New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[weskarl]

Here's my latest go - brewed Friday the 21st, kegged this past Wednesday the 26th and this is from yesterday the 27th- 14# of pale ale malt, 4# oats, 3rd generation A24, Citra and Mosaic:

 

[tjosborne]

^That looks really tasty [emoji39]

 

[Gustatorian]

This is turning out incredible! Tropical galore! FG was really high, 1.022 but the sweetness goes well for sure. No diacetyl.

Care to share the specs of your recipe? Difficult sifting through 457 pages of this thread

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Yep! The dry hops were Cryo Hops so only added 1oz each. I use 100% RO and use Yellow Balanced profile on BrewNwater.

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[marjen]

Brewing with a new hop combination tomorrow. Zythos and HBC 438. Also trying a new yeast, A24. Interested to see how this one turns out.

 

[Gustatorian]

Yep! The dry hops were Cryo Hops so only added 1oz each. I use 100% RO and use Yellow Balanced profile on BrewNwater.

Right on! Mind sharing a few more specs with me? OG, FG, ferm temp? What temp did you whirlpool at? What day did you Dry-Hop on?

 

[hellomynameisryan]

I brewed this beer a little over a month ago and it has turned out very very well! It's been sitting in the bottles about 2.5 weeks now and it keeps getting better. I tried a tester bottle after it had been conditioning for a week or so, and it was disgusting. Like really disgusting. haha. I was scared, but after 14 days, it really started to come together. I think with one more week it will be a real champ.

I simplified the hops a little and just stuck to columbus and citra (mostly citra) and it has an awesome citrus taste happening.

Thanks to the original poster!

 

[MaCheFai]

Just put 1 oz. Citra/ .5 oz. mosaic/ .5 oz. simcoe (all YCH Cryohops) into the dry hop keg on day 11. I'll report back next week

How'd the cryo's work out for you in the dry hop? I have some on deck and curious to hear about your process and how it all worked out flavor wise too!

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Right on! Mind sharing a few more specs with me? OG, FG, ferm temp? What temp did you whirlpool at? What day did you Dry-Hop on?

Sure. OG was 1.060. FG high at 1.022.

Fermentaion day 1: 63F, Day2 65F, Day3 and 4 68F. Room temp after, 73F.

I cool the wort to about 160F before adding hops. Then wait 20min and start chill plate cooling. Don't really stir much, so guess not a true whirlpool.

Cold crashed day 7. Dry hopped on day 8 in bottling bucket (with CO2 purging the entire time), but that turned into a fiasco. The beer is turning for the worse after day 10. Other's have better methods tho.

 

[Morrey]

Brewing with a new hop combination tomorrow. Zythos and HBC 438. Also trying a new yeast, A24. Interested to see how this one turns out.

Would love to hear your review upon completion.

 

[JohnConnor]

Looooooong time lurker/reader, and I want to thank everyone for the awesome discussion. Here's mine... not exactly to recipe but I've taken a lot of the experiences and learnings from this thread.

This is an El Dorado hopped IPA. 70ish IBU's (as if), clocking in at 6.1% ABV. Cheers!

 

[TomRep]

Last one of these I brewed turned out to be almost exactly like Trillium Summer Street. May have a slightly lighter mouthfeel to it. Haven't really been touching it as I am saving it for a party this weekend, so I will have a better idea then. I believe I have a buddy who still has some Summer Street, so I may be able to get a side by side comparison as well. I will update this weekend.

 

[Jmash]

How'd the cryo's work out for you in the dry hop? I have some on deck and curious to hear about your process and how it all worked out flavor wise too!

I ve only done them in 2nd dryhop. Powerful fruity aroma. Flavor about the same. Much less trub.Only been in serving keg for week and a half though and its getting better every day
I brewed a batch Saturday with 1.5 oz citra/1/2 oz mosaic/ 1/2 oz simcoe in 20 minute whirlpool @ 160°. Both dryhops will also be cryos 1 citra/.5 mosaic/.5 simcoe in each

 

[centrical]

Looooooong time lurker/reader, and I want to thank everyone for the awesome discussion. Here's mine... not exactly to recipe but I've taken a lot of the experiences and learnings from this thread.

