New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Here's my own version. Its not really based on the recipe in this thread, but this thread has become the general NEIPA thread so I figured I'd share here. I busted out the liter mug because I just finished my last final :D

Qpvzmua.jpg


Recipe:

OG/FG: 1.054/1.014
ABV: 5.3%
IBU: 49
SRM: 6.8

Grain:
3.5lbs 2-row
3.5lbs Wheat Malt
2lbs Flaked Oats
1lb Munich II
.5lb Honey Malt
.5lb Victory

Hops:
.25oz CTZ @ 30
.5oz each of Citra/Galaxy/Simcoe @ 10
.75oz each of Citra/Galaxy/Simcoe @ 3
2.75oz Galaxy Dry Hop
1.75oz Simcoe Dry Hop
1.5oz Citra Dry Hop

I did an initial dry hop with 1oz simcoe during active fermentation, 2 days after brewing. Then I added .75oz each of simcoe/galaxy after fermentation was done, which was 6 days after brewing. Then 8 days post brew I cold crashed and transferred to the keg, where I keg hopped with the remaining hops. This was my first time keg-hopping and I actually wasn't that impressed. The haziness went through the roof, but for well over a week the beer was undrinkable it was so astringent. Smelled amazing though. Eventually the hop particles got pulled out through the tap and the astringency settled down

Yeast:
S-04

Water:
I unfortunately didn't take very good notes that day. I vaguely recall targeting:

Cl: 125ppm
SO4: 90ppm
Mash pH: ~5.2-5.3??? I think

Tasting notes: It smells incredible, literally smells like orange/pineapple juice. It also has some dankness to it but its background compared to the juicy flavor. The flavor follows the smell, but the aroma is much stronger than the flavor is. Its medium bodied and has a nice prickly acidity to it. Overall its a good pale ale, but not the best I've made. Next time I think I'll forego the keg hopping in favor of regular dry hopping. I might do something more extreme with the water, I've heard of people using 300ppm Cl and I may give that a go
 
Duden89 said:
I brewed a version of this a couple weeks ago and the beer turned out with good aroma but completely bland. This was my 4th or 5th attempt, all similar to the original recipe. The previous batches were tasty (little high FG usually). The main difference here was that I used distilled water and only gypsum and calcium chloride (about 140ppm sulfate/chloride). Normally I use 100% RO, but I was waiting a lab report to get a baseline. I mashed 149, pitched 2nd generation WLP 007. Used 12.5 oz of mosaic/galazy in a 6 gallon batch. Is it possible the lack of Na/Mg was enough to take a normally delicious beer and make it bland? Or am I missing something else here?

70% Golden Promise
15% Flaked Wheat
15% Flaked Oats
Click to expand...


I started using distilled water strictly to step up my homebrew game. While it does cost more, the results it produces has been great for me. I've only been adding calcium chloride and gypsum to the beers and they've turned out fantastic. If it was bland I'd look at your grain bill. Maybe add a little honey malt like Brau does.

The grain bill you have is very 'clean' and will allow the hops to shine. I like that bill but can see how it could be lacking. Or next time mash higher, 156*-158*, to help keep some residual sugars.

When I first starting diving into NE beers I made the Trillium Fort Point clone and found it very thin and lacking. I have since adjusted the grain and mash temp to add a little more flavor and mouthfeel and am very happy now.
 
I normally toss in a little honey malt, for some reason I just didn't this time. I'll mash a little higher on the next brew. I couldn't seem to get FG below 1.017 on the last few batches so I probably made too large of a correction there. But I also didn't expect 007 to attenuate over 80%. I added a little canning salt and epsom salt in various amounts, I could tell a difference but I wouldn't say either helped it in any significant way. I have an extra 4oz of amarillo, might do a keg dry hop and leave them in.
On a different note, this beer is already clearing up. Not that I was aiming for haze, but that is pretty unusual.
 
ttuato said:
I greatly appreciate all of the knowledge being shared on this thread, I genuinely do. Having said that, out of respect to the OP can we please limit the discussion on this thread to "Northeast IPA" and stop with the thread hijacking....
Click to expand...

schematix said:
The discussion around limiting oxygen and the processes to accomplish it is 100% inline with the OP's topic. There's more to brewing than just recipes, especially this style.
Click to expand...

stickyfinger said:
I would obviously agree. I apologize if some find the discussions off-course. I will defer to Braufessor.
Click to expand...

