New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

NOw that is a nice color, what SRM are you calling it?

Thanks brother. Between 4-5 most likely

 

[1bottlerocket]

Both these beers look super awesome. Dgallo is helping with a grain bill and process, (Thanks!) and I am getting ready to give it a go. I am super excited. Will post details.

I realize this isn't the place for discussing, but I am also in the process of buying some new gear. I am planning on starting another thread in the equipment section. The plan is to go to a 3 vessel system for my first all-grain.

 

[NickC]

I’m a pretty firm believer in the long rest at 160-162 for most beers. I think it really helps with foam, mouthfeel, fullness.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Dgallo]

Both these beers look super awesome. Dgallo is helping with a grain bill and process, (Thanks!) and I am getting ready to give it a go. I am super excited. Will post details.

I realize this isn't the place for discussing, but I am also in the process of buying some new gear. I am planning on starting another thread in the equipment section. The plan is to go to a 3 vessel system for my first all-grain.

Im learning there are so many ways to skin a cat and come out with a delicious ipa. Different hops/hopping schedules, grain bills, yeast selections, water profile.. list goes on. American IPAs lead to the introduction of west coast, west coast IPAs lead to NEIPAS and now people are continue to experiment with NEIPAs, now milkshake and oat cream Ipas are becoming popular. Try some solid commercial versions and then attempt to brew them to see what your preference is. As long as your producing A solid beer, who cares how your doing it

 

[JohnConnor]

This is really no different than a recipe for say a West Coast style IPA. 2row, carafoam, Carahell or Honey Malt. The difference is yeast and water profile. Certain English Ale yeasts just don’t clear if they’re dry hopped after fermentation. This same beer made with Chico and a different water profile would probably clear. The yeast had flocced quite hard when the dry hops were added to this beer, it had cleared quite a bit. The more “stuff” in solution when you dry hop, the more “stuff” to drag down the oils you want in the finished beer.

This is yeast harvested from cans of Crooked Stave IPA.

I’m a pretty firm believer in the long rest at 160-162 for most beers. I think it really helps with foam, mouthfeel, fullness.


Still messing with water. Still don’t feel like I have that fully dialed. Mostly CaSo4 but some NaCl and just started using more KCL. We’ll see. Messing with adding certain salts to the kettle as well.

This beer is especially murky as it was dry hopped with a massive dose of Australian hops. Galaxy, Vic Secret, and a ton of Ella. It took a little longer to become more drinkable cause of all the polyphenols in those hops.

I second the alpha rest. I believe (and maybe it's confirmation bias) that my beers improved markedly when adding a rest at 162ish. Head for days. Perfect body.

I've become a huge fan of NaCl for my chloride addition. I always get this horrible minerally taste when I use a lot of CaCl. I don't get anything like that with NaCl. Plus, it's like adding salt to food. It amps up the flavor. I've gone up to about 100 ppm of Na without it tasting salty. At 100 ppm, if I really look for it, you do get a hint of salt on the tip of the tongue. But nothing overpowering.

 

[SRJHops]

I second the alpha rest. I believe (and maybe it's confirmation bias) that my beers improved markedly when adding a rest at 162ish. Head for days. Perfect body.

I've become a huge fan of NaCl for my chloride addition. I always get this horrible minerally taste when I use a lot of CaCl. I don't get anything like that with NaCl. Plus, it's like adding salt to food. It amps up the flavor. I've gone up to about 100 ppm of Na without it tasting salty. At 100 ppm, if I really look for it, you do get a hint of salt on the tip of the tongue. But nothing overpowering.

Appreciate the tip on the NaCl. I got some mineral taste in my 146 ppm Cl brew using CaCl. It did mellow out and disappear after a week or two, but I might try the NaCl if I taste it again...

 

[Genuine]

I’ve been happy with 160ish of Chlorides and 40’s Of sulfates with a touch of NaCl to finish up the rest of the chloride levels. Just brewed another batch today and I think the Raw wheat I’m using is really effecting my efficiency. I milled it three times by itself to see if that would help but I hit damn close the same numbers I did last brew day and I also did a 75 minute mash this time.

 

[ttuato]

Lacking esters fermented at 69-70f, held its haze but also held alot of yeast particulate even after cold crashing, fermented pretty identical to 1318. I've used it a few times usually around 80% attenuation

1318 and dryhop are much more expressive and clean up in the keg much quicker, just wasn't overly impressed with it.

