New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[ttuato]

I’m willing to do trades @couchsending and @ttuato to compare the outcome of our different processes. I’m confident in mine which I’m sure you both are with yours. I’m interested in seeing how different they are

@Dgallo - Sounds great! Christmas gatherings wiped me out. I have a fresh batch that I just put in fermenter for competition though. I will be canning the samples on 1/31. I will do extra. Send me a PM and we will work out the details.

 

[couchsending]

This last batch of Sosus was really great I thought..... I liked it better than the batch of King Sue they just released. I got some super fresh cans from Hill Farmstead that were all mosaic - I was able to drink them head to head with Sosus, and the Sosus was every bit as good as the Hill Farmstead. Saying a lot because, for my money, Hill Farmstead puts out the most consistently great beer you can find from the "big names".

I will say, I like leaving TG's cans sit still in the fridge for a week and then I pour them gently..... I leave the last ounce or so behind in the can. They can have a lot of yeast/sediment in some of the cans. I think their beer is better when you let that fall out. The Sosus cans were like that. Even letting them settle out, the beer poured nice and hazy/bright leaving the clumpy yeast or sediment behind in the can.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The latest Sosus, King Sue, and Pompeii have been incredible. They very much remind me of HF beers. Very drinkable, light on the pallet, and a great expression of the hop. No rotten/sweaty components at all. These are by far the best cans of modern IPA I think you can buy in a store. They’re definitely not hop bombs but balanced, drinkable, enjoyable beers.

These latest cans didn’t seem to have nearly as much sediment as cans and bombers from the past. They’ve definitely changed something with the process as their beers used to clear over time, these latest iterations don’t seem to.

 

[troglodytes]

These past couple pages are really interesting when it comes to the whirlpool vs dryhop debate. I've attempted several APA/IPAs in the past year with my process shifting toward more and more whirlpool hops coupled with a small FWH and about 4oz dry hop. I have found that my results grew worse the more whirlpool hops I added (try to add at about 180F, but usually its at 170F). Grassy unpleasant flavors all around or vegatal/belgiany flavors is what overpowered nearly all IPAs I've brewed with each one getting worse the more hops I added. The one brew I did that came out mediocre was a Dialed-In clone I attempted (and was great until it was oxidized about 5 weeks post bottling) and that one differed in that it added small hop charges every 7 minutes from 20 minutes to end of boil and had a much larger dry hop than whirlpool. I'll blame that beer's flavor loss on my bottling practices.

But now I'm reading here talk of whirlpooling at 1 oz per gallon and dryhopping at 1.5oz per gallon. If my last 4 IPAs are any indication of success at those rates I will be drinking lawn clippings. I'm obviously doing something wrong although I'm managing my water profile and pH. I'm usually at 150:100 sulfate to chloride with a mash pH of 5.3. I'm barely stirring my whirlpools as to not slosh and get a large amount of O2. I'm using, not fresh, but well stored hops that smell good.

I'm going to brew a version of this as an El Dorado IPA which will be my first batch I keg (which hopefully helps with the O2). My hopping schedule is planned as for 5.5 gallons into the fermenter:

.25 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus @ 10min
.5 oz Columbus / 1 oz El Dorado @ 5min
1 oz El Dorado / 1 oz Huell Melon @ flameout
2 oz El Dorado / 2 oz Huell Melon whirlpooled for 20min @ 160F
2 oz El Dorado / 2 oz Huell Melon Dry Hop @ day 4
2 oz El Dorado Dry Hop in keg

Honestly, I'm a bit frightened to do this as this is more hops than I've ever used in a batch and my track record with large whirlpooled / dryhopped beers is not good...at all. Am I on the right track or do I need to adjust something?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

@troglodyres have you tried WP below 150? When doing Pliny clones added about 6oz WP at 150. They were the juiciest beers I've ever made. My NEIPAs are a different story. But just dumped the yeast and started cold crashing next attempt. It's at 6psi and I'm too afraid to open for a dry hop addition. Running with it as is.