I partially agree with both sentiments. It is easy to stray off topic in about any thread when something interesting comes up (I am as bad as anyone). Discussion can easily move from the original topic to something that there are already other threads about.

But, it is relevant to acknowledge that there is 100% certainty that oxygen is the enemy of beer - especially one like this.

So, this would be my thought - let's save the "debate" about LoDO/oxygen impact for those threads that are already started. Oxygen IS bad for this beer - no debate. At what point are there diminishing returns? Is "all of that" really necessary?? Whether or not one needs to go to an extreme or not to brew a great beer - we can argue that elsewhere.
Perhaps share a couple links with others about the LoDO discussion threads if it comes up or goes in that direction.

However, if you have specific strategies, processes or some new set up or configuration that reduces oxygen - I say share it with the rest of us. I am always interested in specific strategies that can make my brewing better - we can pick and choose what we attempt to implement, and we can argue about whether or not it is "worth it" in the threads that are on that topic:mug:
 
anyone have experience with ekuanot, kohatu, vic secret or x331 in this style? i think i'll pull the trigger and start doing some single-hop NE IPAs now that I have started to figure out the malt bill, mineral level and bittering that i like in this style. exciting!

:ban:
 
Hey Brau,

Quick question with what you do as far as your process goes. I'm sure it has been addressed somewhere in this almost 300 pages so sorry if this is a repeat question.

With this style, you obviously don't want to filter, but what about finings such as whirl flock? What about cold crashing? Do you think these will alter the flavor and cloudiness? Should i leave them out of the equation? What do you do?

Thanks a ton.
 
BrewinSoldier said:
Hey Brau,

Quick question with what you do as far as your process goes. I'm sure it has been addressed somewhere in this almost 300 pages so sorry if this is a repeat question.

With this style, you obviously don't want to filter, but what about finings such as whirl flock? What about cold crashing? Do you think these will alter the flavor and cloudiness? Should i leave them out of the equation? What do you do?

Thanks a ton.
Click to expand...


Not him.....but I've made this brew 5 or 6 times. I don't do any of the advanced dry,hopping technique....I just dump them into the primary.

I keg, and with the massive amount of hops in this...I have to cold crash....otherwise I've had my kegs clog with hop material. That only happened once before I said never again.....huge pain.

So I cold crash for 36-48 hours, then keg. The beer is delicious...probably not as over the top hop bomb as Bru does it....but it's my house IPA, and it never lasts long. And it's better than most any I can buy in stores.
 
ruascott said:
Not him.....but I've made this brew 5 or 6 times. I don't do any of the advanced dry,hopping technique....I just dump them into the primary.

I keg, and with the massive amount of hops in this...I have to cold crash....otherwise I've had my kegs clog with hop material. That only happened once before I said never again.....huge pain.

So I cold crash for 36-48 hours, then keg. The beer is delicious...probably not as over the top hop bomb as Bru does it....but it's my house IPA, and it never lasts long. And it's better than most any I can buy in stores.
Click to expand...

I've had my kegs clog before as well and it's a pita pulling it all apart to clean it. I have a few stainless conicals so I usually just done all my dry hopping in that, then cold crash for 48hrs before i transfer to the keg that i serve from (all under co2 pressure of course) but I am completely open to trying other ways, such as Brau's.