This is an El Dorado hopped IPA. 70ish IBU's (as if), clocking in at 6.1% ABV. Cheers!

Is it Single hopped with El Dorado? If so, can you describe the flavor of El Dorado by itself? Does it stand up, or would it be better combined with something else?

 

[dyqik]

I've had a commercial El Dorado only NEIPA, and it definitely stood up on its own. I cannot for the life of me remember the brewery though.

ETA: A cunning Google image search tells me it was Lone Pine (El Dorado) Onesie.

 

[braindead]

Nice lil leakage here. Cloudwater producing probably the best NEIPA and DIPA`s in the UK.

 

[JohnConnor]

Is it Single hopped with El Dorado? If so, can you describe the flavor of El Dorado by itself? Does it stand up, or would it be better combined with something else?

It is yes, 15 oz of El Dorado. I'll preface this with I'm pretty sure my second dry hop went bad on me in the freezer. I vacuum sealed and put it in the freezer with in 15 minutes of opening the package. All other hops where great so I'm not sure what happened there. Anyways, went I put the keg hop in, I got this onion-y/earthy note that definitely wasn't there with the other additions. My brother said he didn't smell anything and thought it was good. Well, I was right because everyone was able to pick that out in the finished beer. So that did taint the beer final beer.

Review time with that knowledge. When I was sampling up until my last dry hop, I was hit with a huge pear note with tropical undertones. It was beautiful. I'd say it wasn't as in your face as a Citra or Mosaic but it was delicious. I was so excited... but, alas, I was disappointed with the final version and didn't get the full impact of this hop. With that, I don't think I'd hesitate to use it again in a single hopped beer!

 

[jammin]

Nice lil leakage here. Cloudwater producing probably the best NEIPA and DIPA`s in the UK.

11.7% Golden Naked Oats? Seems like folks have always advised against that high off a % for GNO or sweet/crystal malts at in NEIPA's. I wonder how that tastes

 

[centrical]

I'm pretty sure my second dry hop went bad on me in the freezer. I vacuum sealed and put it in the freezer with in 15 minutes of opening the package. All other hops where great so I'm not sure what happened there. Anyways, went I put the keg hop in, I got this onion-y/earthy note that definitely wasn't there with the other additions.

I have had similar issues with bad hops. I made several NE IPA's lately, some coming out terrible - oniony/harsh. Reviewing my notes I figured out they all had Amarillo hops. It seems I got a bad pound of Amarillo. I avoided them in my latest, and got great flavor again!. I wish I new how to tell, because they don't smell bad.

 

[MrFeltimo]

11.7% Golden Naked Oats? Seems like folks have always advised against that high off a % for GNO or sweet/crystal malts at in NEIPA's. I wonder how that tastes

I use and strongly recommend GNO at this level. It's been a game changer for me.
I haven't experienced any ill effects from it, and to my palate it adds a nice berry'ish note to an English/fruitful beer.

 

[agrazela]

OK, so I also don't want to sift 450+ pages...

In a nutshell, what is making the cloudiness?

Is it simply proteins from all that wheat malt? Are you skipping kettle finings? Is anyone adding anything specifically to stabilize and suspend the haze...or is that maybe what glucans from the oats are doing?

 

[JohnConnor]

I have had similar issues with bad hops. I made several NE IPA's lately, some coming out terrible - oniony/harsh. Reviewing my notes I figured out they all had Amarillo hops. It seems I got a bad pound of Amarillo. I avoided them in my latest, and got great flavor again!. I wish I new how to tell, because they don't smell bad.

Did your Amarillo smell good when you were using them? I mean, mine was pretty drastic. Like I said, I could definitely smell the undertones but I think I'm sensitive to off flavors and off smells than others. My first charges were amazing. All up until the last dry hop. I just wish I trusted my nose and threw the Mosaic in my freezer in instead...

 

[Beerdrinker85]

OK, so I also don't want to sift 450+ pages...

In a nutshell, what is making the cloudiness?

