New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[stickyfinger]

The method espoused on lowoxygenbrewing.com and similar is to rack the beer into a water purged keg through the liquid dip tube with about 4-6 gravity points remaining and spund the keg. This can be as simple as just sealed it up and letting it ride for another few weeks.

This style normally calls for a massive dry hop or two, which complicates this.

So dry hop at 1.020 for a couple days to scrub the oxygen introduced by the hops, then add priming solution to the fermenter, wait for fermentation to restart (~1 h), then rack to a keg as described above.

that sounds reasonable for something to try, add the priming sugar to the primary and rack the lot into the keg and let rest a few days before chilling down. again, something that would be very exciting to do as a side-by-side experiment.

 

[Braufessor]

The method espoused on lowoxygenbrewing.com and similar is to rack the beer into a water purged keg through the liquid dip tube with about 4-6 gravity points remaining and spund the keg. This can be as simple as just sealed it up and letting it ride for another few weeks.

This style normally calls for a massive dry hop or two, which complicates this.

So dry hop at 1.020 for a couple days to scrub the oxygen introduced by the hops, then add priming solution to the fermenter, wait for fermentation to restart (~1 h), then rack to a keg as described above.

i did a couple batches recently where I added the dry hops on Day 2...... would be interesting to do that and then jump it to a keg when it had a few points left..... I just put together a couple spunding valves to start to check out the low oxygen stuff a little better.
Last 3 batches of this I made, I did a single whirlpool addition around 150 degrees of 6 ounces and a single dry hop of 6 ounces at day 2...... they turned out quite good. Might be another way to blend with the low oxygen/spunding techniques.

 

[dyqik]

My fermentation is slowing, and the krausen dropping this morning, so I guess I'll be adding the first dry hop charge at about 48 hours. The Conan pitch took off in about six hours, which shortens the schedule a bit.

I think I'll be adding priming solution to the primary, waiting an hour, then pressure transferring to the purged serving keg loaded with a dry hop bag (won't be able to water/starsan purge though).

 

[spreemotion]

i did a couple batches recently where I added the dry hops on Day 2...... would be interesting to do that and then jump it to a keg when it had a few points left..... I just put together a couple spunding valves to start to check out the low oxygen stuff a little better.
Last 3 batches of this I made, I did a single whirlpool addition around 150 degrees of 6 ounces and a single dry hop of 6 ounces at day 2...... they turned out quite good. Might be another way to blend with the low oxygen/spunding techniques.

Are you not missing out on a big nose without your secondary hop addition in the (dryhop) keg? I have thought about this as well, however most of the aroma is sent via the airlock out during active fermentation, are you still getting a nice nose to those batches.

I am testing with things as well, ie: spunding valve. However my thoughts were target a 1.018 or 1.019 FG, let fermentation finish out, add a priming solution and then transfer to (dryhop) keg with a conditioning yeast to eat a few of those last points. Would I be in better shape to actually transfer when I have a few points left during active fermentation? Still a big work in progress for me.

 

[Braufessor]

Are you not missing out on a big nose without your secondary hop addition in the (dryhop) keg? I have thought about this as well, however most of the aroma is sent via the airlock out during active fermentation, are you still getting a nice nose to those batches.

I am testing with things as well, ie: spunding valve. However my thoughts were target a 1.018 or 1.019 FG, let fermentation finish out, add a priming solution and then transfer to (dryhop) keg with a conditioning yeast to eat a few of those last points. Would I be in better shape to actually transfer when I have a few points left during active fermentation? Still a big work in progress for me.

I don't know.... not to the point that it is dramatic or anything. I have two on tap right now and they are both great. In fact, I am really pleasantly surprised by one of them..... Centennial, Cascade, Summit. 2 ounces of each in whirlpool at sub 160 and 2 ounces of each in a single dry hop at day 2. It is really good. Kind of surprised that these hops made such a great beer.

As far as the strategy to use .... your guess is as good as mine. I suppose the nice thing about the priming sugar is that you can kind of plan out when you want to do it. Whereas, transferring with a certain number of gravity points left is more of a precision and timing game. The priming sugar would be easier for sure I think.