 

[troglodytes]

Temps usually end up at 140 to 150 by the time the hops have been swirling for 20 minutes, but I've never started the whirlpool that low. Should I not do my planned flameout addition? I've seen several recipes of great commercial brews that have a staggered whirlpool with hops split between flameout/180F/160F. I was trying to emulate that to try to get a bit more complexity of flavor.

 

[Dgallo]

These past couple pages are really interesting when it comes to the whirlpool vs dryhop debate. I've attempted several APA/IPAs in the past year with my process shifting toward more and more whirlpool hops coupled with a small FWH and about 4oz dry hop. I have found that my results grew worse the more whirlpool hops I added (try to add at about 180F, but usually its at 170F). Grassy unpleasant flavors all around or vegatal/belgiany flavors is what overpowered nearly all IPAs I've brewed with each one getting worse the more hops I added. The one brew I did that came out mediocre was a Dialed-In clone I attempted (and was great until it was oxidized about 5 weeks post bottling) and that one differed in that it added small hop charges every 7 minutes from 20 minutes to end of boil and had a much larger dry hop than whirlpool. I'll blame that beer's flavor loss on my bottling practices.

But now I'm reading here talk of whirlpooling at 1 oz per gallon and dryhopping at 1.5oz per gallon. If my last 4 IPAs are any indication of success at those rates I will be drinking lawn clippings. I'm obviously doing something wrong although I'm managing my water profile and pH. I'm usually at 150:100 sulfate to chloride with a mash pH of 5.3. I'm barely stirring my whirlpools as to not slosh and get a large amount of O2. I'm using, not fresh, but well stored hops that smell good.

I'm going to brew a version of this as an El Dorado IPA which will be my first batch I keg (which hopefully helps with the O2). My hopping schedule is planned as for 5.5 gallons into the fermenter:

.25 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus @ 10min
.5 oz Columbus / 1 oz El Dorado @ 5min
1 oz El Dorado / 1 oz Huell Melon @ flameout
2 oz El Dorado / 2 oz Huell Melon whirlpooled for 20min @ 160F
2 oz El Dorado / 2 oz Huell Melon Dry Hop @ day 4
2 oz El Dorado Dry Hop in keg

Honestly, I'm a bit frightened to do this as this is more hops than I've ever used in a batch and my track record with large whirlpooled / dryhopped beers is not good...at all. Am I on the right track or do I need to adjust something?

Don’t worry about oxygen getting in during whirlpool. You actually want oxygen in at that point, it beneficial for yeast. Once fermentation starts to slow is when you need to eliminate oxygen.

 

[plazola86]

Grassy unpleasant flavors all around or vegatal/belgiany flavors is what overpowered nearly all IPAs I've brewed with each one getting worse the more hops I added.

I'm obviously doing something wrong although I'm managing my water profile and pH. I'm usually at 150:100 sulfate to chloride with a mash pH of 5.3.

Lower your mash PH to 5.2 MAX acidy your pre boil PH to 5.00. If your boil PH is to high your pulling astringency from the hops. You're saying the more you use the worse it gets, that's what pops out to me. Also the "belgiany flavors" sounds like a yeast issue. Are you using RO water and adding minerals to get you to 150:100 sulfate to chloride?

 

[troglodytes]

I wouldn't think the difference between 5.2 and 5.3 pH could be the problem as some of the water experts here say that 5.3 is right in the correct range for the style. But I'll add some extra lactic acid this next batch to get it down.

I don't use RO, but I'm going to try this next batch. I've had my home water tested and it is very low bicarb/alk levels. Ca is 18, Sulfate is 20, chloride is 68. Very easy to build off of. The only thing that is out range for what we normally see as optimal is sodium which is in the 40s. Hopefully if that is the culprit, it will be negated by the RO next time I brew. However, I doubt water chemistry is my issue as the NEIPA I last made turned out ok.

Agreed that the Belgian-y flavor sounds like a yeast issue. However it only shows up in my IPAs. When I use the same yeast from my yeast back in an Irish Red/Porter/Mild/etc it doesn't exist. The second I use more than 4 oz of hops in a batch its starts to come back.