Is it simply proteins from all that wheat malt? Are you skipping kettle finings? Is anyone adding anything specifically to stabilize and suspend the haze...or is that maybe what glucans from the oats are doing?

-Flaked Oats
-Flaked Barley
-Flaked wheat

 

[isomerization]

-Flaked Oats
-Flaked Barley
-Flaked wheat

This is not correct. See Scott janish's post here: http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/

Polyphenols and proteins react to form the haze.

 

[Braufessor]

This is not correct. See Scott janish's post here: http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/

Polyphenols and proteins react to form the haze.

I agree with this. The flaked grains themselves are not enough to create the haze. I don't know that anyone has totally nailed it down yet..... but, I think the leading candidate is an interaction of hop polyphenols with protein during active fermentation.... that is what likely creates the haze. If it is "murky" - that is yeast and possibly hop material in addition to the haze.

I absolutely do not "add" stuff for the sake of haze.... there is lots of talk about adding flour, etc...... there may be some that do that... but I sure don't and never would. I don't think most people/places making good versions of NE IPA are "adding" stuff like flour to purposely create haze.

 

[val214]

Nice lil leakage here. Cloudwater producing probably the best NEIPA and DIPA`s in the UK.

Never had their neipa while in London but, their other brews were amazing. Other had a. Ice body and strong dry hop presence.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1501816504.666750.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1501816529.691457.jpg

 

[Braufessor]

Brewed a couple NE IPA's this week. One was pretty typical to what I normally brew (post 1418). The other I used 60% Golden Promise, 25% wheat, 15% flaked. Hopping at flame out was 3 ounces citra and an ounce each of Galaxy and Columbus. Will do the same for dry hop at day 3. 1.055 OG. Conan yeast.

 

[stonebrewer]

This is not correct. See Scott janish's post here: http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/

Polyphenols and proteins react to form the haze.

I think Scott and others, through research and experimentation, are closing in on the cause, but I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. I am still waiting for a definitive, science backed answer to this question and trying a lot of the things folks are suggesting in my brewery. People are doing/saying lots of different things they believe are contributing to the cause. Some say it is the yeast or a combination of yeast and hops. Others claim adjuncts like wheat, flour, oats. Others definitely add adjuncts into this style of beer...Tired Hands, for instance, is purported to add apple pectin to their beers. Still others are saying it is a combination of things: different yeasts at different temps/stages of fermentation, fermentation or mash temperatures, and other process related changes in combination with ingredients that is causing the effect. I find it interesting that in my experiences it has been easy to create a cloudy beer, but a lot harder to keep the oils in suspension for more than days/weeks. I am getting to the point where I can keep a keg hazy until it kicks, but I have changed so many things I cannot point to a single thing that did the trick...

One thing I would point out is that the search and research for how to brew a good NEIPA has really helped my brewing. Things I believe have contributed are yeast (1318 and 007), adjuncts (wheat and oats, have some apple pectin but have not brewed with it yet), fermentation under pressure in a closed system, whirlpooling with no kettle additions other than a small bittering charge, dry hopping during active fermentation, LODO techniques on the cold side, etc. Not sure if one of these, all of these, or none of these is making my NEIPA taste/smell better and stay turbid for longer but I believe all have helped me brew better beer that stays fresh longer with a better shelf life.

I still am trying to get my head around the concept of oxidized polyphenols from hops causing haze, because they also cause strong flavors that are not pleasant or present in the high quality NEIPAs I have purchased from Tree House, Trillium, etc. nor are they in the beers I brew. In other words, how is the thing that causes an IPA to taste like ass AND creating the permanent NEIPA haze related and what are we doing to get the latter but not the former?

 

[centrical]

Did your Amarillo smell good when you were using them? I mean, mine was pretty drastic. Like I said, I could definitely smell the undertones but I think I'm sensitive to off flavors and off smells than others. My first charges were amazing. All up until the last dry hop. I just wish I trusted my nose and threw the Mosaic in my freezer in instead...

Well, they smelled like hops . They didn't smell obviously bad to me. But maybe if I smelled good and bad Amarillo side by side I could tell the diff. I got a new pound of Amarillo, so maybe I should do a side by side compare. I am hesitant to open the new one and expose it without needing to use it right away though. Paranoid?