 

[leesmith]

i did a couple batches recently where I added the dry hops on Day 2...... would be interesting to do that and then jump it to a keg when it had a few points left..... I just put together a couple spunding valves to start to check out the low oxygen stuff a little better.
Last 3 batches of this I made, I did a single whirlpool addition around 150 degrees of 6 ounces and a single dry hop of 6 ounces at day 2...... they turned out quite good. Might be another way to blend with the low oxygen/spunding techniques.

Are you not missing out on a big nose without your secondary hop addition in the (dryhop) keg? I have thought about this as well, however most of the aroma is sent via the airlock out during active fermentation, are you still getting a nice nose to those batches.

I am testing with things as well, ie: spunding valve. However my thoughts were target a 1.018 or 1.019 FG, let fermentation finish out, add a priming solution and then transfer to (dryhop) keg with a conditioning yeast to eat a few of those last points. Would I be in better shape to actually transfer when I have a few points left during active fermentation? Still a big work in progress for me.

I don't know.... not to the point that it is dramatic or anything. I have two on tap right now and they are both great. In fact, I am really pleasantly surprised by one of them..... Centennial, Cascade, Summit. 2 ounces of each in whirlpool at sub 160 and 2 ounces of each in a single dry hop at day 2. It is really good. Kind of surprised that these hops made such a great beer.

As far as the strategy to use .... your guess is as good as mine. I suppose the nice thing about the priming sugar is that you can kind of plan out when you want to do it. Whereas, transferring with a certain number of gravity points left is more of a precision and timing game. The priming sugar would be easier for sure I think.

I haven't quite committed to trying to fully carb my beers with my spunding valve but I can say say that getting them into the keg with as little o2 as possible makes a huge difference on how the hop qualities present.

While my kegs are smaller at 2.5 gallons and go quicker I've never experienced any aroma or hop flavor degradation when I was confident the hops were of good quality and my process followed soundly.

Below is a link to a post of my last hoppy beer made about three weeks ago. I hadn't made a double dry hopped beer with my spunding valve yet because of the worries of primary fermentation slowing and picking up o2 on the transfer to the serving keg with the second round of hops in it. So to counteract this I just bumped up the schedule to day two and day four.

http://www.laundrybrewing.com/2017/07/emily.html

 

[grassfeeder]

I haven't quite committed to trying to fully carb my beers with my spunding valve but I can say say that getting them into the keg with as little o2 as possible makes a huge difference on how the hop qualities present.

While my kegs are smaller at 2.5 gallons and go quicker I've never experienced any aroma or hop flavor degradation when I was confident the hops were of good quality and my process followed soundly.

Below is a link to a post of my last hoppy beer made about three weeks ago. I hadn't made a double dry hopped beer with my spunding valve yet because of the worries of primary fermentation slowing and picking up o2 on the transfer to the serving keg with the second round of hops in it. So to counteract this I just bumped up the schedule to day two and day four.

http://www.laundrybrewing.com/2017/07/emily.html

checked out your blog and love the simplicity of Emily. Question though - why not just dry-hop your keg hops as well to even further simplify. I've noticed no advantages of keg hopping my beers.

 

[jakturner]

I haven't quite committed to trying to fully carb my beers with my spunding valve but I can say say that getting them into the keg with as little o2 as possible makes a huge difference on how the hop qualities present.

While my kegs are smaller at 2.5 gallons and go quicker I've never experienced any aroma or hop flavor degradation when I was confident the hops were of good quality and my process followed soundly.

Below is a link to a post of my last hoppy beer made about three weeks ago. I hadn't made a double dry hopped beer with my spunding valve yet because of the worries of primary fermentation slowing and picking up o2 on the transfer to the serving keg with the second round of hops in it. So to counteract this I just bumped up the schedule to day two and day four.

http://www.laundrybrewing.com/2017/07/emily.html

I saw in your blog you brewed a nelson pale in June and you got some bad batches of nelson. I just tapped a nelson/galaxy version NEIPA and I'm very disappointed, the nelson didn't smell right but I used them anyway because those suckers are expensive. Lesson learned, don't be cheap and trust your nose.

