New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

It can only heat. It's just a temp controller (with wort probe) that is attached to a heating pad that I tape around the carboy. Nothing too fancy, but it makes it possible to make ales in the winter in my cold basement. Otherwise it would have to be lagers! New England Lager anyone?!

Ok gotcha. But yeah Jack’s Abbey Craft lagers in MA is famous for making beautiful IPL’s. I’d say go for it. They really show case the hops

 

[SRJHops]

I totally get if you have a process that works for you then go for it. It's when the advice is given to others as if there is no consequence that I feel the need to play devil's advocate and give the other side.

This particular subject strikes a nerve with me as I hear so many folks trying to brew NEIPAs where their primary focus is The Haze (or in most cases The Murk). The goal is a tasty beer; the haze is a consequence of of the ingredients/yeast choice and possibly the timing of the dry hopping.

In my limited brewing experience, I've seen so much misinformation on forums that I stick to actual research (not xbmts) and written books with solid references. IMO just because a NEIPA looks a bit different than other beers, doesn't mean that traditional tried and true brewing practices shouldn't be followed.

OTOH, people have different goals and what matters to one may not matter at all to another. Sh!t, half the new breweries I go to these days have ZERO head retention and they could care less...why would they as their taprooms are packed. Stability? Who cares, the beer will be gone in a week. So for that reason, I say do whatever works for you...just don't say that universally agreed upon literature doesn't apply just because.

Can't disagree with anything you've written... But I will say that most of the brewing books I've read don't cover these advanced and/or emerging brewing topics. Heck, most still say to transfer to secondary and don't even mention oxidation. Can you recommend any new advanced brewing books? Somebody must be writing a NEIPA book, right?!

There's a joke in here somewhere, but if you ask 10 homebrewers about the best way to brew NEIPA's you'll get 10 different answers. I think the key is to consider it all, try it yourself, and keep adding the techniques that work...

I do appreciate hearing the other side of most discussions, so keep up the devil's advocate role!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Scott Janish has a "science" book at the proofing stage - The New IPA or something like that - which should be out in a couple of months and should hopefully be the book you're looking for.

 

[leesmith]

Can't disagree with anything you've written... But I will say that most of the brewing books I've read don't cover these advanced and/or emerging brewing topics. Heck, most still say to transfer to secondary and don't even mention oxidation. Can you recommend any new advanced brewing books? Somebody must be writing a NEIPA book, right?!

There's a joke in here somewhere, but if you ask 10 homebrewers about the best way to brew NEIPA's you'll get 10 different answers. I think the key is to consider it all, try it yourself, and keep adding the techniques that work...

I do appreciate hearing the other side of most discussions, so keep up the devil's advocate role!

I agree also.

My homebrew career started right around the same time these hazy beers started getting popular. Heady Topper was this new exciting beer people were waiting in line for...at the time Kate the Great was a stout people lined up for in Portsmouth New Hampshire....other than that and maybe Pliney caused people to be so fanatic. Now look at the lines everywhere.

So for me...it’s gone from a landscape of very little information to information overload on how to brew this style. We are so lucky to live at a time to see the evolution of this.

These discussions are great and sometimes seem heated but really I think most of us involved in these forums can get around that and concentrate on the focus of brewing the best possible beer and sharing those techniques and ideas to do so.

This book seems to be quite a hit with serious brewers and homebrewers alike and wish I could afford it:

Technology Brewing & Malting https://www.amazon.com/dp/3921690773/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

*Edit...The book is available other places for much cheeper.

 

[drez77]

Somebody must be writing a NEIPA book, right?!

Scott Janish has one coming out. https://scottjanish.com/book-update/

ETA - I should have read further

 

[Hannabrew]

I agree also.

My homebrew career started right around the same time these hazy beers started getting popular. Heady Topper was this new exciting beer people were waiting in line for...at the time Kate the Great was a stout people lined up for in Portsmouth New Hampshire....other than that and maybe Pliney caused people to be so fanatic. Now look at the lines everywhere.

So for me...it’s gone from a landscape of very little information to information overload on how to brew this style. We are so lucky to live at a time to see the evolution of this.

These discussions are great and sometimes seem heated but really I think most of us involved in these forums can get around that and concentrate on the focus of brewing the best possible beer and sharing those techniques and ideas to do so.

