New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[tjmac5071]

Question for the group - how do you deal with (or do you even get), significant hop particles in your NEIPAs? I did a DDH, first stage in the fermenter, second stage in the keg. The second stage DH was 4 or so ounces, so not extreme. I keg DH loose, I have a shortened diptube (like 1/2 gallon or so shortened at least), and have drilled my stainless steel dry hopper and fit this over the dip tube. This has worked pretty well, but I usually end up with hop debris for a little while. This last batch, it is never ending. The biggest issue is this makes the beer painfully astringent and bitter, as you are scraping your tongue with tons of tiny little hop particles. Aroma is amazing but its pretty much undrinkable until it settles, if it does. The irony being, each day it is on the decline as we all know.

I am thinking the Clear Beer Draught system is in my future.

This picture is from a beer that has been kegged and under CO2 for 9 days at about 40 degrees, undisturbed. The picture was taken about 24 hours after it was poured and started to settle. When it comes out of the keg the hop floaties are everywhere. and they are suuuch tiny little flecks. I don't mind the yeast gunk but there is still so much hop junk.

Here is a picture of the bottom of my glass of trillium mettel double IPA tonight. While the aroma was there the taste was rough. It was the fourth can of a 4 pack and by far the worst. Others were good but still had that astringent flavor. I brew a pale ale that bursts with flavor but uses no dry hops and for my tastes is much better. I am one of the likely few that doesn't love dry hops in my homebrew so if you are like me keep the big flavor hops at 5 min and 160 whirlpool

 

[tjmac5071]

Question for the group - how do you deal with (or do you even get), significant hop particles in your NEIPAs? I did a DDH, first stage in the fermenter, second stage in the keg. The second stage DH was 4 or so ounces, so not extreme. I keg DH loose, I have a shortened diptube (like 1/2 gallon or so shortened at least), and have drilled my stainless steel dry hopper and fit this over the dip tube. This has worked pretty well, but I usually end up with hop debris for a little while. This last batch, it is never ending. The biggest issue is this makes the beer painfully astringent and bitter, as you are scraping your tongue with tons of tiny little hop particles. Aroma is amazing but its pretty much undrinkable until it settles, if it does. The irony being, each day it is on the decline as we all know.

I am thinking the Clear Beer Draught system is in my future.

This picture is from a beer that has been kegged and under CO2 for 9 days at about 40 degrees, undisturbed. The picture was taken about 24 hours after it was poured and started to settle. When it comes out of the keg the hop floaties are everywhere. and they are suuuch tiny little flecks. I don't mind the yeast gunk but there is still so much hop junk.

Here is a picture of the bottom of my glass of trillium mettel double IPA tonight. While the aroma was there the taste was rough. It was the fourth can of a 4 pack and by far the worst. Others were good but still had that astringent flavor. I personally think trillium is a bit overrated, esp when it was $14 per 22oz.

I brew a pale ale that bursts with flavor but uses no dry hops and for my tastes is much better. I am one of the likely few that doesn't love dry hops in my homebrew so if you are like me keep the big flavor hops at 5 min and 160 whirlpool. I also do not have an advanced way to filter out the dry hops so may be part of my problem.

View attachment 1482118507492.jpg

 

[Braufessor]

Here is a picture of the bottom of my glass of trillium mettel double IPA tonight. While the aroma was there the taste was rough. It was the fourth can of a 4 pack and by far the worst. Others were good but still had that astringent flavor. I personally think trillium is a bit overrated, esp when it was $14 per 22oz.

I brew a pale ale that bursts with flavor but uses no dry hops and for my tastes is much better. I am one of the likely few that doesn't love dry hops in my homebrew so if you are like me keep the big flavor hops at 5 min and 160 whirlpool. I also do not have an advanced way to filter out the dry hops so may be part of my problem.

Ugh...... That is not right. I have had several bottle of Trillium. Some have been dynamite. Some have been terrible. I had one that was just utterly full of yeast sludge (like this one). I am sorry... to me, this is NOT what a NE IPA is all about. if the beer is full of clumps of yeast - that is just a flaw, pure and simple. There is no excuse for that.... it is EASY to eliminate that type of thing on a home brew scale. No reason it can't be done on a commercial scale.