Should I at least cold crashing the yeast out before dry hopping, and let it free rise back to room temperature before dry hopping? I am so confused lol
 
BrewinSoldier said:
Hey Brau,

Quick question with what you do as far as your process goes. I'm sure it has been addressed somewhere in this almost 300 pages so sorry if this is a repeat question.

With this style, you obviously don't want to filter, but what about finings such as whirl flock? What about cold crashing? Do you think these will alter the flavor and cloudiness? Should i leave them out of the equation? What do you do?

Thanks a ton.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't use anything at all..... No irish moss, no whirl flock, no cold crashing, no filtering, etc....

However, you have to make things fit your own system.

I use SS Brew Buckets that have a conical bottom and a spigot that sits above that area. I leave 3/4 gallon of trub and hop debris behind in my boil kettle as I let it all settle out while chilling and my spigot on my kettle sits up a bit, leaving that dead space. So, I transfer very clean wort (no hop debris or trub) into my fermenter. I dry hop once in the primary. That all settles out pretty well. I rack pretty clean beer (not much hop debris or yeast) into my dry hop keg.... and that is fitted with two screens over the dip tube - so when I eventually transfer to serving keg, the hops are left behind and I never have to worry about clogged posts or beer full of yeast and hop material.

Basically, I rely on leaving behind debris in the kettle and then leaving it behind in the cone of the brew bucket and then leaving it behind in the dry hop keg. But, I also finish my boil with 6.25-6.5 gallons of wort, and lose a bit at each step. But, in the end, I am putting about 4.8-4.9 gallons into my serving keg.

I did add irish moss for a time in the boil.... just kind of out of habit. Never seemed to make any real difference on this beer, so I just quit doing it. I have cold crashed on occasion and I think I used gelatin once or twice.... but, for me, gravity/settling/keg screens in dry hop keg have always worked plenty well.
 
stickyfinger said:
anyone have experience with ekuanot, kohatu, vic secret or x331 in this style? i think i'll pull the trigger and start doing some single-hop NE IPAs now that I have started to figure out the malt bill, mineral level and bittering that i like in this style. exciting!

:ban:
Click to expand...

I just made a version of this with Galaxy and kohatu, came out pretty nice. Got some fruity dankness from the galaxy and more tropical fruit from the kohatu, it's a more delicate hop not nearly as up front in your face as say Citra or Galaxy. I used my kohatu at the 5 min mark, did a 4 oz hopstand with it and then did 2 oz ea in the dry hop.
 
stickyfinger said:
anyone have experience with ekuanot, kohatu, vic secret or x331 in this style? i think i'll pull the trigger and start doing some single-hop NE IPAs now that I have started to figure out the malt bill, mineral level and bittering that i like in this style. exciting!

:ban:
Click to expand...


Ekuanot (formerly equinox) & Kohatu - Personally I was disappointed. Smells good in the bag but does not transfer well to the dryhop IMHO. Slight aroma & flavor but muted compared to some of the other fruity hops. Moteuka is a good alternative to consider for Kohatu - both had a lime character to me but Moteuka is much more pronounced.
 
BrewinSoldier said:
Hey Brau,

Quick question with what you do as far as your process goes. I'm sure it has been addressed somewhere in this almost 300 pages so sorry if this is a repeat question.

With this style, you obviously don't want to filter, but what about finings such as whirl flock? What about cold crashing? Do you think these will alter the flavor and cloudiness? Should i leave them out of the equation? What do you do?

Thanks a ton.
Click to expand...

I have used whirlfloc on the last two batches but will not be using again moving forward. I did four batches prior without whirlfloc, same process - cold crash, CO2 transfer under pressure, C02 purged keg, dry hop in keg, etc.... The first four had strong in your face hop aroma for four weeks before they kicked. These last two started losing aroma after two weeks and was gone by end of week three. I suspect the hypothesis that filtering beer strips some of the hop oils and aroma out also applies for fining agents but the impact takes a while to show up. The huge dryhop compensates for this initially but wears off in time. Also, The whirlfloc batches were hazy but not quite as much as the other four.