I'm starting fresh with all new cold side equipment as I'm moving from bottling to kegging so that will hopefully fix any possible infection issues I may have had. And I'm going to take the advice of this thread in my recipe/process and see where I end up. Hopfully I'll be able to succeed really brewing an excellent IPA for the first time in years.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Temps usually end up at 140 to 150 by the time the hops have been swirling for 20 minutes, but I've never started the whirlpool that low. Should I not do my planned flameout addition? I've seen several recipes of great commercial brews that have a staggered whirlpool with hops split between flameout/180F/160F. I was trying to emulate that to try to get a bit more complexity of flavor.

All I can say is they were my best WCIPAs. I also dry hopped in air and bottled..go figure. Safale05 was my preferred yeast for them.


And you sound like me. Great IPAs until this NEIPA non-sense came around! [emoji39]

 

[troglodytes]

Hey, best IPA I ever made was a Founder's Reds Rye Clone I did about 9 years back. I was only 2 years into brewing and I've never been able to emulate it. Go figure.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Hey, best IPA I ever made was a Founder's Reds Rye Clone I did about 9 years back. I was only 2 years into brewing and I've never been able to emulate it. Go figure.

Love Hoppy Reds! Bringing back memories.

If anyone interested HB trades, NFL pick-em style. Next one is up.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/660812/

 

[plazola86]

The real nugget in my post is the preboil PH...@troglodytes

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Sorry, I've been piling up posts in this thred to reply to, just been manic at work at the moment - maybe changing almost all our computer systems at the same time wasn't the best idea... As for having time to actually do some hop experiments or brew...

So just as a quicky in passing, here's something I came across quoting John Kimmich on harvesting Conan :
https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blog/2016/9/8/unrated-the-crown-that-sits-upon-heady-topper

“They’re brewing with the runtiest of the runts that you might be able to culture out of the bottom of the can,” Kimmich says. “When you get to the bottom of the can, there’s a very fine layer on the bottom. Sure, there’s yeast in there—it’s unfiltered. But that yeast didn’t drop out over 3.5 weeks of conditioning. That’s what you do not want to brew with. That is far, far removed from the best, healthiest yeast. So when you culture that up to brew with it, of course, you’re going to have even hazier beers.”...

“I’ve been using that yeast over 20 years, and I’ve ****** it up at times in the pub,” he says. “It creates different flavors. I had a Cornelius can that I stored my yeast in. I hadn’t vented it properly. We’ve got cleaners out, cleaning the toilets, washing dishes. We’re juggling. We had a small child. Here it is, I gotta brew, I can’t get a new culture in time. I gotta pitch this yeast. It smells fine, but it was pressurized, which I later found had mutated it. Brewed three batches of beer with it, all of a sudden Lightweight, our house light beer—a golden, gorgeous, crystal clear beer—looked like a ******* milkshake and never, ever, ever cleared up in the entire time it was in the tank. Thank god when it was finally gone. How many times do I get Double IPAs and it looks and smells just like that? Hmm, wonder what yeast they’re using in that beer?”

 

[troglodytes]

The real nugget in my post is the preboil PH...@troglodytes

So sparge water usually creaps up in pH as there aren't as many buffers in the grain. I acidify my sparge water to keep pH down, but if I have a mash pH of 5.3 and sparge pH of let's say 5.5. I'm assuming the pre-boil pH falls someplace in between. Do you just add lactic acid into the boil kettle to drop that pH preboil?

 

[plazola86]

Parish + Spindletap = DDH Operation Juice Drop. Canned 10/17/18.

These last if packaged right and made right. The aroma is obviously faded but still drinking great. Beautiful color and tasting awesome after 3 months.

 

[ttuato]

Grassy unpleasant flavors all around or vegatal/belgiany flavors is what overpowered nearly all IPAs

I'm usually at 150:100 sulfate to chloride with a mash pH of 5.3.