 

[EndOfLine]

This is correct that is a big flaw. They may have been the last few cans off the line. They should keep the last 1/2 barrel worth of cans in house for quality control. With our cannery (wild goose) the last 1/2 barrel can be
sludgy/Trubish.
We like to rack the first 1/2 in a keg, can the rest, and keep the last half row of cans in e brewery.

 

[mintyice]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/19/po...normal-vs-high-oxidation-exbeeriment-results/

Nothing we do matters, again

 

[jjw5015]

except for the fact that when you watch the video, they turn that "conical" over, take the end off, expose the bottom to two inches of air, put a new bottom on it, turn it right side up and bubble that two inches of head space up through the entire beer. To be honest, this seems to be the worst possible "solution" to oxygen exposure that can be imagined. Am I missing something?

I honestly didnt even look at the video. Just saw the concept and thought that would keep everything closed loop. Then wondered how dryhopping could be done

 

[jjw5015]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/19/po...normal-vs-high-oxidation-exbeeriment-results/

Nothing we do matters, again

Interesting experiment. Oxidation is obviously a real thing, but I agree that we probably drink these quick enough that most of the time we won't experience it. I don't do anything special to eliminate oxygen. I dryhop in my primary, and then use an autosiphon to keg it after about 10-14 days. No pushing sanitizer, or whatever this Lodo thing is I keep seeing. Then it's usually drank within 2-3 weeks and I've never had any perceived oxidation. I'm not anyone special, just think it is consumed quickly enough. I've read all the admirable lengths people are willing to go to in order to eliminate oxygen, all this time wondering if it's really worth it. Not that one experiment should be the bottom line, but it's worth thinking about the negligible return on investment/effort. Thanks for posting

 

[ttuato]

Am I missing something with "cold crashing" debate on these NEIPA's? Regardless of when in the process, an IPA is always cold crashed at some point in the process - beer is served chilled.....

Option A: Ferment (68F), cold crash (33F) to drop yeast / trub / etc in fermenter, then transfer to keg and dryhop (68F), then chill (40F) and carbonate to serve. (appears to be the minority in this thread)

Option B: (often cited here) Ferment (68F), transfer to keg and dryhop (68F), then chill (40F) and carbonate to serve

Logically speaking, the "chill to serve" in version B equates to being the same as a cold crash. So many folks that use this method talk about "dumping the first couple of pints". Isn't the stuff being dumped the same stuff as what would have been removed in the cold crash in option A, or am I missing something?

If it is the same stuff, then wouldn't option A be preferred since it results in minimal yeast & trub in the final keg? Plus since most of the yeast has been dropped before the final dryhop, all of the precious hop oils have a greater potential to remain suspended in the final product and thus improve the final product. (Yes, I know you can never get all the yeast out of suspension.)

 

[g-star]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/19/po...normal-vs-high-oxidation-exbeeriment-results/

Nothing we do matters, again

This says more about the validity of the "xBmts" than effect of oxidation, which is very real, can be statistically determined over a large population size, and measured with lab equipment

 

[g-star]

Ugh...... That is not right. I have had several bottle of Trillium. Some have been dynamite. Some have been terrible. I had one that was just utterly full of yeast sludge (like this one). I am sorry... to me, this is NOT what a NE IPA is all about. if the beer is full of clumps of yeast - that is just a flaw, pure and simple. There is no excuse for that.... it is EASY to eliminate that type of thing on a home brew scale. No reason it can't be done on a commercial scale.

Agree 100%. These beers everyone is clamoring for (in large part due to their rarity) are not shelf stable and drop off a cliff quickly due to what is really poor brewing/packaging practice. That's why this fad will come and go like so many before them.

 

[jjw5015]

This says more about the validity of the "xBmts" than effect of oxidation, which is very real, can be statistically determined over a large population size, and measured with lab equipment

I think it's more about whether it's perceivable, and if we drink it before it gets to a noticeable point. Don't think it is trying to disprove the actual existence of oxidation.