I've got two more packets in fridge that I plan to use at some point with @Dgallo fermentation schedule to see if I can get more esters out of it

If I am not mistaken London Fog is in the same family as Conan. I believe that Conan is an oddbird for the english yeast famliy in that low temps are needed for ideal esters instead if high temps like 1318. According to several posts on the probrewer forum, the temp needed for Conan to throw stone fruit is 63 and underpitched at 40B. Accordingly that is my go to schedule for Conan (A04 Barbarian) and works for me as described on probrewer. (To be fair though I have never fermented it beyond 65 for day 1-4)

 

[couchsending]

Scored an 11lb bag of hand selected Citra from one of the West Coast’s better hop forward breweries... let’s just say it’s not a level playing field. I thought I had some decent Citra before... not even close.

 

[stickyfinger]

Scored an 11lb bag of hand selected Citra from one of the West Coast’s better hop forward breweries... let’s just say it’s not a level playing field. I thought I had some decent Citra before... not even close.

that’s ******* depressing

 

[IslandLizard]

I've become a huge fan of NaCl for my chloride addition. I always get this horrible minerally taste when I use a lot of CaCl. I don't get anything like that with NaCl. Plus, it's like adding salt to food. It amps up the flavor. I've gone up to about 100 ppm of Na without it tasting salty. At 100 ppm, if I really look for it, you do get a hint of salt on the tip of the tongue. But nothing overpowering.

Appreciate the tip on the NaCl. I got some mineral taste in my 146 ppm Cl brew using CaCl. It did mellow out and disappear after a week or two, but I might try the NaCl if I taste it again...

A little bit salt (Sodium) is good for beer flavor perception. 100 ppm of Na+ may not get in the way, it may even enhance a NEIPA, but surely is a boat load for most other beers.

As an alternative you could add the Potassium version, KCl, to raise your Cl- ions. Also makes good storage solution for your pH probe. 'Light' or 'Reduced Sodium' salt contains KCl.
Alpha Chemicals sells it, among other minerals useful in brewing and such.

I was even thinking of using Ammonium Chloride and Ammonium Sulphate as possible substitutes for CaCl and CaSO4, but am unsure whether the Ammonium ion is actually more detectable than Sodium, tasting even more salty. I've never seen references to it for use in beer.

 

[ttuato]

I joined the lowoxygenbrewing forum a while back and stumbled upon Weyerman Barke Pilser. I brewed a pilsner with it plus 5% carahell and 3% melanoiden malt about a month ago. It tastes and smells like honey, has awexome mouthfeel, and has unbelievable foam / lacing. Taking a que from @couchsending (no flaked adjuncts, or oats or wheat plus beta & alpha rests) I am going to brew my next NEIPA with the same grainbill.

 

[Braufessor]

Been a while since I chimed in...... been busy and I honestly have not really tried anything different or worth mentioning. Just been sticking to the basic updated recipe for the most part. However, a few weeks ago I was cleaning out my freezer. Lots of hops I had been stockpiling for quite a while. Some I just threw out (that had been opened). Others I condensed and vacuum packed, etc. At any rate, I had some "hop blends" that I had opened and used some of .... left overs were in vac-packed mason jars. I decided to just dump them all in a bag together. Roughly 2 pounds total I would guess. Rough estimate was probably 1 pound of 7 C's and probably a half pound each of Zythos and Falconer's Flight. Threw them all in a big bag together and mixed them thoroughly and vacuum packed.

Ended up brewing an IPA 2 weeks ago and kegged it today. Bittered with Warrior to 30 IBU at 60 min. Then threw an ounce of the blend in at 30 and another ounce at 5. 5 ounces during cooling and 5 ounces dry hop hop. Used 1272 yeast. 150:50 sulfate:chloride. Was kind of going for a west coast/NEIPA happy-medium. Sampled today as it went into keg..... tasted really great. I could see doing some more like this. Of course, nothing like a random, probably unrepeatable hop blend . At any rate, those hop blends are always a nice "go to" - especially for folks who do not want to buy some of the other hops by the pound.

In my experience, 7 C's is more of the "traditional"west coast hop flavor. Zythos and Falconers Flight are more toward the fruity/topical in my experience.