@Bruloshopher did an exbeeriment testing gelatin on the NEIPA and did not demonstrate a difference. ( http://brulosophy.com/2016/06/20/th...e-style-pale-ale-exbeeriment-results/)....BUT in the comments section Brulosopher said these kegs were finished off after the testing was completed so no measure of the long term impact of the fining agent vs using none.

Moving forward for me:
Cold crash - yes
Fining agent in the boil - no
Filtering - no
 
Notes / Commercial Description:
IPA with Nelson, Galaxy, Citra, Motueka, and Mosaic hops. Copied that from beer advocate. It's a description or evil twin "copy paste" juicy as all get out.
 
stickyfinger said:
anyone have experience with ekuanot, kohatu, vic secret or x331 in this style? i think i'll pull the trigger and start doing some single-hop NE IPAs now that I have started to figure out the malt bill, mineral level and bittering that i like in this style. exciting!

:ban:
Click to expand...

I brewed this recipe using a mix of Kohatu, Moteuka, and Enigma. It really turned out fantastic. I have brewed this recipe a number of times and my buddy told me this was his favorite. It was my first time using Kohatu and Enigma, so I am unsure (but curious) of how they taste individually. If you do some single hop versions of this stickyfinger, I would be very interested in your results, specifically with Kohatu and Vic Secret. I have wanted to brew with Vic Secret for awhile now.
 
ruascott said:
Not him.....but I've made this brew 5 or 6 times. I don't do any of the advanced dry,hopping technique....I just dump them into the primary.

I keg, and with the massive amount of hops in this...I have to cold crash....otherwise I've had my kegs clog with hop material. That only happened once before I said never again.....huge pain.

So I cold crash for 36-48 hours, then keg. The beer is delicious...probably not as over the top hop bomb as Bru does it....but it's my house IPA, and it never lasts long. And it's better than most any I can buy in stores.
Click to expand...

Are you using OPs original recipe or updated? I already have all the ingredients to make it but I'm in the middle of a move and it's driving me crazy not being able to brew..I want to try this recipe so damn bad. Still need to figure out which way I want to go on water profile though..I'm really thinking about knocking sulfates down to 80-90ppm range and bumping CL up to 140-150ish range. Not sure yet though. For some reason, the last few IPAs that I've made taste really good until you start getting down to the bottom of the glass, and then the flavor kind of changes for some reason. Anyways, I'm really looking forward to brewing this.
 
DaveDiedDancing said:
I brewed this recipe using a mix of Kohatu, Moteuka, and Enigma. It really turned out fantastic. I have brewed this recipe a number of times and my buddy told me this was his favorite. It was my first time using Kohatu and Enigma, so I am unsure (but curious) of how they taste individually. If you do some single hop versions of this stickyfinger, I would be very interested in your results, specifically with Kohatu and Vic Secret. I have wanted to brew with Vic Secret for awhile now.
Click to expand...


What was the mix/schedule?
 
I added .5 oz of Enigma, Kohatu, and Motueka at 10, 5, 1, and at whirlpool (170 and 145). If I was to do it again, I would probably just add them at Flameout and at whirlpool.
 
Just kegged my 1469 NEIPA. Hit it with 2oz each Mosaic, Galaxy, and Citra. Tasting pretty good going into the keg!
 
jjw5015 said:
This would solve the oxygen problem

http://shop.greatfermentations.com/...stem/blichmann-engineering-equipment?a=cv3hbf
Click to expand...

except for the fact that when you watch the video, they turn that "conical" over, take the end off, expose the bottom to two inches of air, put a new bottom on it, turn it right side up and bubble that two inches of head space up through the entire beer. To be honest, this seems to be the worst possible "solution" to oxygen exposure that can be imagined. Am I missing something?
 
mintyice said:
Just kegged my 1469 NEIPA. Hit it with 2oz each Mosaic, Galaxy, and Citra. Tasting pretty good going into the keg!
Click to expand...