 

[saltymirv]

I think it's more about whether it's perceivable, and if we drink it before it gets to a noticeable point. Don't think it is trying to disprove the actual existence of oxidation.

I agree with this. The dissolved oxygen amounts are of course measurable with equipment, but the question is whether or not the human palette can distinguish the variable in question. In this case no, but if you read the article you'll see that he racks to an un-purged keg in both scenarios. So really its a question of some oxidation vs a little more. It would be cool if they took DO measurements before and after though. I'm sure they will follow up with more Xbmts in doing purged kegs vs un-purged. I think experimental brewing did an experiment like that recently, I'll have to look up the results

 

[Braufessor]

This says more about the validity of the "xBmts" than effect of oxidation, which is very real, can be statistically determined over a large population size, and measured with lab equipment

I think what a lot of these tell us (ultimately) is that the vast majority of people just, simply, cannot identify "off flavors" or "differences" when sampling beer.

I think the xBmts are generally set up fairly well. I think there probably is differences in the beers that could be "measured" in a lab..... I just think, in general, most people can't really tell the differences reliably. A person's "mind" is a pretty crappy instrument for measuring things.

Once you get beyond "This tastes good now" or "This does not taste good to me right now"...... I think people basically suck at most perceptions beyond that. (I include myself in this judgement too).

 

[Braufessor]

Agree 100%. These beers everyone is clamoring for (in large part due to their rarity) are not shelf stable and drop off a cliff quickly due to what is really poor brewing/packaging practice. That's why this fad will come and go like so many before them.

I can handle the lack of being shelf stable..... If the beer is good when it is young, and I like it..... I will buy it and drink it young.

However, when you get a can or bottle like that one in the picture..... it had problems right off the bat. I don't want a beer like that on day one, or day 50.....

 

[Braufessor]

In this case no, but if you read the article you'll see that he racks to an un-purged keg in both scenarios. So really its a question of some oxidation vs a little more. It would be cool if they took DO measurements before and after though. I'm sure they will follow up with more Xbmts in doing purged kegs vs un-purged. I think experimental brewing did an experiment like that recently, I'll have to look up the results

That is a good point - if they did not actually take any DO readings, this really did not test the effects of oxidation. it tested the perception of a beer with 2 different kegging processes ....processes that may or may not have had the same or different levels of oxidation...

 

[crusader1612]

WLP648 in this beer - thoughts on the mash temp that should be used?

 

[anteater8]

Brewed up a 1:1 Citra:Equinox version of this beer over the weekend, my 5th time using this recipe and tweaking the hops. Will report back when I'm drinking it in a few weeks!

 

[jjbrewhouse]

Hoof Hearted Brewing is going to release a DIPA on New Year's Eve with mosaic and simcoe and they are saying it's going into regular rotation

 

[mintyice]

wlp648 in this beer - thoughts on the mash temp that should be used?

158f

 

[ruascott]

Am I missing something with "cold crashing" debate on these NEIPA's? Regardless of when in the process, an IPA is always cold crashed at some point in the process - beer is served chilled.....

Option A: Ferment (68F), cold crash (33F) to drop yeast / trub / etc in fermenter, then transfer to keg and dryhop (68F), then chill (40F) and carbonate to serve. (appears to be the minority in this thread)

Option B: (often cited here) Ferment (68F), transfer to keg and dryhop (68F), then chill (40F) and carbonate to serve

Logically speaking, the "chill to serve" in version B equates to being the same as a cold crash. So many folks that use this method talk about "dumping the first couple of pints". Isn't the stuff being dumped the same stuff as what would have been removed in the cold crash in option A, or am I missing something?

If it is the same stuff, then wouldn't option A be preferred since it results in minimal yeast & trub in the final keg? Plus since most of the yeast has been dropped before the final dryhop, all of the precious hop oils have a greater potential to remain suspended in the final product and thus improve the final product. (Yes, I know you can never get all the yeast out of suspension.)

I do option A every time. No clogging of dip tube lines and no hop flakes in my final beer. If I don't cold crash, my kegs clog.