My hopping schedule is planned as for 5.5 gallons into the fermenter:

.25 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus @ 10min
.5 oz Columbus / 1 oz El Dorado @ 5min
1 oz El Dorado / 1 oz Huell Melon @ flameout
2 oz El Dorado / 2 oz Huell Melon whirlpooled for 20min @ 160F
2 oz El Dorado / 2 oz Huell Melon Dry Hop @ day 4
2 oz El Dorado Dry Hop in keg
?

My thoughts @troglodytes

Belgiany off flavor (phenolic) - could be yeast as mentioned above but I think it is water based on your follow up post. Unless you are using a carbon filter or well water this most likely problem. Chloramines in city water can produce phenolic off flavors. RO water should fix this.

General consensus for NEIPA is 2:1 Chlorine - Sulfate, and vice versa wor WC IPA. Higher sulfate enhances hop bitterness. I shoot for 160 chloride, 80 sulfate (minor issue in my opinion)


The Hop schedule you provided will make a bitter / grassy beer. You will have basically 4.5oz isomerizing alpha acids until it get below 180. I suggest some changes
0.5oz FWH
1oz Columbus, el dorado, Huell Melon at flameout ONLY If you can chill to 180 in less than 5min - otherwise, shift those to whirlpool.

Whirlpool addition looks good - make sure to not transfer all of those hops into fermenter - that will lead to grassy flavors (I learned this hard way)

Grassy flavors usually from too much hops, extended contact time, and/or cold dry-hopping. Applying that -

Day 4 - only if a few points gravity left. I would suggest doing on day 3 though. When hopping at this stage the yeast crash later will filter the polyphenols so extended contact time not apply, neither does too many hops, or cold temps

Keg hopping - No no no no - don’t keg hop. been there done that and had exact same issues. I have Clear Beer systems in all my keg - keg hopping is all the rage on certain HBT corners. It took forever with lots of reading and experimentation to figure that out - extended contact AND cold temps = grassy. It only works IF you are patient and can drink fast. Add a week for conditioning my once in keg, another week to hit its “prime”, drink it in two weeks or grassy will take over.

Alternative to keg hopping that is becoming norm in commercial circles / forums. Soft crash to 58 to drop yeast, add final dry hops. 24hours later chill to 36, then transfer to serving keg. My experience - no grassy, longer lasting aroma/flavor that is juicy.

One more thing - hops behave differently when used at WP vs DH. That could have influenced you past experience. See my earlier post.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Sorry, I've been piling up posts in this thred to reply to, just been manic at work at the moment - maybe changing almost all our computer systems at the same time wasn't the best idea... As for having time to actually do some hop experiments or brew...

So just as a quicky in passing, here's something I came across quoting John Kimmich on harvesting Conan :
https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blog/2016/9/8/unrated-the-crown-that-sits-upon-heady-topper

Awesome read! He just became my best "virtual" friend I'll never know. I hate weed but love Heady....if I remember correctly, been a while. Hard to imagine weed is what he was aiming for.

 

[plazola86]

Awesome read! He just became my best "virtual" friend I'll never know. I hate weed but love Heady....if I remember correctly, been a while. Hard to imagine weed is what he was aiming for.

Pot is good + hops are good + beer is great = match made in heaven.

 

[troglodytes]

@ttuato and @plazola86

I've got things to think about. Thanks for the help. You know its funny I never thought of my hop schedule as too heavy 4.5 oz of isomerizing AAs. I plugged my schedule into beersmith and get something like 55 IBUs, so I didn't think my past recipes could be the problem. But that many hops with a 1.052 SG could have just been way too much.

I have always used campden tablets, but I think the use of RO will be good. I had used RO for a couple batches and never could tell the difference in my results so I just stopped, but maybe its better to try again. Also new this time, I'll be using a hop spider so I won't be transferring all that green matter to the fermenter. That definitely could have been a culprit before.

Also thanks for the heads up on the keg hopping. It makes sense with that long of contact time and temp that grassy flavors could come out. I'll steer clear of that and it will make my cosed transfer that much easier at the same time.

I do have two questions from your process suggestions, though...

