New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[couchsending]

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I used 12 oz in a 5 gallon batch and didn’t get what I wanted out of the hop.

I will have to try Sabro some time.

Be careful. Sabro is THE most potent hop I’ve ever used and I’m pretty sure I’ve used em all. Or at least all the crazy aroma hops.

It smells better out of the bag than even the best Galaxy I’ve ever had. However in large quantities the wood/cedar note gets really strong. I want to brew a Sabro beer with only an ounce or two in the dry hop and see how potent it is. I think you can literally use half as much as even Citra or Denali or mosaic. It’s nuts how strong it is.

 

[Sbe2]

Be careful. Sabro is THE most potent hop I’ve ever used and I’m pretty sure I’ve used em all. Or at least all the crazy aroma hops.

It smells better out of the bag than even the best Galaxy I’ve ever had. However in large quantities the wood/cedar note gets really strong. I want to brew a Sabro beer with only an ounce or two in the dry hop and see how potent it is. I think you can literally use half as much as even Citra or Denali or mosaic. It’s nuts how strong it is.

Have you dared to use Galaxy, Vic Secret, and Sabro in one batch?

 

[AnttiLeh]

Hmmph, my NEIPA took 2 days to start bubbling and i had to give it a good shake to start it.
What do you guys think, should i put my dry hop now like in recipe (2-3 days after ferment) or wait 2-3 days more
because its started to bubble last night?

 

[Dgallo]

Hmmph, my NEIPA took 2 days to start bubbling and i had to give it a good shake to start it.
What do you guys think, should i put my dry hope now like in recipe (2-3 after ferment) or wait 2-3 days more
because its started to bubble last night?

If youre trying to go for the “biotransfermation” dryhop then yeah go now(which only a handful of Ale strains can do to certain hop oils anyway.. it’s pointless in my opinion but to each their own) If your hopping early to eliminate the oxidation component, then wait until fermentation is almost over.

 

[couchsending]

Have you dared to use Galaxy, Vic Secret, and Sabro in one batch?

I have done that combo and even at smaller quantities the Sabro still stood out. The brewers I’ve talked to that have used it and who’s beers I really like say no more than 15–20% of the total hop bill should be Sabro.

 

[beervoid]

I have done that combo and even at smaller quantities the Sabro still stood out. The brewers I’ve talked to that have used it and who’s beers I really like say no more than 15–20% of the total hop bill should be Sabro.

Could you describe the most prominent flavors you get from it?

 

[couchsending]

Could you describe the most prominent flavors you get from it?

It smells more like an Australian hop than anything from the US. It’s insanely tropical. In lower amounts it adds a really cool tropical note and an interesting coconut flavor/aroma. However when you go with too much of it the coconut turns into cedar almost. It gets really woody.

 

[Genuine]

Just found it interesting that Treehouse's latest beer "Spring" claims to use only 2-Row and Dextrin Malt for it so after my planned batch of NEIPA, I'm going to see how it goes with 70% 2-Row, 15% Oats and 15% Carapils. I know Brulosophy did an xBeermnt on the Biotrans dry hop vs traditional however I believe the grist has a lot to do with being a vehicle for all of those hop oils and flavor compounds.

 

[couchsending]

Just found it interesting that Treehouse's latest beer "Spring" claims to use only 2-Row and Dextrin Malt for it so after my planned batch of NEIPA, I'm going to see how it goes with 70% 2-Row, 15% Oats and 15% Carapils. I know Brulosophy did an xBeermnt on the Biotrans dry hop vs traditional however I believe the grist has a lot to do with being a vehicle for all of those hop oils and flavor compounds.

There’s no wheat or oats in any of their hoppy beers, except Snow.

 

[Dgallo]

There’s no wheat or oats in any of their hoppy beers, except Snow.

Could you post your reference that shows their grain bills. I’ve never found anything other then extremely vague information from them saying “assortments of pale malts” or “British malts”

 

[couchsending]

Could you post your reference that shows their grain bills. I’ve never found anything other then extremely vague information from them saying “assortments of pale malts” or “British malts”

Nate has stated it on Twitter.

 

[NickC]

This is my latest batch, the one we think may be oxidized. I will say the flavor is beginning to round out after almost 2 weeks in the keg, but I also added a last minute citra keg hop. After 3 days carbing the beer was lacking any sort of flavor so I removed it, depressurized the keg, and added 2 oz at room temp for 36-48 hours.

 

[SRJHops]

This is my latest batch, the one we think may be oxidized. I will say the flavor is beginning to round out after almost 2 weeks in the keg, but I also added a last minute citra keg hop. After 3 days carbing the beer was lacking any sort of flavor so I removed it, depressurized the keg, and added 2 oz at room temp for 36-48 hours.

