New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[stickyfinger]

I've made several all-Citra beers and i think they were all too 1-dimensional. I did one with the full gamut of FWH, 60, 30, 10, 5, 0, 0+15, 0+30 and dry hops and the flavor was intense, but for me it wasn't complex.

I've recently made a similar recipe except i used approx 1/3-1/3-1/3 of Citra, Mosaic and Simcoe. Much better balance of bitterness, aroma and flavor.

i agree. throw in something else with it and Citra is great. citra mosaic. or citra plus some dank hops, etc. like to use citra ad a hopstand base hop and then add on others in dryhop

 

[stickyfinger]

Ageing is certainly a problem for northern hemisphere hops at this time of year - oxygen plus ambient temperature is definitely a hop killer, one of those on its own is less of a problem but I've run into problems with hops that I'd refrozen open without vacuuming. Some varieties are worse than others - Cascade are notoriously fragile. Also look at what else is in the freezer, could they be contaiminated by strong smells from elsewhere in the freezer?



I must admit, I'm waiting to do a NEIPA until I can get the fresh 2017 harvest hops - I've got some other things to be getting on with in the meantime.

when do the 2017 domestic hops start showing up usually. i also want to buy fresh this yr

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I've made several all-Citra beers and i think they were all too 1-dimensional. I did one with the full gamut of FWH, 60, 30, 10, 5, 0, 0+15, 0+30 and dry hops and the flavor was intense, but for me it wasn't complex.

I've recently made a similar recipe except i used approx 1/3-1/3-1/3 of Citra, Mosaic and Simcoe. Much better balance of bitterness, aroma and flavor.

I have a pound of Citra and 2 ounces of Mosaic on hand. i was going to start my hops additions at 10 min. remaining in the boil. Should I consider the Mosaic for this addition, and then Citra for all of my subsequent additions?

 

[stickyfinger]

I have a pound of Citra and 2 ounces of Mosaic on hand. i was going to start my hops additions at 10 min. remaining in the boil. Should I consider the Mosaic for this addition, and then Citra for all of my subsequent additions?

i’d do all citra in the hopstand and then use the mosaic with some citra in the dryhop

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

i’d do all citra in the hopstand and then use the mosaic with some citra in the dryhop

So skip the 10 minute addition, add a load of Citra hops at flame out, and let hopstand for 20-30 minutes before cooling to about 175-180 degrees for the whirlpool addition?

This batch will bring about 7.6 gallons to the boil, and 6.1 gallons to the fermenter. Anticipating an OG of 1.070. Any suggestions for the hops charges?

 

[TimmyWit]

I actually had a lot of changes. I went for a 10 gallon kettle, to a 20 gallon kettle w/pump to be able to do whirlpool and pump wort out into fermenter.

I am still thinking temp.

When I switched from a 10G to a 20G kettle, I made a few off IPAs before I realized what was going on. With the 10G kettle, I had a false bottom and it prevented all the hop/cold break stuff from going into the carboy. With the 20G kettle, I'm using a boil coil so no false bottom. With those first few batches, I neglected to allow everything to settle out when I turned off the whirlpool and finished chilling. As soon as it got to temp, I would divert it from a whirlpool straight into the carboy. Now, after I turn off the whirlpool, I give everything a good 30 minutes to drop out and form a nice cone on the bottom - it has been a night and day difference.

Also, if you want to rule out temp, try OYL-057. I posted an experiment a few pages back where I ramped that one all the way up to 90F with no perceivable effect on flavor.

 

[stickyfinger]

So skip the 10 minute addition, add a load of Citra hops at flame out, and let hopstand for 20-30 minutes before cooling to about 175-180 degrees for the whirlpool addition?

This batch will bring about 7.6 gallons to the boil, and 6.1 gallons to the fermenter. Anticipating an OG of 1.070. Any suggestions for the hops charges?

do a 60 min hopstand with citra. it will create an amazing, juicy base to build upon. then load in the mosaic and other dryhop for the final touch. i wonder lately if an early and late dryhop isnt best

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

do a 60 min hopstand with citra. it will create an amazing, juicy base to build upon. then load in the mosaic and other dryhop for the final touch. i wonder lately if an early and late dryhop isnt best

So the only hops additions are to be at flame-out with a hopstand for 60 minutes (whirlpooled at least occasionally I presume), then cool and whirlpool, but with no additional hops at this stage, followed in a few days by dry hopping additions, correct?

Any suggestions as to ounces at each stage?

 

[schematix]

I didn't really have any strong inclination for how to split the 3 hop varieties, or weigh out a ton of individual doses, so i simplified it:

I took 244g of Simcoe, 305g of Citra, and 454g of Mosaic, and put them all in a large mixing bowl.... gave them a good toss and then just split into all my additions.