1) I've read that dry hopping at lower temps can bring out undesirable flavors so dry hopping at room temp is best. If I'm dry hopping in my fermenter then cold crashing does that not, then, extract those vegetal flavors? Or does the yeast dropping out with the hops stop that somehow?

2) My favorite style, and one I'd love to brew, is this hybrid between WC and NEIPA. I know a lot of local places around here do one (i.e. Second Fiddle, Liquid Riot's What's in the Box, Foundation's Epiphany) I've heard peple refer to them as NEIPAs and DIPAs, but they lie somewhere in between. They have a firm hop bitterness with dank flavors, and finish with strong smooth hop flavors and ridiculous aroma (usually passionfruit and/or citrus) that you would normally find only in a NEIPA. They are far from the juice bombs we've become accustomed to when talking NEIPAs. I guess this is really what I have been trying to formulate, and my assumption has always been that you need those hops at the 60 min & 20 min - FO to get that bitter backbone. Am I just over estimating how much one actually needs to achieve that, in my hop schedule. Would a 1/4 oz FWH, 20, 10, 5, FO addition get me what I want in that respect with the rest of the hops going to a cooler whirlpool?

 

[ttuato]

@ttuato and @plazola86

I've got things to think about. Thanks for the help. You know its funny I never thought of my hop schedule as too heavy 4.5 oz of isomerizing AAs. I plugged my schedule into beersmith and get something like 55 IBUs, so I didn't think my past recipes could be the problem. But that many hops with a 1.052 SG could have just been way too much.

I have always used campden tablets, but I think the use of RO will be good. I had used RO for a couple batches and never could tell the difference in my results so I just stopped, but maybe its better to try again. Also new this time, I'll be using a hop spider so I won't be transferring all that green matter to the fermenter. That definitely could have been a culprit before.

Also thanks for the heads up on the keg hopping. It makes sense with that long of contact time and temp that grassy flavors could come out. I'll steer clear of that and it will make my cosed transfer that much easier at the same time.

I do have two questions from your process suggestions, though...

1) I've read that dry hopping at lower temps can bring out undesirable flavors so dry hopping at room temp is best. If I'm dry hopping in my fermenter then cold crashing does that not, then, extract those vegetal flavors? Or does the yeast dropping out with the hops stop that somehow?

2) My favorite style, and one I'd love to brew, is this hybrid between WC and NEIPA. I know a lot of local places around here do one (i.e. Second Fiddle, Liquid Riot's What's in the Box, Foundation's Epiphany) I've heard peple refer to them as NEIPAs and DIPAs, but they lie somewhere in between. They have a firm hop bitterness with dank flavors, and finish with strong smooth hop flavors and ridiculous aroma (usually passionfruit and/or citrus) that you would normally find only in a NEIPA. They are far from the juice bombs we've become accustomed to when talking NEIPAs. I guess this is really what I have been trying to formulate, and my assumption has always been that you need those hops at the 60 min & 20 min - FO to get that bitter backbone. Am I just over estimating how much one actually needs to achieve that, in my hop schedule. Would a 1/4 oz FWH, 20, 10, 5, FO addition get me what I want in that respect with the rest of the hops going to a cooler whirlpool?

In my opinion, this was the main source of your problem: ".... I won't be transferring all that green matter to the fermenter."


1.) This is why I prefer the traditional dry hop after FG. If you soft crash to drop the yeast first, supposedly they won't strip the hop oils as much according to folks on probrewer forum. Plus you can limit the exposure by only having dry hops in solution for a day then fully cold crash and transfer to serving key all within 36-48hrs. From what I have read and experienced the vegetal stuff (polyphenols?) takes week or longer at cold temps to have enough extraction to cross the detectable threshold, so to answer your question - no it won't be an issue.

2.) Second Fiddle is awesome - I got you! I think you are overestimating the amount needed. Basically anything 15mins or less in boil accomplishes same thing flavor wise but just adds IBUs so no need to complicate with multiple additions. I would do 1oz for 30min boil (~35IBUs) which will get a good bitterness base, and then another 1oz at Flameout using Apollo>Bravo>Columbus depending on how potent bitterness you want. Add juicy hops at flameout too if you want, but only juicy hops in whirlpool. Then include 1-2oz of Centennial, Cascade, or Columbus in your dryhop for the dank along with your juicy hops.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

NEIPA attempt 2-zillion and 1. Kepted under pressure during fermentation and during fermentation DH addition. So far so good. Very creamy and fruity for a 7%er.