 

[leesmith]

checked out your blog and love the simplicity of Emily. Question though - why not just dry-hop your keg hops as well to even further simplify. I've noticed no advantages of keg hopping my beers.

Thank you.
I was nervous I'd clog the racking cane filter with so many hops in the fermenter and then mess up trying to eliminate o2 by having to take things apart (I push with co2). 6 oz in 2.5 gallons could cause some trouble. But I agree with you. In the beers I hop less, I only do it once. And I keg hop so the yeast is clean that I harvest from primary. This batch I didn't care about harvesting yeast.

 

[leesmith]

I saw in your blog you brewed a nelson pale in June and you got some bad batches of nelson. I just tapped a nelson/galaxy version NEIPA and I'm very disappointed, the nelson didn't smell right but I used them anyway because those suckers are expensive. Lesson learned, don't be cheap and trust your nose.

Yeah, I think it's really important to pay attention to the ingredients. My friend has made a Sip Of Sunshine type of clone many times and this last batch he did was hazier and hoppier. On separate occasions his cousin and I asked after the first couple tastes what he did different. He said nothing....but as we talked he pointed out that he just opened a new pound of Citra for this batch.

I'd suspect a lot of us have been disappointed in beers that were brewed properly but fell short because of "off" hops. Even if the bags are properly sealed from the company who knows how many hands they have passed on from to get to us. How many times they have been sold and resold to vendors and sat in a shipping truck in the heat...and not even high heat but room temp heat but for multiple times between being repackaged and/or put on display.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I'm going to throw this out there just because there appears to be SO MUCH great beer shown on this thread. If anyone is willing to share, and accept brew from others, please join in the Home Brew trade thread just created. Thanks!

FotHB I

And, BTW, throwing in 1st round of dry hop today. My next attempt will be more true to style, I believe. Bought 1318 for the yeast (instead of throwing on a stout yeast cake to save $$$), oatmeal, and 10oz hops total.

 

[marjen]

Well I have two NE IPAs in the fermenters now. I am REALLY hoping I am back on track. Things were going great until I moved up from 5 to 10 gallon batches. Then I had back to back horrible undrinkable beers. I have gone back to 5 gallon batches and really hope these turn out like my previous 5 gallon batches. I think it was related to not pitching enough yeast but I guess we will see.

I have one with Galaxy/Mosaic/Citra and the other with Azecca/El Dorado/Ekuanot.

 

[no_borders]

Collecting first runnings of my NE style Rye IPA. Going citra mosaic Denali for this one. Totally forgot rice hulls but luckily my super fancy mash tun isn't prone to sticking!

 

[Tarpon87]

Braufessor, with all the different things you've been trying with these beers, I'm curious what your process is of transferring from fermenter to keg now?

 

[stickyfinger]

Collecting first runnings of my NE style Rye IPA. Going citra mosaic Denali for this one. Totally forgot rice hulls but luckily my super fancy mash tun isn't prone to sticking!

careful with the denali in dry hop. very powerful pineapple flavor

 

[braindead]

Would you recommend making a starter for ths. Im using The Yeast Bay Vermont Ale yeast.
Been reading mixed opinions???

 

[degivens]

If your recipe calls for over 200 billion cells then yes.

 

[stickyfinger]

Would you recommend making a starter for ths. Im using The Yeast Bay Vermont Ale yeast.
Been reading mixed opinions???

Can't imagine anyone not recommending a starter, at least to wake up the yeast and get them ready if nothing else (unless you are likely to contaminate the yeast with bad yeast handling.)

 

[Braufessor]

Braufessor, with all the different things you've been trying with these beers, I'm curious what your process is of transferring from fermenter to keg now?

My process lately has been this:
*6 ounce dry hop in primary
*2 days before kegging, carry fermenter downstairs and put on counter top to settle
*Fill Keg with star san, push it out with CO2
*Leave CO2 hooked up with 1-2lbs pressure
*Vent keg, pop the lid off, put tubing from fermenter to bottom of keg.
*Set lid back over keg opening
*CO2 is still on very low
*Fill via gravity from fermenter spigot to bottom of keg.
*When done, put lid back on, up pressure, seat lid, vent small head space 5-6 times to hopefully clear out as much O2 as possible.