I then turned that into this:
View attachment IMG_5571.jpg

This particular one was meant to be a face punching west coast style IPA, so i did 4@60, 2@20, 2@10, 4@5, 6oz@170F (for 15 mins), 6oz@140F (for 15 mins) plus about 12oz of dry hops.

I've done it with just 1 lb of Citra at BKO and steeped for an hour and i was not at all a fan. It was just like drinking orange juice. Not enough bitterness to balance. Came off really cloying. You could use my schedule from above but drop the 60 min additional entirely and you'd get a good balance of bitterness and juice. Depends what you like.

 

[stickyfinger]

So the only hops additions are to be at flame-out with a hopstand for 60 minutes (whirlpooled at least occasionally I presume), then cool and whirlpool, but with no additional hops at this stage, followed in a few days by dry hopping additions, correct?



Any suggestions as to ounces at each stage?

yeah, try it. Citra is a beast in hopstand and Mosaic is a beast in either stage. I’d do 6 oz hopstand and 4-6 oz dryhop. just my opinion

 

[schematix]

Target at least 1lb hops per 5 gallons. Use at least 1/3 of that for hopstand and 1/3 for dry hop.

 

[k-daddy]

Gas line hooked up to the cap? Like 1 psi?

Exactly right. I was occasionally blowing the cap off the carboy under the gas pressure (which would stir everything up) until I started using the SS hose clamp to keep everything in place. I used the 80 micron filter (after cold crashing) with no clogging issues but still had fine hop material in the glass on the first and last couple of pours from the keg. Going to use the 40 micron filter on my next batch and continue working down till I find the sweet spot.

 

[EndOfLine]

That's pretty cool.
I want to hear about the results

 

[Oldskewl]

View attachment IMG_1656.jpg

My most recent batch. Followed the recipe exactly this time but subbed in a couple ounces of Nelson as I was short on Galaxy. Used a fresh pack of 1318. I overshot my strike temp and after waiting 20 minutes I mashed at 155. This is the first time I didn't oxygenate the wort. In the long run I ended up with a 1.018 FG. This pic is at 3 weeks in the keg. It tastes great and has a nice mouthfeel. A tad sweet but seems to fit the style.

 

[Jmash]

I was at Treehouse yesterday. One of their offerings was Bright Nelson. It tasted like most of the Trilliums. I wonder if Trillium uses Nelson more than they reveal

 

[stickyfinger]

just stumbled upon a hop combo that competes with CMG. try 1:1:1 citra:mosaic:ctz in dry hop. i used all-citra in hopstand but i’d do 1:1:1 C:M:CTZ in hopstand next time. amazing!!!

 

[grassfeeder]

just stumbled upon a hop combo that competes with CMG. try 1:1:1 citra:mosaic:ctz in dry hop. i used all-citra in hopstand but i’d do 1:1:1 C:M:CTZ in hopstand next time. amazing!!!

Im actually a fan of Columbus as a non-bettering addition but to replace Galaxy is big shoes. I'll have to try it however as that would cut costs big time.

 

[stickyfinger]

Im actually a fan of Columbus as a non-bettering addition but to replace Galaxy is big shoes. I'll have to try it however as that would cut costs big time.

I did a split batch. half was dry hopped with C:M:G and half with C:M:CTZ. It may be that the CTZ version just got out of the way of the C and M, but it tastes like it added it's own great effect as well. The G version was overpowered by G and lost some of the nice Mosaic character. I was shocked. Anyway, worth playing around with. The G version tasted a lot drier too. Could just be the lot of G I have.

 

[grassfeeder]

Just finished this one up and it came out as one of the better ones I've made.

Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.051
Efficiency: 65% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.070
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 6.81%
IBU (tinseth): 36.91
SRM (morey): 4.75

FERMENTABLES:
Pale 2-Row (79.1%)
White Wheat (12.9%)
Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (6.4%)
Lactose (Milk Sugar) (1.6%)

HOPS:
0.3 oz - Columbus, Boil for 60 min
0.8 oz - Columbus, Boil for 10 min
4 oz - Galaxy, Whirlpool for 30 min at 165 °F
6 oz - Galaxy, Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min
2) Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 20 min

YEAST:
Imperial Yeast - A24 Dry Hop

 

[dyqik]

I've decided to use some of the techniques from this thread, while deviating from the NEIPA style. Today I'm brewing a more traditional pale ale hop bill, using homegrown cascade, but using a NEIPA style grain bill and hop schedule, and 1318 yeast. This is very much an experiment to try to understand the grain, yeast and hop schedule vs hop types and to see what happens.

Target OG: 1.050
IBU: 38
5.75.gal into fermenter

Grain Bill:
10 lb Rahr Pale Ale
1 lb Flaked Oats
4 oz Honey Malt

Mash at 152F for 60 mins

Hops Schedule:
60 min - 2.5 ml Hopshot
Whirlpool 20 mins - 2 oz homegrown Cascade, picked 14 days ago, dried 7 days

1318 starting at 66F, rising to 72F after 3 days.
Dry hop with 2 oz homegrown Cascade 12-18 hours after fermentation takes off.

