New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

CornyKegs 728
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Just brewed my first neipa without any citra...felt weird!

It was a clean the freezer out batch.

11G batch size.
no bittering
5oz columbus 4oz Simcoe at flameout and 30min WP
split into two fermenters and pitched 1318 in both

first 5 gallons was DHd with

3.25 amarillo
3.5 mosaic
4.5 simcoe

Second batch was DHd with

1.75 vic secret
4 el dorado
4.5 Falconers Flight

Anybody done anything similar to these hop combos?

We'll see how they come out...
 
(But i talked to the owner and head brewer of an award winning, very popular, good brewery, in the US. Cant say who, but he told me)

400-500g? What size batch are you talking?
 
tld6008 said:
16oz in 5 gal will be a first for me, usually half that much. I'll try it
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That’s too much. Trust me when I tell you. will it be hoppy, absolutely but with that much material it will not be clean or distinctive. It will give you way to much polyphenols and be astringent.
 
No it isnt. But thats TOTAL. NO bittering hops, maybe 1 oz whirlpool, otherwise all dry hop. There is a lot of bitterness coming from dry hopping. If you are having to much IBUS, thats because of boil hops.
 
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the reason why most people arent getting the hop burst flavor is simple. Not enough hops. 16oz total isnt too much. Do. Not. Boil. Hops.
 
TheBrewGoose said:
No it isnt. But thats TOTAL. NO bittering hops, maybe 1 oz whirlpool, otherwise all dry hop. There is a lot of bitterness coming from dry hopping. If you are having to much IBUS, thats because of that. There is no need for boil hops.
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ibu are not astringency. You get that off flavor from the the veg material in the hops them self. Excess chlorophyll and things as that. 16 oz is a lot of hop dude. that’s 7 lbs of hops per barrel. No one is doing that.
 
ThePaleAleIndian said:
I just did one with mostly Vic Secret that came out awesome. Small amounts of Simcoe and El Dorado to support. I have also been meaning to experiment with the new age European hops, Huell Melon, Hallertau Blanc, Mandarina Bavaria, etc. Haven't gotten to that yet, but it seems like they could be good in an NEIPA.
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These are interesting hops. I tried doing a Firestone Walker Easy Jack clone. Missed the mark but made a very interesting pale ale.

Mandarina Bavaria and Huell Melon with a bit of Mosaic gave a "sweet tea" like flavor. Not sure if this is typical. Definitely good, but not sure how it would translate in a NEIPA.
 
I know what you meant. Im just the messenger. I was just lucky enough to get the chance to talk to him. This is what he told me and i have been a huge fan of his neipas. They’re all over 4+ on untappd and i asked what was the secret. He said: no boil hops, no whirlpool but he sometimes uses 1 oz for 5 gal in whirlpool (approx down sizing from his system) and dont be afraid to go for 4-500g for 5 gal in dry hopping, 1 batch during fermentation and 1 after.

And flaked oats and flaked wheat is his go to with pale 2 row and london ale 3. I was surprise how the grain bill and yeast was standard but the hopping procedure was different.

I wish i could name the brewery but he kind of made me promise and he only told me because we have a history.
 
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I’ve tried solo dry hop beers and I always feel like they’re missing something. But hey. To each their own
 
There is 100% more to this. He didnt give me grain bill or temps. But i got hopping procedure and yeast. Thats just what struck me the most. There are lines for his cans.
 
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TheBrewGoose said:
There is 100% more to this.
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The real stars in this area seem to obsess over their yeast - as in yeast health, feeding it right and so on - but it's not nearly as sexy as hops, so homebrewers tend to neglect it (and to be fair, some of the specialist nutrients aren't readily available in retail packs).

I don't think you can generalise on the bittering thing - for every brewer that doesn't have any bittering addition, there seems to be one who likes just a touch of bittering, or even a whisper of early-boil hops just to help the boil. A lot will depend on how efficient your cooling setup is - if you have quick cooling then you'll be getting less bitterness from any late additions than if you have slow cooling.

I think the decision to go 100% dry hop or not is partly a question of personal taste, partly a question of whether you can cope with the ensuing fragility of the beer. If you've got people queueing round the block or are homebrewing for a one-off party then you don't care so much, but for more normal commercial breweries or more typical homebrewers then dry-hop flavours that blow off within a week or two are not terribly practical.

