New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[SRJHops]

Half as much on the hot side as on the cold..

That study was done with Cascade. I’m more prone to trusting the best pros that have brewed the same beer a hundred times vs. that study.

Cool. Good stuff to test and lots of tasty beers to consume! One thing for sure, I don't think I'm likely to stick with 50:50, and I want to try experimenting with different hop additions. For the next brew, I think I will go with twice as much hops on the hot side as cool side. We'll see what happens!

I do 100% agree that if you've had a beer you think is the tops, and the brewer shares their secrets, then by all means that's the way to go. For me, I'd love to know what Toppling Goliath is doing. Or even closer to home, Drekker, Blackstack, Barrel Theory, and Fair State. Whatever they say about using hops I would certainly follow!

 

[SRJHops]

When it come to having excess polyphenols in my beer from elevated dryhop oz/gallon, they will come of extremely bitter/spicy until the beer has conditioned. Sometimes this is a few days, other times it’s 2 or more weeks depending on the hop variety. Polyphenol are typically detected by your taste buds as bitter and astringent. Here is a study that specifically looked at polyphenols and other polyphenolic compounds in beverages and food. You can read the article if you choose but it’s not really that interesting by any means just concludes that excess polyphenols in food and beverages will be picked up by taste receptors as bitterness View attachment 627821

Sound exactly like my current beer! It will certainly need 3 weeks in the bottle, and maybe 4, for the bitter/spice/bite to subside.

I do of course hope the bite/astringency goes away by week 4 at least, because that will give me 4 weeks to drink it before it starts to go south (based on my other beers).

Assuming my current beer becomes quite tasty at week 3-4, the $10,000 question is whether I can make one just as tasty that is ready to drink after 2 weeks of conditioning? By using different hops, fewer hops, and/or moving them to the hot side or earlier in fermentation...? Gotta love this hobby, and especially this style!

 

[WBCo]

I'd love to know what Toppling Goliath is doing. Or even closer to home, Drekker, Blackstack, Barrel Theory, and Fair State. Whatever they say about using hops I would certainly follow!

Unfortunately, as we sort of touched on earlier, (could've been in another thread) beer brewed with hops purchased at a homebrew shop will never match up with what some of these guys are making. We are simply brewing with inferior ingredients. The big boys get to pick the best of the best every single year and we are sold whats left. Not that we can't still make good beer, but it's not a one to one comparison.

Assuming my current beer becomes quite tasty at week 3-4, the $10,000 question is whether I can make one just as tasty that is ready to drink after 2 weeks of conditioning? By using different hops, fewer hops, and/or moving them to the hot side or earlier in fermentation...? Gotta love this hobby, and especially this style!

As a staunch bottler, I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but by kegging your beer you'll be able to start cold conditioning it immediately while you are carbonating it which helps speed up the process. My heavily hopped beers hit their stride somewhere around day 14 and I dry hop more than most in this thread.

 

[Hannabrew]

Those that use straight s04 for neipas what temp are you fermenting at?

 

[stickyfinger]

I can't see how a beer with more hotside vs coldside hops is going to be as good as one with the opposite. I guess it maybe depends on the hop variety though too. I've made some Pils beers with only a hop stand that seemed to have a lot of hop flavor, especially Ekuanot.

Cool. Good stuff to test and lots of tasty beers to consume! One thing for sure, I don't think I'm likely to stick with 50:50, and I want to try experimenting with different hop additions. For the next brew, I think I will go with twice as much hops on the hot side as cool side. We'll see what happens!

I do 100% agree that if you've had a beer you think is the tops, and the brewer shares their secrets, then by all means that's the way to go. For me, I'd love to know what Toppling Goliath is doing. Or even closer to home, Drekker, Blackstack, Barrel Theory, and Fair State. Whatever they say about using hops I would certainly follow!

 

[couchsending]

Those that use straight s04 for neipas what temp are you fermenting at?

64

 

[Hannabrew]

64

I was afraid you'd say that. I started it at 64 but had to leave for a day and or course it got hot as f today so it rose to 71. What kinds of esters should I expect?

 

[Dgallo]

I can't see how a beer with more hotside vs coldside hops is going to be as good as one with the opposite. I guess it maybe depends on the hop variety though too. I've made some Pils beers with only a hop stand that seemed to have a lot of hop flavor, especially Ekuanot.