 

[Braufessor]

I joined the lowoxygenbrewing forum a while back and stumbled upon Weyerman Barke Pilser. I brewed a pilsner with it plus 5% carahell and 3% melanoiden malt about a month ago. It tastes and smells like honey, has awexome mouthfeel, and has unbelievable foam / lacing. Taking a que from @couchsending (no flaked adjuncts, or oats or wheat plus beta & alpha rests) I am going to brew my next NEIPA with the same grainbill.

Barke Pilsner is fantastic. It is all I use in pilsners/lagers. I buy Barke Pilsner and Barke Vienna by the sack. Love it.
** I do notice I have to adjust my mill to a slightly wider gap to accommodate it. Never tried it in NEIPA - but a great idea. I might have to give it a try too.

 

[Loud Brewing]

It's a beautiful hazy day here in SoCal, so it seemed to be the perfect time for me to break out my most recent neipa. This time I kept it simple and am pleased with the results.
I know there has been some discussion of Electric Brewing beers here in this thread, so pictured is their can release from yesterday next to mine for comparison. Also a couple pics of the brewhouse. (Note the bags of oat malt)

 

[Rainy]

I joined the lowoxygenbrewing forum a while back and stumbled upon Weyerman Barke Pilser. I brewed a pilsner with it plus 5% carahell and 3% melanoiden malt about a month ago. It tastes and smells like honey, has awexome mouthfeel, and has unbelievable foam / lacing. Taking a que from @couchsending (no flaked adjuncts, or oats or wheat plus beta & alpha rests) I am going to brew my next NEIPA with the same grainbill.

You have a recommendation for mash profile in terms of time and temperatures?

 

[ttuato]

For Pils - 146 for 30min & 162 for 30min

For Neipa - 152-154 for 30min & 162 for 30min

Add mashout of 10 @168 if you sparge - I do full volume no sparge so I skip this step.

 

[uSlackr]

I’ve seen you reference Scott and his studies a lot, which is great, I enjoy reading his reviews a lot too. I would also recommend Tom Shellhammer, an actual brewing scientist (no knock on Scott).

Relevant hop articles are under the Research tab here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.researchgate.net/profile/Th_Shellhammer/amp

IMO, Stan's value is in talking about other's work. He has an audience and studies the topic. And I had no idea who those two mentioned were.

 

[uSlackr]

... with Brad Smith eating and smacking his lips in the background the whole time Stan was talking. So far he talked about the haze being mostly proteins, some hops compounds, very little yeast which I think most people have come around on.

I didn't notice Brad's eating, but you would think after 189 shows he would have learned how to interview. He leaves valuable information from the guest just hanging while moving onto the next question. It's like he isn't listening sometime.
Brad I love you, but...

 

[uSlackr]

The only person that is putting out any new info on the style with true evidence and full disclosure on the studies he does or ones he references is Scott Janish. I’ve learned to solely depend on his finding and my own experiences.

Where can I find Scott's Janish's info?

 

[Dgallo]

Where can I find Scott's Janish's info?

http://scottjanish.com

 

[Andre3000]

Need to give a shout out to Imperial Yeast here. I had a question on starters / harvesting / repeated pitching regarding A24 because of its blend of conan and Sacch trois and perhaps differing propagation rates of the individual strains and within 24 hours I got this response:

Hey Andre,

Thanks for reaching out! You are correct, the A04 Barbarian and A20 Citrus blend is 50-50%, but due to the differing flocculation rates, that ratio will change from gen to gen. When you harvest, you can homogenize to the best of your ability, but still expect some drift over time. Let me know if there are other questions that come up!

Cheers,
Nina

To be honest I didn't even consider flocculation and harvesting. I then posed the question regarding the starter and the answer was the same:

Andre,

You can expect that ratio to be very close to 50-50 with a prop. Just pitch the whole starter (do not decant) when you pitch.

Cheers,
Nina

So basically, if you aren't entirely homogenizing, your A24 will drift which by nature means no harvesting, only overbuilt and non-decanted starters if you want to keep it as consistent as possible.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Need to give a shout out to Imperial Yeast here. I had a question on starters / harvesting / repeated pitching regarding A24 because of its blend of conan and Sacch trois and perhaps differing propagation rates of the individual strains and within 24 hours I got this response:

Hey Andre,

Thanks for reaching out! You are correct, the A04 Barbarian and A20 Citrus blend is 50-50%, but due to the differing flocculation rates, that ratio will change from gen to gen. When you harvest, you can homogenize to the best of your ability, but still expect some drift over time. Let me know if there are other questions that come up!