Maybe dry hop in keg depending on samples at kegging time.

This is in the keg and partially carbonated now (CO2 tank is running down though). I did a second dry hop in the keg with about 2oz of cascade pellets I had around, as the homegrown hops weren't giving enough. It's pretty tasty. Obviously it's a bit rough around the edges, as you'd expect from an all cascade brew, but it's definitely in the NE style rather than a classic cascade pale ale. Once it fully carbs up and the pellet hop dust drops out taking the bite with it, I think it'll be pretty good.

I guess I have a conclusion of "don't give up on cascade entirely just because there are all these fancy new hops available".

 

[Rob2010SS]

Without reading 500 pages of thread, do any of you guys use gelatin on this style? My NEIPA should be ready to keg Friday night, Saturday morning and I was going to cold crash it, but should I be fining with gelatin as well? I would think you WOULDN'T want to use gelatin, but not sure....

 

[dyqik]

No, gelatin will pull out hop haze and aroma as well as yeast still in suspension. That's ok in things like lager, but not here.

 

[TimmyWit]

Without reading 500 pages of thread, do any of you guys use gelatin on this style? My NEIPA should be ready to keg Friday night, Saturday morning and I was going to cold crash it, but should I be fining with gelatin as well? I would think you WOULDN'T want to use gelatin, but not sure....

That was my initial assumption as well. But, I had sort of a harsh bitterness that remained even two weeks after kegging; I believe some describe it as a "burn". Since I brew 15 gallons and split 3 ways, I was able to put 2 kegs on gelatin while leaving one alone for the sake of comparison. The two kegs that I added gelatin to went from being murky to hazy without losing any aroma and the flavor improved dramatically.

I posted these results a while back but I'll go ahead and drop the pictures off here again. The first picture is pre-gelatin. The second picture is after I added gelatin to the first two. The lighting is a bit off making the second pic appear a bit darker but you can see the difference in appearance - still hazy but not quite as murky.

From left to right yeast is OYL-057, 1318, S04

 

[Oldskewl]

This is in the keg and partially carbonated now (CO2 tank is running down though). I did a second dry hop in the keg with about 2oz of cascade pellets I had around, as the homegrown hops weren't giving enough. It's pretty tasty. Obviously it's a bit rough around the edges, as you'd expect from an all cascade brew, but it's definitely in the NE style rather than a classic cascade pale ale. Once it fully carbs up and the pellet hop dust drops out taking the bite with it, I think it'll be pretty good.

I guess I have a conclusion of "don't give up on cascade entirely just because there are all these fancy new hops available".

That grain bill is very similar to the Hop Hands recipe, minus the Honey Malt. Definitely a good way to let the hops shine and get a good feel for what they bring to the table.

 

[stickyfinger]

That was my initial assumption as well. But, I had sort of a harsh bitterness that remained even two weeks after kegging; I believe some describe it as a "burn". Since I brew 15 gallons and split 3 ways, I was able to put 2 kegs on gelatin while leaving one alone for the sake of comparison. The two kegs that I added gelatin to went from being murky to hazy without losing any aroma and the flavor improved dramatically.



I posted these results a while back but I'll go ahead and drop the pictures off here again. The first picture is pre-gelatin. The second picture is after I added gelatin to the first two. The lighting is a bit off making the second pic appear a bit darker but you can see the difference in appearance - still hazy but not quite as murky.



From left to right yeast is OYL-057, 1318, S04

I did a side by side batch of west coast ipa - fined one and not the other. no one could tell them apart in triangle tests. could be a different story if u have a ton of yeast in suspension though.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I did a side by side batch of west coast ipa - fined one and not the other. no one could tell them apart in triangle tests. could be a different story if u have a ton of yeast in suspension though.

That's the difference, you did a west coast IPA. A NEIPA has sooooo much more hops in it than the west coast style. When I sampled the wort of my NEIPA, I experienced what TimmyWit was talking about. It actually burned my throat on the way down because of all of the hops.

I'd be curious how many others actually fine the NEIPA style with gelatin...

 

[stickyfinger]

That's the difference, you did a west coast IPA. A NEIPA has sooooo much more hops in it than the west coast style. When I sampled the wort of my NEIPA, I experienced what TimmyWit was talking about. It actually burned my throat on the way down because of all of the hops.

I'd be curious how many others actually fine the NEIPA style with gelatin...

I have a couple points in reply to that, or at least things to think about.

1) There is no reason you can't add the same mass/volume of hops to a WCIPA as to an NEIPA. I routinely use the same hopping rates. However, the hops I use in WCIPA often result in a less hazy beer, as does the yeast. Also, the hops never seem to deliver the same wallop if I use the traditional WC hops - the dank, piney, grapefruit ones.

