66.9% Golden Promise
20.1% Flaked Oats
8.4% White Wheat
2.5% Honey Malt
2.1% Acid malt (for ph adjustments)

I shoot for a Mash PH of 5.1 to 5.3.

Awesome, that's my identical grain bill too give or take a .1%-.2% here and there. That's very interesting about your observations of a lower ph resulting in a juicer feel. I usually shoot for 5.35 but might try and go lower on my next brew.

 

[secretlevel]

The way you’re doing it would be very difficult to calculate your pitch rate. Are you using 1oz of slurry from the pack or from a harvest? Sounds to me like you are underpitching by too big of a scale

I overbuild starters since harvesting A24 may give you a different yeast blend, then store 1-2oz of slurry for next time. Using several calculators, it looks like I'm pitching about 150 - 200b cells per 4 gallons. This is around half of what I should be pitching, but I'm not noticing crazy esters even ramping the yeast up to 75F, and my fermentation is usually finished within 5 days. Is that a good indicator that there's enough yeast in the wort?

 

[Dgallo]

I overbuild starters since harvesting A24 may give you a different yeast blend, then store 1-2oz of slurry for next time. Using several calculators, it looks like I'm pitching about 150 - 200b cells per 4 gallons. This is around half of what I should be pitching, but I'm not noticing crazy esters even ramping the yeast up to 75F, and my fermentation is usually finished within 5 days. Is that a good indicator that there's enough yeast in the wort?

I’m having a hard time following. I could just not be fully understanding what your process is

How are you calculating the starting cell count in your 1oz slurry from an overbuilt starter? This is where I’m lost I think. Is there a calculator for it that I just don’t know about?

Also based on the info you gave, 150-200 billion cells for a 4 gallon pitch would not be consider under pitching.
For a 1.065 beer (don’t know what your actual og is, I just used a typical one for the style) at 4 gallons of wort 175 billion cells would be roughly a .75 million cells/ml/p* which is a very health pitch rate (if your og is lower than my example it would raise the pitch rate and visa versa if your og is higher)To underpitch you’re looking to be around .4/.5 million cells/ml/p*. The last info I saw is that Shaun Hill is even lower than that at .35 for his strain.

**edit - Kimmich is closer to .35 not Hill**

 

[couchsending]

The last info I saw is that Shaun Hill is even lower than that at .35 for his strain.

where did you see this?

 

[Dgallo]

where did you see this?

I was mistaken with the brewer. It’s Kimmich that’s pitching at .35ish. Nonnan pitches closer to 1.0 and Shawn hill inly discussed pitching at industry standard made his beers more bitter and harsh.

 

[secretlevel]

I’m having a hard time following. I could just not be fully understanding what your process is

How are you calculating the starting cell count in your 1oz slurry from an overbuilt starter? This is where I’m lost I think. Is there a calculator for it that I just don’t know about?

Also based on the info you gave, 150-200 billion cells for a 4 gallon pitch would not be consider under pitching.
For a 1.065 beer (don’t know what your actual og is, I just used a typical one for the style) at 4 gallons of wort 175 billion cells would be roughly a .75 million cells/ml/p* which is a very health pitch rate (if your og is lower than my example it would raise the pitch rate and visa versa if your og is higher)To underpitch you’re looking to be around .4/.5 million cells/ml/p*. The last info I saw is that Shaun Hill is even lower than that at .35 for his strain.

**edit - Kimmich is closer to .35 not Hill**

Sorry for high-jacking this tread, lads.

Brewersfriend Starter Calculator has a 'Slurry' Yeast Type that I enter in my slurry volume into. I think their calculator is very generous for how many cells you actually need, so this may be where I'm going wrong...

Process: create a starter, decant after 2 days in fridge, then move a couple of ounces into a mason jar. Over time this will turn into about 1oz of slurry for me after I decant the beer off the top. After a month or two I'll create another starter and pitch 1L into a beer and a little bit into a jar again.

Brewersfriend calculator is telling me that after a month, I should have about 2 billion cells in 1 oz worth of slurry. Ramped up using 1L starter, I should have 146 billion. Do you think this is accurate?

 

[BeerFst]

Sorry for high-jacking this tread, lads.

Do you think this is accurate?

I think you would have quite a bit higher cell count than 2B. I do something similar to you. I make a starter and will pitch most of it, but typically hold back 300ml. I know how many cells I need for the actual beer and then overbuild it 50-100B. I figure out how much total volume i need to keep after decanting to end up with that 50-100 in 300ml. This can result in pitching up to a litre of starter though.

So if my beer needs 200B, lets say i make a starter at 300B in order to save 100B in that jar. since I have that 300ml jar, I know that my final volume needs to be 900ml after decanting regardless if it took me 1L or 2L to get to that 300B based on my initial cell counts. To do this I'll make my starter, cold crash, pour off until desired amount, stick it back on the sitrplate to get it nice and homogenous, then pour off into that jar. I could cold crash and decant a second time to reduce the liquid into the fermentor, but i rarely do that.

I just checked on jar in the fridge and its about 1oz well compacted slurry like you have, however when i collected that 300ml that was 85B cells. I then apply the normal 20% loss calculation and figure out what I should have in there when I do my next starter for another beer. However it often ends up many months before i get back to it and the calculator says i have 0 cells. As as long as the compact slurry hasnt gone completely dark brown, i know i have cells in there. that said i typically say i have 3B cells to start at this point. It's a total guess without any backing. I just kinda pick a number and go with it.

