New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[centrical]

I always use 1318 and never drop the temp back down. I haven't had a problem. Your under two weeks comment worries me. I'm going on vacation Friday and I have a batch which normally would be ready for kegging on Saturday. I was going to do second dryhop in the dryhop keg tomorrow (day 9) and transfer to serving keg/force carb Thursday night.
I'm wondering if I should cold crash it for a week and then force carb it when I get back.

How long do you usually go prior to kegging?

My though about your current situation is - nothing to loose by an extended cold crash. Or even an extended ferment. But others seem to be able to get into the keg in under 2 weeks. I just run into that harsh taste that way. I would love to determine the exact cause.

 

[Braufessor]

The AHA has the seminars posted from the 2017 National Homebrewers Conference now. Not sure if anyone can open these or not (without being a member)..... but this one is on Dry Hopping. More specifically, if you go to 22:00- 24:00 he gives a pretty succinct explanation about how dry hopping can lead to Diacetyl as some have experienced. It has been brought up several times in this and other threads - so thought I would share:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/homebrewassoc/wp-content/uploads/Dry-Hopping-Effectively-1.m4v

 

[Jmash]

How long do you usually go prior to kegging?

My though about your current situation is - nothing to loose by an extended cold crash. Or even an extended ferment. But others seem to be able to get into the keg in under 2 weeks. I just run into that harsh taste that way. I would love to determine the exact cause.

I've made well over a dozen batches. Every batch I've done is two weeks. Brew on Saturday. Dryhop #1 the following Wednesday. Dryhop #2 in the keg the next Wednesday. Serving keg and force carb on Saturday.

 

[TomRep]

Last one of these I brewed turned out to be almost exactly like Trillium Summer Street. May have a slightly lighter mouthfeel to it. Haven't really been touching it as I am saving it for a party this weekend, so I will have a better idea then. I believe I have a buddy who still has some Summer Street, so I may be able to get a side by side comparison as well. I will update this weekend.

Okay we had the party last night. My batch was almost the exact same color as Summer Street. My batch also won at being better in a blind tasting. My brother said the trillium may have had a bit more aroma, but that was it. Now, to be fair, the Trillium was canned on March 23rd, so it did have a bit of age on it. But I'm thinking fresh, mine would be the same. I brewed the same batch yesterday but I upped the grain a bit and made this one more a balance of Simcoe and Amarillo, instead of Simcoe forward. Also used imperial juice yeast in this one. Dry hopping tomorrow and should have it on tap by next weekend.

 

[Jmash]

So you are basically grain to glass in a little over a week? I wonder if Trillium does it quickly too. I always notice a grainy/bitter finish to their beers.

 

[TomRep]

Yes and weirdly, that's what I like about theirs. The grain bill on this thread didn't give me that, so I substituted in some biscuit and I got that grainy-ness to it, though not quite enough so I added a bit more to yesterday's batch. I am grain to glass in a week with these, and they are good, but typically best after a week on gas.

 

[Jmash]

My grain bill is closer to a julius clone using half 2 row and half irish ale malt as the main malts plus oats, turbinado, honeymalt, flaked grains etc. but I adhere closely to braufessor's process.

 

[TomRep]

I stick with his process as well. I keep all his Columbus additions the same and just tweak the other hops from there. First time I made it, I used the same Columbus additions and no other hops until dry hopping. I tasted it before dry hopping and it was a fabulous base recipe with just the Columbus, so I figure why change that!

 

[Jmash]

My only hot side addition is 4ml hopshot. Just 160 whirlpool and 2 dryhops

 

[TomRep]

I've been looking to try the hop shots, just haven't gotten there yet. I used some cryo hops for the first time in yesterday's batch for my whirlpool. Well, 2 1/2 ounces worth anyway.

 

[centrical]

So you are basically grain to glass in a little over a week? I wonder if Trillium does it quickly too. I always notice a grainy/bitter finish to their beers.

I also have noticed, in some Trillium beers, the same astringent taste (bitter finish?) that I get in some of mine if I rush them.