I know this is not 100% oxygen free or anything...... but, it greatly reduces exposure and has seemed to work quite well.

 

[Braufessor]

Would you recommend making a starter for ths. Im using The Yeast Bay Vermont Ale yeast.
Been reading mixed opinions???

definitely. I make a starter for every beer I brew.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

My process lately has been this:
*6 ounce dry hop in primary
*2 days before kegging, carry fermenter downstairs and put on counter top to settle
*Fill Keg with star san, push it out with CO2
*Leave CO2 hooked up with 1-2lbs pressure
*Vent keg, pop the lid off, put tubing from fermenter to bottom of keg.
*Set lid back over keg opening
*CO2 is still on very low
*Fill via gravity from fermenter spigot to bottom of keg.
*When done, put lid back on, up pressure, seat lid, vent small head space 5-6 times to hopefully clear out as much O2 as possible.

I know this is not 100% oxygen free or anything...... but, it greatly reduces exposure and has seemed to work quite well.

We're having a discussion on the Pliny the Elder thread. Several of us have a long going issue with our heavy hopped IPAs and kegging. After a few days, we sometimes notice a butter type flavor developing. It's not present after primary. Only with ipas tho. Not stouts, not hard lemonaids, not belgiums..ect. Have you had anything like this Brau??

 

[grassfeeder]

My process lately has been this:
*6 ounce dry hop in primary
*2 days before kegging, carry fermenter downstairs and put on counter top to settle
*Fill Keg with star san, push it out with CO2
*Leave CO2 hooked up with 1-2lbs pressure
*Vent keg, pop the lid off, put tubing from fermenter to bottom of keg.
*Set lid back over keg opening
*CO2 is still on very low
*Fill via gravity from fermenter spigot to bottom of keg.
*When done, put lid back on, up pressure, seat lid, vent small head space 5-6 times to hopefully clear out as much O2 as possible.

I know this is not 100% oxygen free or anything...... but, it greatly reduces exposure and has seemed to work quite well.

Why not do this but after you push out the CO2, leave the keg under light pressure and vent, instead of popping off the lid, gravity feed it from the fermenter spigot directly into the kegs line up so it fills from the bottom up with no splash and O2 exposure. That way your lid never pops.

 

[braindead]

Starter on stir plate : )

 

[grassfeeder]

definitely. I make a starter for every beer I brew.

I do if using White Labs or Wyeast. If my beers are 1.070 or less I've been able to get away without a starter when using Imperial Yeast. They've got a great selection for the NEIPA's from their Barbarian, Citrus, DryHop and Juice strains....

 

[beskone]

Why not do this but after you push out the CO2, leave the keg under light pressure and vent, instead of popping off the lid, gravity feed it from the fermenter spigot directly into the kegs line up so it fills from the bottom up with no splash and O2 exposure. That way your lid never pops.

This.

I force transfer from fermenter to kegs "out" post, after pushing out a full 5 gallons of star san. I just leave the pressure valve open so the beer racks in the bottom and pushes the C02 out. Close relief valve, purge 10 times @20psi and all done!

 

[Braufessor]

Why not do this but after you push out the CO2, leave the keg under light pressure and vent, instead of popping off the lid, gravity feed it from the fermenter spigot directly into the kegs line up so it fills from the bottom up with no splash and O2 exposure. That way your lid never pops.

Because I have always had a hell of a time getting this to actually work - especially with heavily dry hopped beers. Best case scenarios it has taken 20 minutes to actually work. Worst case scenarios I have had plugged spigots and it would not drain completely and I ended up taking the lid off any way. Popping the lid and draining with a tube lets me do transfer in 5 minutes or less.

* I even took the guts out of the liquid disconnect and post and still had problems..... this also made me wonder if I was actually letting air in with the guts taken out which might make for an incomplete seal.

Just easier, faster, more consistent - and, with the precautions I take, I have had results I am satisfied with.