The one comment ill make about your current process is decanting a starter of A24 is just like collecting from the bottom of your fermentor. you need to pitch the whole volume. I have had my A24 starters completely clear, but it takes months for that to happen. i will decant if its totally clear like that even though i am doing a bit of conan selection when doing it.

 

[jturman35]

I may be pitching right or wrong but i typically pitch the whole 1.5L starter 18-24hours on the plate. I haven't tried under pitching yet.

 

[Dgallo]

Sorry for high-jacking this tread, lads.

Brewersfriend Starter Calculator has a 'Slurry' Yeast Type that I enter in my slurry volume into. I think their calculator is very generous for how many cells you actually need, so this may be where I'm going wrong...

Process: create a starter, decant after 2 days in fridge, then move a couple of ounces into a mason jar. Over time this will turn into about 1oz of slurry for me after I decant the beer off the top. After a month or two I'll create another starter and pitch 1L into a beer and a little bit into a jar again.

Brewersfriend calculator is telling me that after a month, I should have about 2 billion cells in 1 oz worth of slurry. Ramped up using 1L starter, I should have 146 billion. Do you think this is accurate?

Sorry I don’t know enough about the slurry calculation but brewers friend is pretty reputable so I would think they give a fair estimation. But for pitch rate you can play around with the calculator it to see what you’re pitch rate and cell count would be. I use one A24 pack(within a month of mfg)and pitch into 6 gallons I get a pitch rate of .5-.55 and it’s about 180 billion cells

 

[stickyfinger]

I'm finally going to replace my glass carboys. I have been using them and sometimes corny kegs to make these NEIPAs. Ideally I would use the cornys i guess, but it just turns out that i need to use something bigger sometimes, so... Would people still recommend the Fermonster fermentors? I was going to get a couple with the wrench and also a couple ports for pressurizing during cold crashes. People sometimes complain about the lid, but I am hoping if I don't over-pressurize and if I have the wrench I should be ok? I'm also going to get a few spare lids and o-rings of course!

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just carbed this up yesterday and while it’s still very young it’s quite enjoyable. I don’t think I’ve shared any pictures in this thread but there’s always a first for everything.

2-row, oats, wheat, carafoam
Strata, Cashmere, El Dorado, Columbus
Kveik Stranda(Hothead)at room temp
175 chloride, 75 sulfate, 70 salt
Carbed to 2.2 volumes

This beer has a 12 ounce dry hop loose in the keg and I’m pulling from a floating dip tube. I’m going to leave the hops in the keg and see if/when I start to get grassy or vegetal flavors.

 

[secretlevel]

That said i typically say i have 3B cells to start at this point. It's a total guess without any backing. I just kinda pick a number and go with it.

That's hilarious, you crack me up. Calculators are pretty pessimistic in viable yeast calculations - I've revived packets that are 11 months old before.

The one comment ill make about your current process is decanting a starter of A24 is just like collecting from the bottom of your fermentor. you need to pitch the whole volume. I have had my A24 starters completely clear, but it takes months for that to happen. i will decant if its totally clear like that even though i am doing a bit of conan selection when doing it.

I'm having one of those moments where I feel like a complete dummy since I've been decanting my starters. I shouldn't be decanting this one at all. I'm guessing after ~5 generations all I have is mostly Conan since it flocs higher. No wonder it doesn't smell the same as out of the package! fml...

View attachment 675672 Just carbed this up yesterday and while it’s still very young it’s quite enjoyable. I don’t think I’ve shared any pictures in this thread but there’s always a first for everything.

2-row, oats, wheat, carafoam
Strata, Cashmere, El Dorado, Columbus
Kveik Stranda(Hothead)at room temp
175 chloride, 75 sulfate, 70 salt
Carbed to 2.2 volumes

This beer has a 12 ounce dry hop loose in the keg and I’m pulling from a floating dip tube. I’m going to leave the hops in the keg and see if/when I start to get grassy or vegetal flavors.

She's a beauty, really curious about this hop combo! I'm guessing you might get some honeydew and canteloupe in the coming weeks, let us know how it is!

PS. 12 oz, dang At least these are cheaper hops...

 

[stickyfinger]

Ahhh! Strata is the new name for the old X331 hop! I used that in a single hop beer in 2017. I loaded it up in hop stand and dry hop. I really didn't like that beer at all and dumped it as i recall. Make sense now, as people are saying to use it sparingly!

 

[HopsAreGood]

Ahhh! Strata is the new name for the old X331 hop! I used that in a single hop beer in 2017. I loaded it up in hop stand and dry hop. I really didn't like that beer at all and dumped it as i recall. Make sense now, as people are saying to use it sparingly!

Interesting. I’ve never used Strata before but have heard good things...dank/cannabis/weed paired with generic tropical fruit and a specific strawberry note that many get. I’ve had commercial examples with it that I enjoyed so I figured I’d try it out.

This beer was a 45 minute boil and the hop schedule was:

.5 oz Columbus at 45, 15, 10, and 5

2 oz strata, 1 oz cashmere, 1 oz eldo and .5 oz Columbus at 170 whirlpool

6 oz strata, 3 oz cashmere, 3 oz eldo dry hop in the keg at 56 degrees.

So far it’s very smooth and far from overly aggressive or drain pour material. There is very little weed character and just a lot of berry, melon, and generic fruit character. I do expect the hop character to change over the next week or two as it conditions more, so we’ll see.