Let me know what you think of this..... I have always been curious about 1469, but never pulled the trigger on it in a NE IPA..... I love it in bitters and milds though.
 
droder1 said:
Question for the group - how do you deal with (or do you even get), significant hop particles in your NEIPAs? I did a DDH, first stage in the fermenter, second stage in the keg. The second stage DH was 4 or so ounces, so not extreme. I keg DH loose, I have a shortened diptube (like 1/2 gallon or so shortened at least), and have drilled my stainless steel dry hopper and fit this over the dip tube. This has worked pretty well, but I usually end up with hop debris for a little while. This last batch, it is never ending. The biggest issue is this makes the beer painfully astringent and bitter, as you are scraping your tongue with tons of tiny little hop particles. Aroma is amazing but its pretty much undrinkable until it settles, if it does. The irony being, each day it is on the decline as we all know.

I am thinking the Clear Beer Draught system is in my future.

This picture is from a beer that has been kegged and under CO2 for 9 days at about 40 degrees, undisturbed. The picture was taken about 24 hours after it was poured and started to settle. When it comes out of the keg the hop floaties are everywhere. and they are suuuch tiny little flecks. I don't mind the yeast gunk but there is still so much hop junk.
Click to expand...

Here is a picture of the bottom of my glass of trillium mettel double IPA tonight. While the aroma was there the taste was rough. It was the fourth can of a 4 pack and by far the worst. Others were good but still had that astringent flavor. I brew a pale ale that bursts with flavor but uses no dry hops and for my tastes is much better. I am one of the likely few that doesn't love dry hops in my homebrew so if you are like me keep the big flavor hops at 5 min and 160 whirlpool
 
droder1 said:
Question for the group - how do you deal with (or do you even get), significant hop particles in your NEIPAs? I did a DDH, first stage in the fermenter, second stage in the keg. The second stage DH was 4 or so ounces, so not extreme. I keg DH loose, I have a shortened diptube (like 1/2 gallon or so shortened at least), and have drilled my stainless steel dry hopper and fit this over the dip tube. This has worked pretty well, but I usually end up with hop debris for a little while. This last batch, it is never ending. The biggest issue is this makes the beer painfully astringent and bitter, as you are scraping your tongue with tons of tiny little hop particles. Aroma is amazing but its pretty much undrinkable until it settles, if it does. The irony being, each day it is on the decline as we all know.

I am thinking the Clear Beer Draught system is in my future.

This picture is from a beer that has been kegged and under CO2 for 9 days at about 40 degrees, undisturbed. The picture was taken about 24 hours after it was poured and started to settle. When it comes out of the keg the hop floaties are everywhere. and they are suuuch tiny little flecks. I don't mind the yeast gunk but there is still so much hop junk.
Click to expand...

Here is a picture of the bottom of my glass of trillium mettel double IPA tonight. While the aroma was there the taste was rough. It was the fourth can of a 4 pack and by far the worst. Others were good but still had that astringent flavor. I personally think trillium is a bit overrated, esp when it was $14 per 22oz.

I brew a pale ale that bursts with flavor but uses no dry hops and for my tastes is much better. I am one of the likely few that doesn't love dry hops in my homebrew so if you are like me keep the big flavor hops at 5 min and 160 whirlpool. I also do not have an advanced way to filter out the dry hops so may be part of my problem.

View attachment 1482118507492.jpg
 
tjmac5071 said:
Here is a picture of the bottom of my glass of trillium mettel double IPA tonight. While the aroma was there the taste was rough. It was the fourth can of a 4 pack and by far the worst. Others were good but still had that astringent flavor. I personally think trillium is a bit overrated, esp when it was $14 per 22oz.