Others are a lot cleaner tasting though.

 

[Jmash]

I also have noticed, in some Trillium beers, the same astringent taste (bitter finish?) that I get in some of mine if I rush them.

Others are a lot cleaner tasting though.

Have you tried Glorious by Lord Hobo?

When it's fresh it tastes similar to Treehouse Green. It's not equal to Treehouse Green but it's a lot easier to get.

I've been looking to try the hop shots, just haven't gotten there yet. I used some cryo hops for the first time in yesterday's batch for my whirlpool. Well, 2 1/2 ounces worth anyway.

My current batch is 90% cryohops but I'm going to throw some galaxy pellets in the final

 

[centrical]

Have you tried Glorious by Lord Hobo?

When it's fresh it tastes similar to Treehouse Green. It's not equal to Treehouse Green but it's a lot easier to get.


My current batch is 90% cryohops but I'm going to throw some galaxy pellets in the final

Have you used cryhops before? What's your assessment on them?

 

[Mordhaus]

Well, "bandaid" usually only comes from two places.

1.) Chlorine/chloramine in water..... Assuming you used RO water and assuming the RO water was good... that should not be a problem.

2.) Infection...... taking yeast through 8 generations is quite a bit at the home-brew level. I generally go about 4-5 and just don't take the chance after that. Perhaps that is a possibility.

Another thing that caught my eye - you said you leave star san in your tubing..... I have left tubing in star san over night and it gets slimy and gross as ****. Not sure if that could be a possible problem or not... seems unlikely, as it seems to be standard procedure for you and not sure why it would have affected this one batch.

Your description of "prolonged fermentation" seems to suggest the possibility of infection as a potential culprit.

1. Seems highly unlikely. I don't use RO water, but I have my city's water report and plug it in to Bru N Water and make the necessary adjustments from there. I also use a carbon filter and then add campden tablets.

2. Seems most likely. I've never had an infection, so I don't have experience to know what it would taste like. I can say that the beer didn't "look" infected when I dry hopped it. A normal looking thick layer krausen just like every other time with 1318. That was the last time I saw the beer since I cold crash and do a closed loop transfer to the keg.

I can't figure out where the infection could have come from, though. I've always felt that my sanitation practices are pretty rigorous. Could pitching yeast with poor viability where maybe there was one tiny gremlin cause an infection that highly viable yeast would normally easily overcome?

Is this possibly the throat burning/astringent taste that I have gotten several times with 1318?

I am not sure why I get it, but I believe it's when I don't give it enough time in the fermenter before crashing/kegging, or/and if I don't give it time at a cool temp after active fermentation is over and prior to cold crashing.

I found the if I end the first week at 70 (ramped up from 66 or so), hold at 70 for a couple days, then drop back down to mid 60's for another week, it comes out clean. I have never been able to keg this within 2 weeks. If I try, I get that burning rubber taste. It usually takes 3 with the cold crash, etc.

Did you drop the temp back down for a few days after fermentation was over?

Does anyone else find the need to do this with 1318?

I wouldn't call it throat burning, but it definitely has an astringent, synthetic rubbery (band aid) taste to it. I'm going to pull another sample this evening for analysis.

I've never dropped the temp back down to fermentation temps after ramping up. I ferment 1318 at 66-67, then after day 3-4 it's slowed enough for me ramp the temp a degree every 12 hours.

 

[MaCheFai]

Was thinking about adding some turbinado. Do you add at the end of the boil? I'm trying to get a sweeter and juicier finish, rather than pithy grapefruit. Would love to hear more about your process in trying to gett it closer to a Juliius clone.

My grain bill is closer to a julius clone using half 2 row and half irish ale malt as the main malts plus oats, turbinado, honeymalt, flaked grains etc. but I adhere closely to braufessor's process.