View attachment 619357

Doesn't look too oxidized to me. I bottle mine, but I have found they taste best after 5 or 6 weeks in the bottle. I think it takes a while for the hops to blend together... Seems like it might be the same for kegging?

 

[NickC]

Doesn't look too oxidized to me. I bottle mine, but I have found they taste best after 5 or 6 weeks in the bottle. I think it takes a while for the hops to blend together... Seems like it might be the same for kegging?

Possibly. But do yours go from flavorless to juice bomb? I’ve had plenty batches that have stayed looking like this and flavorless. Something is up. One thing I haven’t explored is PH. Currently, I start from RO and add my CaCL and Gypsum 2:1 ratio, but aside from that it’s your standard grist with 12-14oz hops on average - halfish whirlpool, halfish single dry hop. Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

 

[SRJHops]

Possibly. But does it go from flavorless to juice bomb? Something is up. One thing I haven’t explored is PH. I start from RO and add my CaCL and Gypsum 2:1 ratio, but aside from that it’s your standard grist with 12-14oz hops on average. Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

I usually try mine after 1 week of carbing, and while they aren't totally flavorless, they aren't very tasty yet. After 2 weeks it's better, and after 5-6 weeks I am finally getting really nice flavor and aroma. My previous batch, with 18 ounces of hops for a 6-gallon batch, was my best yet -- it was getting closer to my goal of tasting like King Sue from Toppling Goliath.

My latest 6-gallon batch only has 14 ounces of hops, because everyone keeps telling me that less is more... The jury is still out, though it does seem to be on a good path in terms of flavor (I used Galaxy, Citra, Mosaic, and Simcoe) -- I'll know for sure in another few weeks!

I am still learning about water, and I tried the 2:1 Cl to So ratio for my latest batch (it ended up 147 cl to 87 so) that is carbonating. I can say that so far I don't notice any change in mouthfeel (or softness) from the water, and I did detect a slight chemical taste (which now seems to be fading). For my next batch, I am going to ditch the high Cl and reverse it, going for a West Coast IPA water profile to make the hops pop, so 2:1 So to Cl. Maybe the next one will be balanced between the two...

I do try for 5.4 mash ph, using the water calculator for the chemical additions, but I don't measure actual (I didn't get the ph meter I had on my X-mas wish list).

But I feel you on the punch! Maybe that's what we are ALL chasing?! I do believe it comes from heavy whirlpool additions and then late dry hopping. Not sure about the biotrans addition, but I figure two dry hop additions can't hurt, so I do it.

Now, as to the amount of hops, the types, and the ratios for hot and cold side additions... well, that's up for so much debate and experimentation! Right now I split 50-50 for hot and cold side hops.

The processes I am most interested in now are the ratios and amount of hops people are using for hot and cold side. I'd love to hear from people who do, say, 70% hot side and 30% dry hop, or the reverse!

I am also interested in the length and temps for hop stands. The latest Janish recipe seems to suggest that long hop stands are not necessary, and stands under 185 aren't necessary either. That is different from what I previously read and what a lot of people do... Ah, conflicting advice -- that's what makes this fun, right?

UPDATE: After 3 weeks in the bottle I am now noticing the softness from the 2:1 Cl to So adjustment. I wasn't expecting it, but I tried a bottle last night and was really struck by how soft it felt. Now, I am not personally all that interested in that aspect of this style, so I still plan to reverse the ratio for my next batch, but I do think it's cool how much the water profile can affect the beer. As for the taste, the chemical taste has receded, and the hop flavor is good, but at this point I think all the 14 ounces did was reduce the flavor -- so I think I'll go back to 18 ounces next time, and maybe even experiment with some of it being cryo.

 

[leesmith]

Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

Please post a recipe and process in detail.

 

[Dgallo]

Possibly. But does it go from flavorless to juice bomb? Something is up. One thing I haven’t explored is PH. I start from RO and add my CaCL and Gypsum 2:1 ratio, but aside from that it’s your standard grist with 12-14oz hops on average. Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

Instead of focusing on the ratio of what your adding to your water, you should be focusing on the ratio of the individual minerals your adjusting for..., in your case you’re talking about chloride to sulfate ratio. But remember 2:1 could be 40ppm to 20ppm. Much different beer than 180ppm to 90ppm

 

[nick sekerak]

I also use RO water and when inputting my water report using bru'n water i have about a 5.0 PH so its a little low, i shoot for 5.3 normally. Thats using a similar grain bill to the OP recipe. You may want to add some baking soda to up your PH depending on how you grain bill/water is.

 

[NickC]

Please post a recipe and process in detail.