This book seems to be quite a hit with serious brewers and homebrewers alike and wish I could afford it:

Technology Brewing & Malting https://www.amazon.com/dp/3921690773/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

*Edit...The book is available other places for much cheeper.

Read the Lowoxygenbrewing blogs/forums as they have basically done the hard work for us in a) aquiring and reading all the vital textbooks and other references and more importantly b) distilling it into the important things we can do at the homebrew level

Even if you don't agree that hot side oxidation is a concern, everything else is undisputed professional brewing techniques

The thing I love about those forums is everything is backed by actual professional research and references. Whether or not you want to go to that length is up to you but at least you know the gold standard and you can decide how close you want to get.

Most everywhere else is a lot of opinions with one person's observations to back them up.

 

[leesmith]

Read the Lowoxygenbrewing blogs/forums as they have basically done the hard work for us in a) aquiring and reading all the vital textbooks and other references and more importantly b) distilling it into the important things we can do at the homebrew level

Even if you don't agree that hot side oxidation is a concern, everything else is undisputed professional brewing techniques

The thing I love about those forums is everything is backed by actual professional research and references. Whether or not you want to go to that length is up to you but at least you know the gold standard and you can decide how close you want to get.

Most everywhere else is a lot of opinions with one person's observations to back them up.

I’ve been reading over those forums and the blog for some time now. Solid stuff there which has caused me to slow down on making assumptions.

As I understand it, hot side oxidation exits. Big breweries aren’t as susceptible to it as homebrewers due to sheer volume and surface area. I’m sure if there was a darling style of beer that the homebrew community focused on other then IPA’s such as Pilsners, the focus of keeping low oxygen on the hot side would be less taboo. A few years ago the popular opinion amongst home brewers was very lax towards the cold side effects of low oxygen. Now, beside very beginners, home brewers frequently mention they do closed transfers or purge their lines and such.

The forum was created because they got so tired of being severely criticized and questioned about their practices. I wish that the Homebrewtalk community was a little more open in this regard.

Anyways...I’d still like to get my hands on a copy of Kunze.

 

[Dgallo]

The forum was created because they got so tired of being severely criticized and questioned about their practices. I wish that the Homebrewtalk community was a little more open in this regard.

I concur. I know I’m guilty myself of this from time to time, just ask my wife how stubborn I can be lol. but like you said we all need to be slightly more open, my self included. However, I believe everyone truly does mean well and are confident and happy with the beers they are producing with their own process. They are speaking their truth, whether it’s evidence based or annecdotal through their experience. I wish we all could just trade our beers and have a real conversation about it.

For example, @ttuato sent me one of his beers that I got yesterday. We exchanged numbers and got to have a conversation on my review, discussion of practices and just talked a little about beer in general. I sent him one out and I’m sure the conversation will happen again once he receives it. As simple as this may have been, got me thinking about how we really are a small community of folks that all have similar appreciations and ambitions. The more open we are, the more we can learn.

 

[leesmith]

Shellhammer got back to me today.

They used these bags in the dry hopping experiment:

https://www.ecobags.com/Organic-Cloth-Sack-large?sc=2&category=35

Link to study:
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...rofiles-of-beer.pdf?origin=publication_detail

I got to admit those bags don’t look that permeable.

*Edit...And one more question. How much of the hop oils get absorbed by a bag like that and not dispersed in the liquid?

 

[marchuk96]

Shellhammer got back to me today.

They used these bags in the dry hopping experiment:

https://www.ecobags.com/Organic-Cloth-Sack-large?sc=2&category=35

Link to study:
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...rofiles-of-beer.pdf?origin=publication_detail

I got to admit those bags don’t look that permeable.

*Edit...And one more question. How much of the hop oils get absorbed by a bag like that and not dispersed in the liquid?

My god!! I can't see much of anything soaking threw those bags...there has to be a huge amounts of oil getting trapped in that thing...yikes!!

 

[Dgallo]

My god!! I can't see much of anything soaking threw those bags...there has to be a huge amounts of oil getting trapped in that thing...yikes!!

Definitely. Goes against the whole correlation between surface area and extraction. As surface area increases so does extraction.

 

[leesmith]

Definitely. Goes against the whole correlation between surface area and extraction. As surface area increases so does extraction.

And my thought is that the bag most likely absorbs more oil based than water based substances...causing a greater ratio of chlorophyll and tannins from the leafy material in the beer....and then tea/herbal notes in the finished product....especially at higher dosage rates.