It’s definitely hop specific and the flavor and profile you’re going for. For example Citra and Mosiac both tend to throw their danker notes on the hot side and slightly more fruity notes in the dryhop. Imo both those profiles are wonderful and depends more on what you’re pairing it with. Now I feel galaxy, Nelson, Blanc, and el dorado are strictly dryhop verities and really show their best character coldside.

Hot verse cold is all about layering your flavor and the percentages on either side should depend on the flavor your aiming for.

 

[stickyfinger]

i'd like to see a list of hop varieties and and their characteristics and intensity when used in either instance.

CTZ great in hop stand or dry hop
amarillo great in dry hop
eureka! great in both
ekuanot is boss in the hop stand
citra is great in both
comet in either
galaxy in either

It’s definitely hop specific and the flavor and profile you’re going for. For example Citra and Mosiac both tend to throw their danker notes on the hot side and slightly more fruity notes in the dryhop. Imo both those profiles are wonderful and depends more on what you’re pairing it with. Now I feel galaxy, Nelson, Blanc, and el dorado are strictly dryhop verities and really show their best character coldside.

Hot verse cold is all about layering your flavor and the percentages on either side should depend on the flavor your aiming for.

 

[Dgallo]

i'd like to see a list of hop varieties and and their characteristics and intensity when used in either instance.

CTZ great in hop stand or dry hop
amarillo great in dry hop
eureka! great in both
ekuanot is boss in the hop stand
citra is great in both
comet in either
galaxy in either

I agree. I’m sure you can compile anecdotally from this thread actually by just reading ppls posts lol. However I’d like to see it in an actual study. Rumor is that the revised hopping method other half and equilibrium are saying they are using is all about a variety of different temperature rest for the extraction specific hop flavor/Aroma compounds.

 

[stickyfinger]

who would have thought hopping could be so complex

 

[SRJHops]

I agree. I’m sure you can compile anecdotally from this thread actually by just reading ppls posts lol. However I’d like to see it in an actual study. Rumor is that the revised hopping method other half and equilibrium are saying they are using is all about a variety of different temperature rest for the extraction specific hop flavor/Aroma compounds.

Scott Janish's book came out in e-book form yesterday -- not sure when the print version will come out. Based on his recent BYO article, I bet he has recommendations for which hops work best in whirlpool vs dry hop, etc.

 

[SRJHops]

I can't see how a beer with more hotside vs coldside hops is going to be as good as one with the opposite. I guess it maybe depends on the hop variety though too. I've made some Pils beers with only a hop stand that seemed to have a lot of hop flavor, especially Ekuanot.

I'm no scientist, but I'm thinking you get better extraction on the hot side? So it kinda makes sense to me to back off the quantities on the late dry hopping, in favor of the hot side a bit. But it does seem -- as lot of folks are saying -- that different hops work better on the hot side vs cold side, etc.

 

[Genuine]

Those that use straight s04 for neipas what temp are you fermenting at?

I've fermented mine between 64 and 68 and haven't noticed too much of a difference. I was a bit impatient with my last one done with s04 and kegged it on day 7 which led to an ever so slight diacetyl flavor I picked up on, however no one else has mentioned anything either through flavor or aroma. next time I'll wait to day 9-10 to keg. The current batch I did with Citra, Mosaic and Idaho 7 was fermented with A38 Juice. I have a pouch of their dryhop to try once this keg runs out.

I've been doing 7oz in the whirlpool at 180 and let it naturally cool for 30 minutes and then 6 oz in the dryhop in 2 stages. The First 3oz on day 2 and the last 3oz on day 7

 

[Dgallo]

I have a pouch of their dryhop to try once this keg runs out.

I know I’ve said this plenty of times but once you use dryhop, it’s goibg to become your favorite. It is such an amazing ester yeast. Under pitch it to like .6 and it really will shine

 

[WBCo]

I'm no scientist, but I'm thinking you get better extraction on the hot side? So it kinda makes sense to me to back off the quantities on the late dry hopping, in favor of the hot side a bit. But it does seem -- as lot of folks are saying -- that different hops work better on the hot side vs cold side, etc.

Warmer temperature does help with extraction, but so does the alcohol created by fermentation. I'm no scientist either, so I'm not sure how they differ beyond the amount of time needed. Maybe Janish's book will shed some light on that topic.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'm no scientist, but I'm thinking you get better extraction on the hot side?

Often - but then you have to set that against the rate at which a compound boils off. Many aroma compounds are volatile (inevitably, as that's how they reach your nose) and so you end up with more of them in the final wort if you extract at lower temperatures.