 

[grassfeeder]

I do option A every time. No clogging of dip tube lines and no hop flakes in my final beer. If I don't cold crash, my kegs clog.

why even dry hop in the keg? why not just dry hop in the primary and transfer direct to serving keg - force carb that while in the keezer (or whatever), discard first pint and be done with it?

 

[user 141939]

158f

It's my go to answer from now on.

 

[jjw5015]

why even dry hop in the keg? why not just dry hop in the primary and transfer direct to serving keg - force carb that while in the keezer (or whatever), discard first pint and be done with it?

^this. I have no floaties after the first couple pours

 

[ruascott]

why even dry hop in the keg? why not just dry hop in the primary and transfer direct to serving keg - force carb that while in the keezer (or whatever), discard first pint and be done with it?

I don't dry hop in keg. Just in primary.

I cold crash my primary, then keg.

 

[Braufessor]

^this. I have no floaties after the first couple pours

I think it ends up being 6 of one and a half dozen of the others.... I have no floaties in any of my pours by doing the dry hoping before the serving keg.

My main motivation for the methods I use is that it is a tremendous PITA if you start clogging up your liquid out post on the get you plan to serve from. I like to avoid as much hop particulate as possible in any of the steps where I am pushing beer.... It only takes 2 or 3 bad clogs for you to realize you don't want to go that route again.

Either way can work though depending on your system and procedure.

 

[user 141939]

I rigged up a system similar to that blog post in the original. It's the better bottle stainless filter from Utah biodeisel. Fits great inside of a pin lock keg. The drilled stopper fits perfectly.

This is great for dryhopping and I've also used it to make fruited beers. Love it.

I also have a dip tube screen around the base of the diptube. Makes the whole thing a bit of a puzzle to put together. I'm not sure if I even need that though. Just been too chicken to try it without it so far.

https://imgur.com/piuJRZw

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

I rigged up a system similar to that blog post in the original. It's the better bottle stainless filter from Utah biodeisel. Fits great inside of a pin lock keg. The drilled stopper fits perfectly.

This is great for dryhopping and I've also used it to make fruited beers. Love it.

I also have a dip tube screen around the base of the diptube. Makes the whole thing a bit of a puzzle to put together. I'm not sure if I even need that though. Just been too chicken to try it without it so far.

https://imgur.com/piuJRZw

That looks like a nice setup. I just have the 2.5" diameter corny keg dry hopper with an open top in mine which limits my ability to shake up after the hops settle. I also can't fill the keg all the way or floating hops will end up in the strainer. I really just need to stop being lazy and drill the top of the corny keg strainer so it seals off.

 

[grassfeeder]

Just brewed up 2 batches of the following recipe today and utilized 2 different yeast strains to try out.

1) Imperial Yeast - A38 Juice
2) Imperial Yeast - A24 Dryhop


Paper Umbrella NE IPA

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.055
Efficiency: 60% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 7.45%
IBU (tinseth): 31.61
SRM (morey): 5.79

FERMENTABLES:
American - Pale 2-Row (73.2%)
Corn Sugar - Dextrose (4.2%)
American - Caramel / Crystal 15L (2.8%)
American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (2.8%)
American - White Wheat (8.5%)
Flaked Oats (8.5%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 31.61
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Whirlpool for 30 min at 170 °F
2 oz - Citra, Type: Whirlpool for 30 min at 170 °F
2 oz - Mosaic, Type: Whirlpool for 30 min at 170 °F
3 oz - Galaxy, Type: Dry Hop for 5 days
3 oz - Citra, Type: Dry Hop for 5 days
3 oz - Mosaic, Type: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min
2) Sparge, Temp: 168 F, Time: 15 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

WATER NOTES:
take initial ph reading
approx 1 teaspoon of calcium chloride
take pH reading to target 5.2 ph
1 teaspoon of gypsum to mash.
1 teaspoon of gypsum to boil.

 

[mintyice]

Oh ya, 1469 is goooood

 

[optimal_pizza]

@grassfeeder
Looking forward to how those yeasts turn out for you. I've been wanting to try each of those out but can't find them locally or online.