 

[Braufessor]

I think Scott and others, through research and experimentation, are closing in on the cause, but I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. I am still waiting for a definitive, science backed answer to this question and trying a lot of the things folks are suggesting in my brewery. People are doing/saying lots of different things they believe are contributing to the cause. Some say it is the yeast or a combination of yeast and hops. Others claim adjuncts like wheat, flour, oats. Others definitely add adjuncts into this style of beer...Tired Hands, for instance, is purported to add apple pectin to their beers. Still others are saying it is a combination of things: different yeasts at different temps/stages of fermentation, fermentation or mash temperatures, and other process related changes in combination with ingredients that is causing the effect. I find it interesting that in my experiences it has been easy to create a cloudy beer, but a lot harder to keep the oils in suspension for more than days/weeks. I am getting to the point where I can keep a keg hazy until it kicks, but I have changed so many things I cannot point to a single thing that did the trick...

One thing I would point out is that the search and research for how to brew a good NEIPA has really helped my brewing. Things I believe have contributed are yeast (1318 and 007), adjuncts (wheat and oats, have some apple pectin but have not brewed with it yet), fermentation under pressure in a closed system, whirlpooling with no kettle additions other than a small bittering charge, dry hopping during active fermentation, LODO techniques on the cold side, etc. Not sure if one of these, all of these, or none of these is making my NEIPA taste/smell better and stay turbid for longer but I believe all have helped me brew better beer that stays fresh longer with a better shelf life.

I still am trying to get my head around the concept of oxidized polyphenols from hops causing haze, because they also cause strong flavors that are not pleasant or present in the high quality NEIPAs I have purchased from Tree House, Trillium, etc. nor are they in the beers I brew. In other words, how is the thing that causes an IPA to taste like ass AND creating the permanent NEIPA haze related and what are we doing to get the latter but not the former?

I agree that for now most of the ideas around haze are just that - ideas and thoughts. However, I do think it is definitely safe to say that the one thing we know for sure is that it is an interaction of variables. It is definitely not any ONE variable - because crystal clear beer can be made with any one of the variables. It definitely has something to do with the hop rates in whirlpool and Dry hop.... high hop rates at these times definitely contribute to "hazier" beer - even when attempting clear beer. Not necessarily NE IPA level haze - but, even if you want to make a "west coast" IPA - lots of late/dry hops can create some level of haze.

I (personally) hate the idea of flour, pectin, etc. in beer. Most critics of NE IPA's immediately bring that up - "These breweries are going to crazy lengths to get their beers murky by adding things like flour....." Tired Hands is often brought up as a well known example. I have to be honest..... I really don't like most beer I have had from Tired Hands. I have drain-poured a fair number of them. I have never had a beer from them that blew me away. I just don't think there is anything "good" that these things can add to the beer and they are not necessary to get the "hazy" aspect in the first place. So, to me, it is just adding something that can make your beer worse and less stable.

I also think chasing "permanent" haze may not be the answer. I have yet to have a good example of one of these beers that stays cloudy forever. Trillium clears up with time in the fridge..... so does night shift, alchemist, tree house, toppling goliath..... give a beer time and cold, and it will start to drop clear. Now, not that it happens instantly or within a few days.... but a few weeks it is not uncommon. Mine will start to drop clearer after 2-3 weeks and will be moderately to low hazy if a keg lasts 5 weeks.

I also agree with your thoughts on poly phenols being potentially bad for the beer flavors..... I think that is exactly why a fair number of these beers aren't that great. I think that is the reason even the good breweries making these have some hit and miss along the way. I think this is also the reason why even the good versions of these don't hold up that great. These beers are best fresh. I have yet to drink a single one of these that got better over time..... 2-5 weeks and they are at their best. They are never better at 6-8 weeks+.
** I do think the LoDo stuff has the potential to help this out. I have been trying to dial some of that in right now with my lagers and blonde ales, but have not messed with it yet on this beer until I get some things nailed down with simpler beers.