 

[cheesebach]

NEIPA attempt 2-zillion and 1. Kepted under pressure during fermentation and during fermentation DH addition. So far so good. Very creamy and fruity for a 7%er.
View attachment 606893

How did you add your dry hops to the carbonated beer? Transfer to a pressurized keg with the dry hops?

 

[jakturner]

For those of you who haved used Kveik yeast at high temps, do you drop the temp down before dry hopping? I got one going in the mid 80’s right now

 

[Dgallo]

For those of you who haved used Kveik yeast at high temps, do you drop the temp down before dry hopping? I got one going in the mid 80’s right now

Check this thread for kveik info
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...is-blowing-my-mind.653929/page-5#post-8489730

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

How did you add your dry hops to the carbonated beer? Transfer to a pressurized keg with the dry hops?

Good question. 1st off, I'm using a Fermentasaurous which can be pressurized to 35psi to ferment. I set the pressure relief to 6psi. After 2 days fermentation added ALL dry hops. 1oz Citra cryo, 1oz Mosaic Cryo, 1oz galaxy. Sat for another 7 days. Dumped trub and cold crashed. Basicly that pic/1st draw was at day 9. No transfer on this one.

 

[beervoid]

I can add this about WP additions and Dry hop additions.
I've brewed a 5 gal 16oz WP addition (Mosaic hops) and dry hopped it with 4oz (Mosaic)..
Flavor was quiet strong, not sure if it was that much stronger then my previous brews with max 6oz in the WP... but aroma was very mediocre... Def not one of the better brews I did..
On the other side, I've done some WP with cheaper hops (columbus, cascade, centennial etc..) flavor was not as good as when I would add the pungent Citra or Mosaic hops in the WP.
So in my experience WP are definitely important, probably don't need to go high. I put my focus more on dry hop additions.

 

[SRJHops]

@ttuato and @plazola86

I've got things to think about. Thanks for the help. You know its funny I never thought of my hop schedule as too heavy 4.5 oz of isomerizing AAs. I plugged my schedule into beersmith and get something like 55 IBUs, so I didn't think my past recipes could be the problem. But that many hops with a 1.052 SG could have just been way too much.

I have always used campden tablets, but I think the use of RO will be good. I had used RO for a couple batches and never could tell the difference in my results so I just stopped, but maybe its better to try again. Also new this time, I'll be using a hop spider so I won't be transferring all that green matter to the fermenter. That definitely could have been a culprit before.

Also thanks for the heads up on the keg hopping. It makes sense with that long of contact time and temp that grassy flavors could come out. I'll steer clear of that and it will make my cosed transfer that much easier at the same time.

I do have two questions from your process suggestions, though...

1) I've read that dry hopping at lower temps can bring out undesirable flavors so dry hopping at room temp is best. If I'm dry hopping in my fermenter then cold crashing does that not, then, extract those vegetal flavors? Or does the yeast dropping out with the hops stop that somehow?

2) My favorite style, and one I'd love to brew, is this hybrid between WC and NEIPA. I know a lot of local places around here do one (i.e. Second Fiddle, Liquid Riot's What's in the Box, Foundation's Epiphany) I've heard peple refer to them as NEIPAs and DIPAs, but they lie somewhere in between. They have a firm hop bitterness with dank flavors, and finish with strong smooth hop flavors and ridiculous aroma (usually passionfruit and/or citrus) that you would normally find only in a NEIPA. They are far from the juice bombs we've become accustomed to when talking NEIPAs. I guess this is really what I have been trying to formulate, and my assumption has always been that you need those hops at the 60 min & 20 min - FO to get that bitter backbone. Am I just over estimating how much one actually needs to achieve that, in my hop schedule. Would a 1/4 oz FWH, 20, 10, 5, FO addition get me what I want in that respect with the rest of the hops going to a cooler whirlpool?