2) I have experienced the hop burn as well from using 2+ oz/gal in the dry hop. I am not a fan so I have dropped back down to 1 oz/gal in the dry hop. Others have reported the burn from keg-hopping with Cryo hops.

3) My favorite IPA of all time is Heady Topper. Is it a WCIPA? Is it an NEIPA? I don't think it really fits into either category. It has only dank, WC style hops and is FIRMLY bitter. But, it also has a metric load of hop flavor, more than many NEIPAs I've tried and a full rich mouthfeel and flavor. It is very very hazy when it is cold but as it warms it becomes more and more clear until it is merely hazy, like a cold WC IPA. It is certainly not a murk-bomb by any measure. I think it is maybe a perfect blend b/w a WC and NEIPA. I guess this is an entire debate, but part of my point is that there is a smearing b/w styles at some point, and I LIKE it!!

4) I can completely believe that some NEIPAs would benefit from fining. Does the yeastiness really add to the flavor? HT is an example. I doubt there is much yeast at all, since it dissipates as it warms up. Some NEIPAs are super yeasty, which can add to mouthfeel, but it can also add to coarse/harsh/unpleasant flavors. I think there is certainly room for fining with NEIPAs. In particular, I have consistently found that WY1318 produces a sub par beer for me until the beer has been in the keg for 2-3 weeks. Weird, but it always happens that I like the beer more as it ages a bit. I think part of that is the yeast dropping out some more.

5) Whirfloc - I've used and omitted whirfloc. It seems to me that the whirfloc-less batches are all super haze bombs all the way to the end of the keg, but are they better b/c they were hazy? I don't know.

 

[grassfeeder]

I have a couple points in reply to that, or at least things to think about.

1) There is no reason you can't add the same mass/volume of hops to a WCIPA as to an NEIPA. I routinely use the same hopping rates. However, the hops I use in WCIPA often result in a less hazy beer, as does the yeast. Also, the hops never seem to deliver the same wallop if I use the traditional WC hops - the dank, piney, grapefruit ones.

2) I have experienced the hop burn as well from using 2+ oz/gal in the dry hop. I am not a fan so I have dropped back down to 1 oz/gal in the dry hop. Others have reported the burn from keg-hopping with Cryo hops.

3) My favorite IPA of all time is Heady Topper. Is it a WCIPA? Is it an NEIPA? I don't think it really fits into either category. It has only dank, WC style hops and is FIRMLY bitter. But, it also has a metric load of hop flavor, more than many NEIPAs I've tried and a full rich mouthfeel and flavor. It is very very hazy when it is cold but as it warms it becomes more and more clear until it is merely hazy, like a cold WC IPA. It is certainly not a murk-bomb by any measure. I think it is maybe a perfect blend b/w a WC and NEIPA. I guess this is an entire debate, but part of my point is that there is a smearing b/w styles at some point, and I LIKE it!!

4) I can completely believe that some NEIPAs would benefit from fining. Does the yeastiness really add to the flavor? HT is an example. I doubt there is much yeast at all, since it dissipates as it warms up. Some NEIPAs are super yeasty, which can add to mouthfeel, but it can also add to coarse/harsh/unpleasant flavors. I think there is certainly room for fining with NEIPAs. In particular, I have consistently found that WY1318 produces a sub par beer for me until the beer has been in the keg for 2-3 weeks. Weird, but it always happens that I like the beer more as it ages a bit. I think part of that is the yeast dropping out some more.

5) Whirfloc - I've used and omitted whirfloc. It seems to me that the whirfloc-less batches are all super haze bombs all the way to the end of the keg, but are they better b/c they were hazy? I don't know.

I agree with this. I use pretty much the same weight in hops for my WC and NE IPA's. I've even used up the to the same percentage of white wheat as well. I never use a whirlfloc in my NE ones but always do in my WC ones. I also never cold crash and never secondary with either style. I am typically dry-hopping about 6 ounces. I've found that I get no added benefit of dry hopping more in my NE ones.

Biggest difference between the two is length I dry hop, when I dry hop, sometimes yeast. I can go grain to glass in about 8 days with NEIPA's as to where my WC ones takes the typical 14-15 days.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Well looks like i learned something today. I thought NEIPAs had more hops but that's only because the recipes Ive seen for both styles thus far indicated that.

In regards to the crash and fining, Im just aiming to eliminate that "burn" i noticed in the wort. I don't want that in the finished product, obviously.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Has anyone ever tried using Danstar Munich Wheat yeast (not their Munich Classic) in NEIPA? I'm considering pitching 1 pack of SO-4 and one pack of Munich Wheat in my on deck NEIPA.

The intent is to gain some fruityness.