Just a theory.

 

[Dgallo]

And my thought is that the bag most likely absorbs more oil based than water based substances...causing a greater ratio of chlorophyll and tannins from the leafy material. And more tea/herbal notes in the finished product especially at higher dosage rates.

Just a theory.

I would get behind that too. Being a organic cloth bag I would assume a portion of the oils would be absorbed by it

 

[BrewCityBaller]

Somewhat on topic here: If you use loose hops while dryhopping, how do you keep hop matter from making its way into the keg?

I am using a SS Brew Bucket and always use a stainless steel mesh tube to hold hops because I fear if I don't the dip tube will clog or hop matter will make it into the keg.

 

[plazola86]

I used to use a bag now I use a SS hop filter since I have a plate chiller but I always squeezed the bag to get all that hoppy goodness out of it. It is literally hop juice that you don't even get from throwing them straight in the kettle. Even with my SS filter I strain as much "hop juice" out of it as I can by shaking it and bouncing the hops around. Just makes since to me NOT to leave all that behind.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

I used to use a bag now I use a SS hop filter since I have a plate chiller but I always squeezed the bag to get all that hoppy goodness out of it. It is literally hop juice that you don't even get from throwing them straight in the kettle. Even with my SS filter I strain as much "hop juice" out of it as I can by shaking it and bouncing the hops around. Just makes since to me NOT to leave all that behind.

That sounds like you are talking about steeping/flameout hops, no? I am concerned about dry hopping in the fermentation vessel. Opening it up to squeeze out a hop bag would be a big O2 no no.

 

[plazola86]

Somewhat on topic here: If you use loose hops while dryhopping, how do you keep hop matter from making its way into the keg?

I am using a SS Brew Bucket and always use a stainless steel mesh tube to hold hops because I fear if I don't the dip tube will clog or hop matter will make it into the keg.

This is my kegging set up. Push beer under pressure - filter - into CO2 purged keg. These filters are pretty small so a cold crash is needed. I tried using this recently with no cold crash, had 12 oz in the dry hop clogged twice. Gave up on it, transferred it with a hose and gravity. Then my keg post clogged twice, then my tap before I finally gave up and dumped the beer. live and learn

 

[plazola86]

That sounds like you are talking about steeping/flameout hops, no? I am concerned about dry hopping in the fermentation vessel. Opening it up to squeeze out a hop bag would be a big O2 no no.

Yeah I was talking about the hot side hops being bagged lol bad timing

 

[Dgallo]

Somewhat on topic here: If you use loose hops while dryhopping, how do you keep hop matter from making its way into the keg?

I am using a SS Brew Bucket and always use a stainless steel mesh tube to hold hops because I fear if I don't the dip tube will clog or hop matter will make it into the keg.

Try cold crashing w/o oxygen exposure. I dry hop loose 2-3 days before kegging and cold crash for 16-24 hours and almost all hop material drops out. Every so often a little gets in the keg but being on 10-12 psi, never an issue

 

[BrewCityBaller]

Try cold crashing w/o oxygen exposure. I dry hop loose 2-3 days before kegging and cold crash for 16-24 hours and almost all hop material drops out. Every so often a little gets in the keg but being on 10-12 psi, never an issue

Follow up question then: how are you cold crashing without O2 exposure?

 

[Dgallo]

@BrewCityBaller Purging fermenter with co2

 

[marchuk96]

Follow up question then: how are you cold crashing without O2 exposure?

What do you have for a fermenter?? I always cold crash my fermenter after dry hop...usually 24 hrs as close to freezing as you can get it...the bulk of the hops literally just drop to the bottom...I also lean my fermenter back so that everything settles and coagulates away from my spigot...and then when I transfer I do the same thing ...keeping fermenter tilted back ...the close to freezing temp usually solidifies whatever is on bottom pretty well so it doesn't move much...but here's the thing for when i crash my fermenter...its a fermonster from more beer so its plastic..the crash causes it to suck in air threw the airlock...so what I have done in the past is put a really long blow off tube on it in a cup of star san mix...this way it only draws the mix and no air...but it can also cause it to try to collapse on itself because of that draw..so i have to have to be careful...I've also seen some people talk about taking a co2 filled balloon and putting it over the airlock so that it draws only co2..with a glass carboy or keg this would be a non issue obviously since both can be sealed and are not made of plastic