 

[stickyfinger]

The AHA has the seminars posted from the 2017 National Homebrewers Conference now. Not sure if anyone can open these or not (without being a member)..... but this one is on Dry Hopping. More specifically, if you go to 22:00- 24:00 he gives a pretty succinct explanation about how dry hopping can lead to Diacetyl as some have experienced. It has been brought up several times in this and other threads - so thought I would share:

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/homebrewassoc/wp-content/uploads/Dry-Hopping-Effectively-1.m4v

22-24 days?

 

[BrewinSoldier]

22-24 days?

I'm pretty sure he means at 22 minutes to 24 minutes in the video.

 

[Braufessor]

22-24 days?

No..... go to the 22-24 minute mark in the video - that is where they talk briefly about VDK/Diacetyl due to dry hopping.

 

[stickyfinger]

22-24 days?

what's the punch line? i did a forced diacetyl test on a Pliny clone after 13 days in primary, and it was positive for precursors. decided to let it rest another 10 days before a retest when i'm back from vacation.

 

[EndOfLine]

1. Seems highly unlikely. I don't use RO water, but I have my city's water report and plug it in to Bru N Water and make the necessary adjustments from there. I also use a carbon filter and then add campden tablets.

2. Seems most likely. I've never had an infection, so I don't have experience to know what it would taste like. I can say that the beer didn't "look" infected when I dry hopped it. A normal looking thick layer krausen just like every other time with 1318. That was the last time I saw the beer since I cold crash and do a closed loop transfer to the keg.

I can't figure out where the infection could have come from, though. I've always felt that my sanitation practices are pretty rigorous. Could pitching yeast with poor viability where maybe there was one tiny gremlin cause an infection that highly viable yeast would normally easily overcome?




I wouldn't call it throat burning, but it definitely has an astringent, synthetic rubbery (band aid) taste to it. I'm going to pull another sample this evening for analysis.

I've never dropped the temp back down to fermentation temps after ramping up. I ferment 1318 at 66-67, then after day 3-4 it's slowed enough for me ramp the temp a degree every 12 hours.

Band-aid flavor is usually from chlorine or chloramine in water. A very small amount present can cause this off flavor. A carbon filter will get rid of chorine if you have a slow flow, but not chloramine. Cities usually switch to chloramine during the summer because it is higher temperature resistant and won't evaporate away. Can take 4-6 hours just to boil off lol.

Yeasts can also mutate after a few generations. A yeast mutation can give all kinds of bizarre flavors including band-aid.

 

[EndOfLine]

Was thinking about adding some turbinado. Do you add at the end of the boil? I'm trying to get a sweeter and juicier finish, rather than pithy grapefruit. Would love to hear more about your process in trying to gett it closer to a Juliius clone.

Sugar will be nearly 100% consumed by yeast and make your beer even more pithy. You will want more spec malt to increase the final gravity for a more juicy flavor. Juice has tons of sugar it in. The more left over sugar in your beer will give you the result you want.
However too much caramel malt may give you a Cotton candy, prune juice, caramel flavor that will clash with this style of beer. Maybe try malt like carahell, and add a bit of Munich, will give you what you want.

 

[AcreBrewer]

I've made 2 NEIPA's. One is done, my clone of Substance & one my clone of Reciprocal was just racked to dry hopping bucket. I took a sample last night to try it. And it as well as my Substance clone seem to have a higher than normal bitter taste. And not as juice bomb as I would have liked. Esp the Reciprocal clone in process now. It smells awesome. I used about 6 oz at 15 min & 6 more at 140F whirlpool (missed the 160F mark by mistake). I know its early but with the 4 oz of Vic Secret & 2 oz of Stella in the primary dry hop (second dry hop was the same) I expected more of a juice bomb. Maybe it will be better after I cold crash it? Anyone else get more bitter & less juice / fruity?

 

[Gustatorian]

Band-aid flavor is usually from chlorine or chloramine in water. A very small amount present can cause this off flavor. A carbon filter will get rid of chorine if you have a slow flow, but not chloramine. Cities usually switch to chloramine during the summer because it is higher temperature resistant and won't evaporate away. Can take 4-6 hours just to boil off lol.