*Plus, my fermenters are not set up to pressurize, so it is just straight gravity.

 

[Braufessor]

We're having a discussion on the Pliny the Elder thread. Several of us have a long going issue with our heavy hopped IPAs and kegging. After a few days, we sometimes notice a butter type flavor developing. It's not present after primary. Only with ipas tho. Not stouts, not hard lemonaids, not belgiums..ect. Have you had anything like this Brau??

Absolutely - Diacetyl.....
It can be a real pain in the ass in Heavily dry hopped beers. I have talked to multiple professional brewers who have had this same problem. Beer tastes great after primary, dry hop it and all of a sudden it goes to total crap. I have tasted beer in a local brewery out of the fermenter that was outstanding. 2-3 days later after dry hopping it had turned into a diacetyl bomb. Can be very frustrating.

I know a few instances where people thought they really had the problem in conjunction with US05 (not sure why - could have been as simple as that happened to be the yeast they were using at the time).

One of the speakers at NHC this year mentioned this a little bit in one of the talks and said there had been some recent research in the area (it is a real thing). I believe they were attributing it to the fact that there are sugars in the dry hops and that addition was kicking off the diacetyl production. I will have to go back and check out that talk when they are all posted on the NHC site.

 

[no_borders]

careful with the denali in dry hop. very powerful pineapple flavor

I know it may be off putting to some but I absolutely love denali. The last single hop was 100% denali, with 4 oz in the whirl and 4 in the dryhop. The lot I have has this super dank quality on top of the pineapple.

Also a side note, as soon as I posted that picture my mash stuck on me and totally screwed my efficiency. Spoke too soon I guess. Luckily I don't mind session IPAs :smack:

 

[no_borders]

Absolutely - Diacetyl.....
It can be a real pain in the ass in Heavily dry hopped beers. I have talked to multiple professional brewers who have had this same problem. Beer tastes great after primary, dry hop it and all of a sudden it goes to total crap. I have tasted beer in a local brewery out of the fermenter that was outstanding. 2-3 days later after dry hopping it had turned into a diacetyl bomb. Can be very frustrating.

I know a few instances where people thought they really had the problem in conjunction with US05 (not sure why - could have been as simple as that happened to be the yeast they were using at the time).

One of the speakers at NHC this year mentioned this a little bit in one of the talks and said there had been some recent research in the area (it is a real thing). I believe they were attributing it to the fact that there are sugars in the dry hops and that addition was kicking off the diacetyl production. I will have to go back and check out that talk when they are all posted on the NHC site.

I wonder if it has anything to with o2 exposure. When you first pull a sample it tastes great because the pre cursors haven't oxidized into diacetyl yet, but once the fermenter is opened that's all she wrote.

I had the same issue with lagers when I first started trying to brew them. Samples would taste fine, and as soon as I transferred to a keg, it became a better popcorn topping than a beer. The book "yeast" shows a way to do a forced diacetyl test that really helped me out in deciding to keep beer on the yeast longer, or increase temp to combat the problem.

 

[stickyfinger]

Absolutely - Diacetyl.....
It can be a real pain in the ass in Heavily dry hopped beers. I have talked to multiple professional brewers who have had this same problem. Beer tastes great after primary, dry hop it and all of a sudden it goes to total crap. I have tasted beer in a local brewery out of the fermenter that was outstanding. 2-3 days later after dry hopping it had turned into a diacetyl bomb. Can be very frustrating.

I know a few instances where people thought they really had the problem in conjunction with US05 (not sure why - could have been as simple as that happened to be the yeast they were using at the time).

One of the speakers at NHC this year mentioned this a little bit in one of the talks and said there had been some recent research in the area (it is a real thing). I believe they were attributing it to the fact that there are sugars in the dry hops and that addition was kicking off the diacetyl production. I will have to go back and check out that talk when they are all posted on the NHC site.

wow! very cool info. please tell us all you know. this IS a real problem. i am suffering from it lately. maybe an extended diacetyl rest is the key and fewer dry hops in the primary. never had it happen with 1 oz/gal or less in the dry hop