I brew a pale ale that bursts with flavor but uses no dry hops and for my tastes is much better. I am one of the likely few that doesn't love dry hops in my homebrew so if you are like me keep the big flavor hops at 5 min and 160 whirlpool. I also do not have an advanced way to filter out the dry hops so may be part of my problem.
Click to expand...

Ugh...... That is not right. I have had several bottle of Trillium. Some have been dynamite. Some have been terrible. I had one that was just utterly full of yeast sludge (like this one). I am sorry... to me, this is NOT what a NE IPA is all about. if the beer is full of clumps of yeast - that is just a flaw, pure and simple. There is no excuse for that.... it is EASY to eliminate that type of thing on a home brew scale. No reason it can't be done on a commercial scale.
 
This is correct that is a big flaw. They may have been the last few cans off the line. They should keep the last 1/2 barrel worth of cans in house for quality control. With our cannery (wild goose) the last 1/2 barrel can be
sludgy/Trubish.
We like to rack the first 1/2 in a keg, can the rest, and keep the last half row of cans in e brewery.
 
Braufessor said:
except for the fact that when you watch the video, they turn that "conical" over, take the end off, expose the bottom to two inches of air, put a new bottom on it, turn it right side up and bubble that two inches of head space up through the entire beer. To be honest, this seems to be the worst possible "solution" to oxygen exposure that can be imagined. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I honestly didnt even look at the video. Just saw the concept and thought that would keep everything closed loop. Then wondered how dryhopping could be done :confused:
 
mintyice said:
http://brulosophy.com/2016/12/19/po...normal-vs-high-oxidation-exbeeriment-results/

Nothing we do matters, again
Click to expand...

Interesting experiment. Oxidation is obviously a real thing, but I agree that we probably drink these quick enough that most of the time we won't experience it. I don't do anything special to eliminate oxygen. I dryhop in my primary, and then use an autosiphon to keg it after about 10-14 days. No pushing sanitizer, or whatever this Lodo thing is I keep seeing. Then it's usually drank within 2-3 weeks and I've never had any perceived oxidation. I'm not anyone special, just think it is consumed quickly enough. I've read all the admirable lengths people are willing to go to in order to eliminate oxygen, all this time wondering if it's really worth it. Not that one experiment should be the bottom line, but it's worth thinking about the negligible return on investment/effort. Thanks for posting
 
Am I missing something with "cold crashing" debate on these NEIPA's? Regardless of when in the process, an IPA is always cold crashed at some point in the process - beer is served chilled.....

Option A: Ferment (68F), cold crash (33F) to drop yeast / trub / etc in fermenter, then transfer to keg and dryhop (68F), then chill (40F) and carbonate to serve. (appears to be the minority in this thread)

Option B: (often cited here) Ferment (68F), transfer to keg and dryhop (68F), then chill (40F) and carbonate to serve

Logically speaking, the "chill to serve" in version B equates to being the same as a cold crash. So many folks that use this method talk about "dumping the first couple of pints". Isn't the stuff being dumped the same stuff as what would have been removed in the cold crash in option A, or am I missing something?

If it is the same stuff, then wouldn't option A be preferred since it results in minimal yeast & trub in the final keg? Plus since most of the yeast has been dropped before the final dryhop, all of the precious hop oils have a greater potential to remain suspended in the final product and thus improve the final product. (Yes, I know you can never get all the yeast out of suspension.)
 
Braufessor said:
Ugh...... That is not right. I have had several bottle of Trillium. Some have been dynamite. Some have been terrible. I had one that was just utterly full of yeast sludge (like this one). I am sorry... to me, this is NOT what a NE IPA is all about. if the beer is full of clumps of yeast - that is just a flaw, pure and simple. There is no excuse for that.... it is EASY to eliminate that type of thing on a home brew scale. No reason it can't be done on a commercial scale.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. These beers everyone is clamoring for (in large part due to their rarity) are not shelf stable and drop off a cliff quickly due to what is really poor brewing/packaging practice. That's why this fad will come and go like so many before them.
 

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