Yeasts can also mutate after a few generations. A yeast mutation can give all kinds of bizarre flavors including band-aid.

I brew with RO but clean/sanitize kegs with chloramine-treated tap water. I directly transfer my beer to kegs via conicals, and I know there is a bit of tap water left in those kegs (maybe 50 mL). Do you think this is enough to cause a chlorophenolic reaction?

 

[grassfeeder]

I've made 2 NEIPA's. One is done, my clone of Substance & one my clone of Reciprocal was just racked to dry hopping bucket. I took a sample last night to try it. And it as well as my Substance clone seem to have a higher than normal bitter taste. And not as juice bomb as I would have liked. Esp the Reciprocal clone in process now. It smells awesome. I used about 6 oz at 15 min & 6 more at 140F whirlpool (missed the 160F mark by mistake). I know its early but with the 4 oz of Vic Secret & 2 oz of Stella in the primary dry hop (second dry hop was the same) I expected more of a juice bomb. Maybe it will be better after I cold crash it? Anyone else get more bitter & less juice / fruity?

rough calculations in my head but 6oz at 15 minutes is a **** ton of hops at 15 minutes. I think you would have been better off doing a single .5oz bittering addition at 60 and saving the rest for the whirlpool.

 

[Gustatorian]

rough calculations in my head but 6oz at 15 minutes is a **** ton of hops at 15 minutes. I think you would have been better off doing a single .5oz bittering addition at 60 and saving the rest for the whirlpool.

+1, I assume you're using high alpha/high oil hops. 6 oz at 15 minutes will land you above 100 IBUs

 

[Braufessor]

I've made 2 NEIPA's. One is done, my clone of Substance & one my clone of Reciprocal was just racked to dry hopping bucket. I took a sample last night to try it. And it as well as my Substance clone seem to have a higher than normal bitter taste. And not as juice bomb as I would have liked. Esp the Reciprocal clone in process now. It smells awesome. I used about 6 oz at 15 min & 6 more at 140F whirlpool (missed the 160F mark by mistake). I know its early but with the 4 oz of Vic Secret & 2 oz of Stella in the primary dry hop (second dry hop was the same) I expected more of a juice bomb. Maybe it will be better after I cold crash it? Anyone else get more bitter & less juice / fruity?

Yep - like grassfeeder said ...... should not have put any of those hops in at 15 minutes. Everything goes in after the flame goes off except for perhaps a small (1/2-3/4 ounce) bitter addition early on.

 

[Mallchamber]

Mash pH = 5.37-5.42

Final runnings pH = 5.60

Pre-boil Kettle pH = 5.40-5.45

Post Boil pH = 5.3-5.35



We're these readings all taken at room temp?

 

[Braufessor]

Mash pH = 5.37-5.42

Final runnings pH = 5.60

Pre-boil Kettle pH = 5.40-5.45

Post Boil pH = 5.3-5.35



We're these readings all taken at room temp?

all of my readings are room temp.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Sure. OG was 1.060. FG high at 1.022.

Fermentaion day 1: 63F, Day2 65F, Day3 and 4 68F. Room temp after, 73F.

I cool the wort to about 160F before adding hops. Then wait 20min and start chill plate cooling. Don't really stir much, so guess not a true whirlpool.

Cold crashed day 7. Dry hopped on day 8 in bottling bucket (with CO2 purging the entire time), but that turned into a fiasco. The beer is turning for the worse after day 10. Other's have better methods tho.

I thought hop isomerization stopped at 170-175F, that's why I did hopstand/whirlpool at flameout to 175F, when I did mine it took 10 gallons to go from 212F to 175F.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

OK, so I also don't want to sift 450+ pages...

In a nutshell, what is making the cloudiness?

Is it simply proteins from all that wheat malt? Are you skipping kettle finings? Is anyone adding anything specifically to stabilize and suspend the haze...or is that maybe what glucans from the oats are doing?

I think a heavy dosing of dry hops would do more to add the haze than anything else. I never use finings in a NE IPA, it seems counterproductive at best.