Cheers,
Nina

To be honest I didn't even consider flocculation and harvesting. I then posed the question regarding the starter and the answer was the same:

Andre,

You can expect that ratio to be very close to 50-50 with a prop. Just pitch the whole starter (do not decant) when you pitch.

Cheers,
Nina

So basically, if you aren't entirely homogenizing, your A24 will drift which by nature means no harvesting, only overbuilt and non-decanted starters if you want to keep it as consistent as possible.

Side note I recently made a Citra IPA with a24 and it came out fantastic. I liked it better than the a38 that I usually use. Cheers

 

[Dgallo]

There are a lot great yeast out there for this style. I’ve tried almost all of the common on but I have to give credit where credit is due, A24 is the star of the show for me. If you haven’t tried it yet, you have too

 

[WBCo]

Scored an 11lb bag of hand selected Citra from one of the West Coast’s better hop forward breweries... let’s just say it’s not a level playing field. I thought I had some decent Citra before... not even close.

Agree with this 100%. I brewed one of my recipes at a smaller brew pub that didn't have the hops on hand that we needed. They bought a few boxes (with sealed 22# bags in them) from one of the larger breweries here in MD. It's been a few years, but I believe they said they purchased them from Flying Dog. Anyway, that was the best version of my beer that I've ever brewed and the only difference was the hops. Credit to the brewery, they even contacted RVA yeast labs and got a pitch for the batch because that's what I was using at the time.

 

[BeerFst]

anyone using A24 adding extra lactic acid just before fermentation for the sacc trois to munch on? I messaged imperial about A24 also and asked about Lactic acid additions and ethyl lactate but they didnt have any information on that. I have read several accounts on previous posts about adding several mLs per gallon on this forum and MTF, so I'm definitely planning to do it. Just wondering if there are any more anecdotes so that i can dial in my addition.

 

[couchsending]

anyone using A24 adding extra lactic acid just before fermentation for the sacc trois to munch on? I messaged imperial about A24 also and asked about Lactic acid additions and ethyl lactate but they didnt have any information on that. I have read several accounts on previous posts about adding several mLs per gallon on this forum and MTF, so I'm definitely planning to do it. Just wondering if there are any more anecdotes so that i can dial in my addition.

Wouldn’t that be based on the old assumption that Sacch Trois was actually Brett? If it’s not Brett then would it create those flavors by converting lactic acid?

 

[Sbe2]

Having not tried A24, can you repitch this? I am cheap and like to overbuild my starters to harvest yeast. Knowing that A24 is a blend, its seems like it is not a good for the repeatability of a beer.

 

[Dgallo]

Having not tried A24, can you repitch this? I am cheap and like to overbuild my starters to harvest yeast. Knowing that A24 is a blend, its seems like it is not a good for the repeatability of a beer.

You can repitch from overbuilt starters. I don’t know for how long though, I’ve only done 3 generation that way. I didn’t notice any sway in the profile but it’s bound to happen eventually

 

[BeerFst]

Wouldn’t that be based on the old assumption that Sacch Trois was actually Brett? If it’s not Brett then would it create those flavors by converting lactic acid?

I believe that is where it started, but the anecdotes I read suggest that 644 still makes the conversion. The thread below is from 2015, right around the time that WL disclosed it was actually sacc, so no doubt there is some confusion still going, but see post #12, specifically. There was also a response from Dan Pixley on MTF about 644 consuming it but he didnt provide any hard data for it. There was a study on brett done by Chad Yakobson on the topic but 644 was not included (not sure if this was before or after the WL report). This study actually came up in the conversation with imperial.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/wlp644-as-primary-yeast-in-sour.526806/

In any case, that's why I was asking for more anecdotes. I have read as low as 1mL/gallon (I was planning on 5-10ml for a 5g batch), but also as much as 20mL/g (poster confirmed it was 88% too). I would like to do a split batch comparison on the topic but the reality is my brewing is far from regular. I still havent ruled it out though, but have several other beers in the pipeline that need to be made.