 

[NickC]

Instead of focusing on the ratio of what your adding to your water, you should be focusing on the ratio of the individual minerals your adjusting for..., in your case you’re talking about chloride to sulfate ratio. But remember 2:1 could be 40ppm to 20ppm. Much different beer than 180ppm to 90ppm

Understand. I target 150:75

 

[nick sekerak]

My last batch i tried 295 ppm Sulfate & 164 ppm CaCl and it was better then 120:120. I think i will be trying 75:150 next to figure out what tastes best with my recipe.

 

[Dgallo]

Understand. I target 150:75

You’re fine there. I’m a firm believer that a healthy and proper fermentation is one of the most important parts in the final presentation of a NE. Gettting that clean desired peachie ester profile can elevate the aroma and flavor so much

 

[nick sekerak]

i noticed off the bat your mash seems high to me, i have been using 153* and been working for me. I have tried 149-156 but 153 is the best results i think for my recipe. You mashing in higher would only make it seem sweeter.

 

[NickC]

You’re fine there. I’m a firm believer that a healthy and proper fermentation is one of the most important parts in the final presentation of a NE. Gettting that clean desired peachie ester profile can elevate the aroma and flavor so much

Yeah, I’ve seen your approach to fermenting. I may try to ferment a little higher to try to throw some more esters.

 

[leesmith]

View attachment 619375

A lot of different grain there.
And lactose.
And sugar.

I digress.

Try cold crashing before dry hopping. Finish fermenting...crash for two days...warm up a bit and dry hop.

 

[NickC]

i noticed off the bat your mash seems high to me, i have been using 153* and been working for me. I have tried 149-156 but 153 is the best results i think for my recipe. You mashing in higher would only make it seem sweeter.

Yea I was trying to finish sweeter with a little more body. OG was lower than I was hoping for so the yeast worked it down to 1.013.

 

[NickC]

A lot of different grain there.
And lactose.
And sugar.

I digress.

Try cold crashing before dry hopping. Finish fermenting...crash for two days...warm up a bit and dry hop.

Is it really? I’ve got to say I’ve seen much more. I know it’s not necessary but it gives a little more than just the straight 2-row and wheat/oats. The dextrose/lactose were late adjustments.

Will do on the crash/ferment.

 

[Dgallo]

I mash high 155. My goal is to finish at 1.016. I think it’s great for NE IPAS and benefit the flavor and body

 

[SRJHops]

So, on a related tangent, I was wondering about why my bottle conditioned beers get so much better over time. Turns out that bottle conditioning has advantages over force carbonating. The yeast scrubs the oxygen from the bottle, and the beer keeps evolving and mixing the hops. Interesting stuff, for those who bottle...

"there are distinct advantages to bottle conditioning that are harder to derive from force-carbonated beer that may also have its yeast filtered out, killed through pasteurization, or present but in too-small a quantity to make any contribution."

"The real advantage in bottle conditioning...comes from the activity of the yeast, not the CO2 they produce. First, in moving through their life cycle and fermenting sugar, the yeast also remove something else from their environment: oxygen. Oxygen is a real enemy of beer, accelerating staling and adding off-flavors, and bottle conditioned beers have a living advantage in the bottle that will take up small amounts of residual oxygen that may have been picked up in the packaging process (from the air in the tubing used to transfer into the bottle or oxygen in the head space air within the bottle itself)."

"leaving living yeast in the bottle means that the overall flavor of the beer can continue to evolve and change in subtle ways. Beers that will be aged for some length of time can develop, with the help of live yeast, mature flavors that can’t otherwise form."

https://beerconnoisseur.com/articles/its-alive-bottle-conditioned-beer

 

[Dgallo]

So, on a related tangent, I was wondering about why my bottle conditioned beers get so much better over time. Turns out that bottle conditioning has advantages over force carbonating. The yeast scrubs the oxygen from the bottle, and the beer keeps evolving and mixing the hops. Interesting stuff, for those who bottle...

"there are distinct advantages to bottle conditioning that are harder to derive from force-carbonated beer that may also have its yeast filtered out, killed through pasteurization, or present but in too-small a quantity to make any contribution."

"The real advantage in bottle conditioning...comes from the activity of the yeast, not the CO2 they produce. First, in moving through their life cycle and fermenting sugar, the yeast also remove something else from their environment: oxygen. Oxygen is a real enemy of beer, accelerating staling and adding off-flavors, and bottle conditioned beers have a living advantage in the bottle that will take up small amounts of residual oxygen that may have been picked up in the packaging process (from the air in the tubing used to transfer into the bottle or oxygen in the head space air within the bottle itself)."

"leaving living yeast in the bottle means that the overall flavor of the beer can continue to evolve and change in subtle ways. Beers that will be aged for some length of time can develop, with the help of live yeast, mature flavors that can’t otherwise form."

https://beerconnoisseur.com/articles/its-alive-bottle-conditioned-beer

All those positives are really a stretch.... and would only pertain to people who don’t use proper practices to eliminate oxygen.