Brewing is a mix of science and art/craft....

 

[SRJHops]

Often - but then you have to set that against the rate at which a compound boils off. Many aroma compounds are volatile (inevitably, as that's how they reach your nose) and so you end up with more of them in the final wort if you extract at lower temperatures.

Brewing is a mix of science and art/craft....

Oh yes, certainly. When I say hot side I generally mean sub-isomerization temps. Based on what I have learned and read so far, the sweet spot for whirlpooling is somewhere around 170 or so, though folks certainly go lower or higher too. (Love see a study of the optimal length of a whirlpool, BTW). But even at say, 140, that's still a lot warmer than fermentation temps. The extraction must be pretty poor at 68 degrees, plus or minus...

 

[stickyfinger]

if i had to choose either hop stand or dry hop i’d go dry hop every time. hop stand to me is just another way to pack more flavor into the wort while reducing astringency

 

[Blazinlow86]

I know I’ve said this plenty of times but once you use dryhop, it’s goibg to become your favorite. It is such an amazing ester yeast. Under pitch it to like .6 and it really will shine

I agree. Dryhop is really nice. Cheers

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The extraction must be pretty poor at 68 degrees, plus or minus...

It depends on the compound - imagine that hops were made out of table salt, they would “extract” into the wort just fine at room temperature.

There’s no single magic temperature, different temps will get a different balance of compounds from different hops.

 

[Dgallo]

It depends on the compound - imagine that hops were made out of table salt, they would “extract” into the wort just fine at room temperature.

There’s no single magic temperature, different temps will get a different balance of compounds from different hops.

That is exactly what I was getting at talking about what Other Half and Equilibrium are doing.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I did just Citra and Idaho 7 a few months back and it was really good. Those two seem work well together. Next time I brew that recipe I think I will try adding Mosaic to the mix.

I've got one fermenting right now with Idaho 7 and Denali that I'm excited about. The I7 smelled amazing when I ripped open the bag. I'm one that likes a little more than just fruit explosion in my NEIPAs so I'm hoping the Idaho brings some piney complexity to the party.

 

[Genuine]

Here to report that Citra, mosaic and Idaho 7 in the dryhop is a real winner! The aroma is unreal. Deep tropical fruit, hint of pineapple. The hydrometer sample was great. Can’t wait to see it with some carbonation on it.

 

[beervoid]

That is exactly what I was getting at talking about what Other Half and Equilibrium are doing.

Was at a beer festival. Some guys double dry hop at different temps. If you want a bit more raw green hoppy flavor you go lower temps for the 2nd dry hop.

Also sampled a sabro ddh ipa. Full on coconut really surprising.

 

[NickC]

Off topic really quick - anyone here know about neipa breweries in Austin? Will be down there next weekend and having a hard time finding anything.

 

[Dgallo]

Off topic really quick - anyone here know about neipa breweries in Austin? Will be down there next weekend and having a hard time finding anything.

I think ingenious, celestial, and turning point are all in the Austin area. Ingenious has some amazing milkshake style IPAs. They will be the closets to what you think of as a NEIPA

 

[Dgallo]

Was at a beer festival. Some guys double dry hop at different temps. If you want a bit more raw green hoppy flavor you go lower temps for the 2nd dry hop.
.

From experience I don’t think that’s true. I know guys who Ive had beers from that keg hop their IPAs and I never experienced a raw hop flavor. However I have experienced the green raw hops flavors if someone dryhops at too high a rate per gallon

 

[NickC]

I think ingenious, celestial, and turning point are all in the Austin area. Ingenious has some amazing milkshake style IPAs. They will be the closets to what you think of as a NEIPA

So, Ingenious is Houston (yet to try them but heard good things), and celestial/ turning point are in Dallas-Ft Worth. I actually live in DFW and TP/Celestial are the real deal. Must try them anytime you have the chance.

It almost seems the Austin breweries are making it a point to not do NEs.

 

[Dgallo]

So, Ingenious is Houston (yet to try them but heard good things), and celestial/ turning point are in Dallas-Ft Worth. I actually live in DFW and TP/Celestial are the real deal. Must try them anytime you have the chance.

It almost seems the Austin breweries are making it a point to not do NEs.

Gotcha. I do beer trades with a guy from Austin that always sends me beers from them so I just figured that’s where they were located. Sorry brother.