I'll point out again the recipe for Cloudwater 's revised DIPA v3.1, on the right of this spreadsheet compared to earlier versions on the left and middle. A whisper of alpha extract, 8g/l in the whirlpool and 24g/l at 18C (64F) (in 2016 they were doing 7g/l at 16C and 3g/l hopback).
 
16oz/5G is not unheard of in this style. You just need to be careful how you do it.

If you keg hop it can lead to astringent flavors but I've found a single DH with about 5-10 points remaining and racking a couple days later works well for me. I do think the more hops you use the more you need to let it condition a bit.
 
I knnow its not unheard of but it’s not going to give you that true distinctive fruity flavor. It will give you hop flavor absolutely but not that signature flavor the specific variety of hop will provide. You said it your self that have you have to condition longer when your in that range of ozes. If you tone it back to in the 10 range you will let the true flavor out.

Whoever mention yeast health hit the nail on the head. A fast Healthy fermentation in the temp range you choose (me I drive from 68-76 with the strain I use) give the a clean fruitforward ester profile and gives the remaining yeast time to clean up. Ever since realizing this my beers improved leaps and bounds. It allows the hops to shine all while the Esters help to round out the aroma and flavor
 
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Just dry hopped after 2 days fermentation. I'm using 05 as a "safe" yeast for this 2nd Fermentasaurous brew. The dry hop addition was 1oz Cryo Simcoe, 2oz Citra, 1oz Ekuenout, 1oz galaxy. (10oz hops total in brew). Question is how long before cold crashing? 10days is whats in my mind. When do I dump the trub? What do you guys do?

A bit more detail. After adding hops, purged the fermenter several times and should hold steady at 7psi. Fermented at 66F but will be room temp from here on out.
 
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Dgallo said:
I knnow its not unheard of but it’s not going to give you that true distinctive fruity flavor. It will give you hop flavor absolutely but not that signature flavor the specific variety of hop will provide. You said it your self that have you have to condition longer when your in that range of ozes. If you tone it back to in the 10 range you will let the true flavor out.

Whoever mention yeast health hit the nail on the head. A fast Healthy fermentation in the temp range you choose (me I drive from 68-76 with the strain I use) give the a clean fruitforward ester profile and gives the remaining yeast time to clean up. Ever since realizing this my beers improved leaps and bounds. It allows the hops to shine all while the Esters help to round out the aroma and flavor
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Don't disagree with any if this. I do think ABV plays into it too though. If you're in the 8% range you need those extra few ozs.
 
TheBrewGoose said:
I dont know if this info has been discussed. But i talked to the owner and head brewer of an award winning, very popular, good brewery, in the US. Cant say who, but he told me personally that in his NEIPAs (and hes done collabs all over the country) there are never 60 min hops, rarely whirlpools and its most of the time ONLY dry hopping.

He said that i should try at most 1 oz whirlpool and 400-500g dry hopping in 2 stages.
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That sounds really interesting. Have you tried brewing this way? What were the results? No water treatment talk at all?
 
CTS said:
How is everyone adding the 2nd dry hop with regards to oxygen exposure?
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As long as you aren’t one of those people who constantly open your air lock to smell the fermentation you shoud have a pretty decent co2 cover in your fermenter. If youre worried you could always purge the fermenter with more co2 right before you put in that dry hop. Now there is air trapped in the pellets so your beer will absorb some o2 and obviously that increases as you up the amount of hops added after primary is complete.
 
TheBrewGoose said:
I know what you meant. Im just the messenger. I was just lucky enough to get the chance to talk to him. This is what he told me and i have been a huge fan of his neipas. They’re all over 4+ on untappd and i asked what was the secret. He said: no boil hops, no whirlpool but he sometimes uses 1 oz for 5 gal in whirlpool (approx down sizing from his system) and dont be afraid to go for 4-500g for 5 gal in dry hopping, 1 batch during fermentation and 1 after.

And flaked oats and flaked wheat is his go to with pale 2 row and london ale 3. I was surprise how the grain bill and yeast was standard but the hopping procedure was different.

I wish i could name the brewery but he kind of made me promise and he only told me because we have a history.
Click to expand...
So the messenger hasn't actually brewed this batch?
 
CTS said:
How is everyone adding the 2nd dry hop with regards to oxygen exposure?
Click to expand...