 

[BrewCityBaller]

What do you have for a fermenter?? I always cold crash my fermenter after dry hop...usually 24 hrs as close to freezing as you can get it...the bulk of the hops literally just drop to the bottom...I also lean my fermenter back so that everything settles and coagulates away from my spigot...and then when I transfer I do the same thing ...keeping fermenter tilted back ...the close to freezing temp usually solidifies whatever is on bottom pretty well so it doesn't move much...but here's the thing for when i crash my fermenter...its a fermonster from more beer so its plastic..the crash causes it to suck in air threw the airlock...so what I have done in the past is put a really long blow off tube on it in a cup of star san mix...this way it only draws the mix and no air...but it can also cause it to try to collapse on itself because of that draw..so i have to have to be careful...I've also seen some people talk about taking a co2 filled balloon and putting it over the airlock so that it draws only co2..with a glass carboy or keg this would be a non issue obviously since both can be sealed and are not made of plastic

I have an Ss Brewtech Brew Bucket. My problem is exactly as you describe. Thankfully not an NEIPA, but I ruined a batch recently when half a gallon of sanitizer got sucked back into the beer. My concern then is that even a cup of sanitizer and a long hose would still draw in all the sanitizer and plenty of air. I may have to try the balloon angle.

 

[Dgallo]

I have an Ss Brewtech Brew Bucket. My problem is exactly as you describe. Thankfully not an NEIPA, but I ruined a batch recently when half a gallon of sanitizer got sucked back into the beer. My concern then is that even a cup of sanitizer and a long hose would still draw in all the sanitizer and plenty of air. I may have to try the balloon angle.

You could always attach your Co2 line to the bucket. Purge it and slightly pressurize it, then turn off the gas and keep the line connected to it so it turns into a closed vessel

 

[marchuk96]

I have an Ss Brewtech Brew Bucket. My problem is exactly as you describe. Thankfully not an NEIPA, but I ruined a batch recently when half a gallon of sanitizer got sucked back into the beer. My concern then is that even a cup of sanitizer and a long hose would still draw in all the sanitizer and plenty of air. I may have to try the balloon angle.

I hear ya...I think the biggest concern is the draw of sanitizer and the collapse of fermenter and obviously the possible ingres of o2...I have yet to try the balloon idea for myself as I have no way to get co2 into a balloon effectively...

 

[plazola86]

I have an anvil fermenter (similar to SS brewtech bucket) just got this blow tie to use as a spunding valve. Put this on at the end of fermentation at a low pressure with a solid bung. No air suck back. if you have a plastic fermenter brew hardware sells these. Not many good reviews but probably still working out the parts.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ccguardianv2.htm

 

[tld6008]

I hear ya...I think the biggest concern is the draw of sanitizer and the collapse of fermenter and obviously the possible ingres of o2...I have yet to try the balloon idea for myself as I have no way to get co2 into a balloon effectively...

This is what I do, rubber band a short piece of tubing onto one of those flimsy produce bags (unused) The tube will fit into the end of the blow off, fill the bag with CO2, hold finger over end and insert into end of blowoff, start cold crash. The picture shows the result after crashing from 72 to 45 and the bag is nearly collapsed. Very simple and no O2 or starsan sucked in. I have always had the hops drop by 45 degrees.

 

[Cartman98]

What's everyone's experience on when the taste is optimal? I brewed 6 Jan and Kegged and force carbed Tuesday. It tastes green to me, but super citrus flavors. Lol my wife says it tastes like dirt though.

 

[tld6008]

What's everyone's experience on when the taste is optimal? I brewed 6 Jan and Kegged and force carbed Tuesday. It tastes green to me, but super citrus flavors. Lol my wife says it tastes like dirt though.

Mine usually tastes great right away, I have made some other NEPAS that took a week to mellow out, usually a hop bite issue. Wait a week (if you can) and see how it is.

 

[Dgallo]

Mine usually tastes great right away, I have made some other NEPAS that took a week to mellow out, usually a hop bite issue. Wait a week (if you can) and see how it is.

I concur. The only issue I have ever found is a spicy hop particulate character. I notoriously get it when I use high dryhop rates of Columbus and galaxy. Sometimes citra will cause me to wait a week until it sets in nice