I can't improve upon the suggestions from @ttuato and @plazola86, but I can say that I've been using 18 ounces of hops (6 gallons batch) and don't get grassy/vegetal flavors.

It does seem that you are using a lot of hops in the boil -- I don't use any, because I get enough bitterness from 2-3 ounces of knockout hops. (But adding some at 5 or 10 mins seems fine too.) Then I add 6 ounces for the WP under 180 degrees for 30 mins and just let the temp drop. I have actually been dumping all the hops into the carboy with no problems or off flavors, but I have to agree that leaving them behind probably makes more sense.

I haven't used those hops for a NEIPA. I know a lot of people use El Dorado, and I assume Huell Melon is well, melony? But I don't think too many folks use Columbus. Have you considered going with hops that a lot of folks think are working the best with this style? Quite a few people swear by Citra, Mosaic, and Galaxy. I personally swap out Galaxy for Simcoe for a slightly more pungent flavor.

 

[Dgallo]

But I don't think too many folks use Columbus.

I love it as a complementary hop in a ne. I’ve used it a few times as the main hop in a NE but I def prefer it as an undertone

 

[troglodytes]

This was my thought, and the reason I am not using it post boil. I love the bitterness Columbus provides and that's what I was going for as my bittering backbone as to no have an overly sweet IPA with El Dorado and Huell being the hops I use post boil.

I know Trillium solely uses Columbus in their street series IPAs and the differences between the versions is solely the hops they use to whirlpool and DH. That's what I was going to attempt.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Those using 16-18oz hops, are those regular and/or cryo? I have a PowerPoint from head brewer of Pinthouse Pizza. Electric Jellyfish is 18oz regular hops in a 6gal batch. 4in boil/kettle. The calculation I have would convert to about 12oz Cryo/regular. The 4oz regular hops in boil/WP then 8oz Cryo hops in Dry Hop/DDH. This ends up like at $90 for a 6gal batch as is with 1oz single hop buys.

 

[SRJHops]

Those using 16-18oz hops, are those regular and/or cryo? I have a PowerPoint from head brewer of Pinthouse Pizza. Electric Jellyfish is 18oz regular hops in a 6gal batch. 4in boil/kettle. The calculation I have would convert to about 12oz Cryo/regular. The 4oz regular hops in boil/WP then 8oz Cryo hops in Dry Hop/DDH. This ends up like at $90 for a 6gal batch as is with 1oz single hop buys.

I use 18 ounces regular hops for a 6 gallon batch. Good to know that Pinthouse's Electric Jellyfish uses the same amount!

These NEIPAs are pricey! Our homebrew shop has some hops in larger packets, so that cuts the cost a little, but I am spending around $75 per batch. I get about 25 bombers, and I always figure it's still cheaper than $13 bombers of NEIPA I can purchase at the store!

I do always pay attention to the folks who say less hops is more, but I admit that so far my experience has been the opposite -- more hops gets me closer to Toppling Goliath and the extremely tasty local NEIPA's.

 

[jakturner]

Check this thread for kveik info
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...is-blowing-my-mind.653929/page-5#post-8489730

Thanks for the reply, I do follow that thread but still not sure the effects of dry hopping at high temps.

 

[ttuato]

Thanks for the reply, I do follow that thread but still not sure the effects of dry hopping at high temps.

There is some discussion on high temp dry hopping on the Milk The Funk Facebook page - gotta join the group to see it. Nothing earth shattering though - basically higher heat = greater/faster extraction, so don't need as long of contact time.

My experience: I have done three Hornidal batches - two no boil (nah..) and one regular. On all three I fermented at 98*. Each was at FG in 36-40hours. I dry hopped around 36hours at 98* then began crashing about 12 hours later. I left at 40* for 24 then transferred to serving keg. Grain to glass in 5-6days (I spund). It still needed at least a week to lager/condition. Definitely a good yeast to have in your vault, but not my go to for a house yeast. Great option for keeping the queue full in the summer while the ferm fridge is occupied by a lager or gose.