I have switched my second dry hop to the keg and use a clear beer floating pickup. I add priming solution to the primary 30 or so minutes before transfer. Transfer the beer into a purged keg with the dry hops. Leave at room temp for 5 days and then into the kegerator.

The advantage of the the priming before transfer is the yeast are active and should help scavenge oxygen pickup from the transfer and the dry hops. With this method I have been able to drink these beers 3 months after kegging and they are still delicious.
 
Hannabrew said:
I put Braufessor's philosophy to the test and compared a DDH NEIPA vs a single DH batch (same amount of hops)...nobody could tell the difference.
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How’d you do the dry hopping in your control and experiment group? How long were the dry hops in for and On what days were the two stages from the time of kegging. I did the same experiment actually. Brought it to the HB club for those to judge it. I too found that most people couldn’t tell the difference but the die hard IPA guys in the group actually could tell the difference. And all 6 of them correctly picked the DDH beer. Coincidence maybe
 
Dgallo said:
How’d you do the dry hopping in your control and experiment group? How long were the dry hops in for and On what days were the two stages from the time of kegging. I did the same experiment actually. Brought it to the HB club for those to judge it. I too found that most people couldn’t tell the difference but the die hard IPA guys in the group actually could tell the difference. And all 6 of them correctly picked the DDH beer. Coincidence maybe
Click to expand...

What is the purported difference? I hear a lot on this topic and often wonder if I should bother testing it myself.
 
Dgallo said:
As long as you aren’t one of those people who constantly open your air lock to smell the fermentation you shoud have a pretty decent co2 cover in your fermenter.
Click to expand...

The O2 that enters when the lid is removed does not stay near the top of the headspace and the CO2 does not stay near the beer when the lid is put back on the fermenter. CO2 is slightly more dense than O2, but the gasses mix equally once the lid is put back on and O2 will come in contact with the beer.
 
kevink said:
The O2 that enters when the lid is removed does not stay near the top of the headspace and the CO2 does not stay near the beer when the lid is put back on the fermenter. CO2 is slightly more dense than O2, but the gasses mix equally once the lid is put back on and O2 will come in contact with the beer.
Click to expand...

If you’re using bucket then yes. But purge your fermenter again after with co2 to force any O2 out and you should be fine
 
Dgallo said:
If you’re using bucket then yes. But purge your fermenter again after with co2 to force any O2 out and you should be fine
Click to expand...

It doesn't really matter what kind of fermenter you're using. I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything. This is just something that I feel is extremely important and overlooked. If you open a fermenter, whether it's a conical with a 1.5" port or a bucket, O2 is getting in and it will reach the beer after you seal it back up. Purging after helps, but the best method is to blast CO2 in through a dedicated port while hops are added then purge again after it's sealed back up. This would be a pain to do with a bucket unless you added a CO2 port and a big dry hop hole to the lid. It can be done, but anyone going to these lengths is probably not fermenting in buckets anyway.
 
The "blanket of CO2" theory is one of the biggest misconceptions in homebrewing IMO.

That said, if fermentation is still fairly active and you are using a blowoff, I'm usually not too concerned about opening the lid and adding hops quickly as the active fermentation will purge the headspace fairly quickly.

Dgallo said:
How’d you do the dry hopping in your control and experiment group? How long were the dry hops in for and On what days were the two stages from the time of kegging. I did the same experiment actually. Brought it to the HB club for those to judge it. I too found that most people couldn’t tell the difference but the die hard IPA guys in the group actually could tell the difference. And all 6 of them correctly picked the DDH beer. Coincidence maybe
Click to expand...

I added both initial DH rounds loose with about 10 points left. Left them in for ~48 hours and spunded to fermentation purged kegs (no cold crash). For the DDH batch, I quickly added the loose hops to the keg just prior to racking while applying 1 PSI to the gas in (to keep positive pressure out).
 
TheBrewGoose said:
This brewer i talked to also said that huge dryhopping is THE reason for haze.
Click to expand...
Then your brewer doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's pulling your chain. The research is out there. I believe some of it has been linked in this thread. The distinctive NEIPA look and mouthfeel comes from the proteins in wheat and flaked grains. This is not even argued against by any legitimate source that I'm aware of. But again, don't take my word for it. It's out there and easy to find. The heavy late hop additions and dry hop are for flavor and aroma. Not for the haze.
 

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