 

[cheesebach]

Good question. 1st off, I'm using a Fermentasaurous which can be pressurized to 35psi to ferment. I set the pressure relief to 6psi. After 2 days fermentation added ALL dry hops. 1oz Citra cryo, 1oz Mosaic Cryo, 1oz galaxy. Sat for another 7 days. Dumped trub and cold crashed. Basicly that pic/1st draw was at day 9. No transfer on this one.

Ah, that probably explains why it’s working well for you but not for me. I don’t apply any pressure early in the fermentation (unless I were trying to avoid yeast ester production). When I do begin spunding, it’s late in the fermentation and I have pressure set high (20psi). Adding dry hops after that point is a no go, unless you transfer it under pressure to another keg containing the dry hops.

 

[beervoid]

Thanks for the reply, I do follow that thread but still not sure the effects of dry hopping at high temps.

Dry hopped kveik voss at high temp, got a strong rotten fruit smell.
I prefer dry hopping in the lower ranger.
Also be sure to give it extra time to clean up if you do dry hop and crash cause you can get a diacetyl problem

 

[jakturner]

Ok guys thanks for the info. I used Hornidal which I have used before in a farmhouse with juniper branches (eastern red cedar). Also I dried some flakes and I used those in my gose and berliners. Anyways, I pitched at 85* put the brewbelt on and it held it around mid 80s. 1062-1014 in 40 hours, dry hopped last night at 48 hour post pitch. This morning I turned off the brewbelt and detached the blowoff for some natural carbonation.

 

[kinginthenorth]

Anyone who has used 1272 for this beer, what ferm temps/schedule are you using?

 

[troglodytes]

Lower your mash PH to 5.2 MAX acidy your pre boil PH to 5.00. If your boil PH is to high your pulling astringency from the hops. You're saying the more you use the worse it gets, that's what pops out to me. Also the "belgiany flavors" sounds like a yeast issue. Are you using RO water and adding minerals to get you to 150:100 sulfate to chloride?

Quick question about the pre-boil pH. I know your results are not going to mirror mine with different water profiles, grains/maltsters etc., but could you let me know what you typically see for untreated pre-boil pH after sparging. I'm wondering what happens when higher pH sparge runoff interacts with the wort from the mash. I don't own a pH meter and use Brun water to produce pretty good beers (usually) and unfortunately a pH meter is not going to be in the budget any time soon. I'm thinking if I hit a mash pH of 5.2, the grains will have a lesser buffer and the sparge may be lets say 5.6. Does that mean you can expect a pre-boil pH of 5.3-5.35 or does it end up being a lot closer to the mash pH of 5.2 once its in the kettle. Based on calculations I think I can treat the pre-boil wort with about 3mL of lactic acid to bring it down to 5.0 if its starting at 5.2, but I really have no idea what preboil pH would look like for certain mashes as I've never seen a calculator for that or read of anyone providing their own personal information.

 

[ttuato]

Ah, that probably explains why it’s working well for you but not for me. I don’t apply any pressure early in the fermentation (unless I were trying to avoid yeast ester production). When I do begin spunding, it’s late in the fermentation and I have pressure set high (20psi). Adding dry hops after that point is a no go, unless you transfer it under pressure to another keg containing the dry hops.

Not necessarily - my new toy (yeast harvester) from NorCal enabled me to add dryhops to carbed beer with no O2 exposure. Of course you need the right set up to make this work.

Dry hop added to spunded (15lbs) NEIPA. I did lower pressure a bit so I could push the dry hop back in to fermentor.

 

[ttuato]

Anyone who has used 1272 for this beer, what ferm temps/schedule are you using?

My go to yeast for testing Hops. Doing it “low” will produce subtle esters that not overshadow hops like 1318 does.
64* - four days (almost always hit FG)
68* - two days
70* - two days
58* - three days, add dry hops on second day
Cold crash.

If you want the esters start at 70*-72* - hold for 8 days, drop to 58* for dry hop.