New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Braufessor]

Thanks for responding to this. Two hydrometers. One reads 1.000 in water. The other is a "finishing" hydrometer, if that makes sense. The markings are much further apart and thus easier to read, but it only goes up to 1.020, so all it really tells me is that I am well above that number. I think 1.030 is pretty close to correct.

I am going away for a few days, so I guess I will start with patience whether I want to or not. If I do not see much change on Sunday should I do a new starter of Conan on Sunday night and pitch on Monday, or should I pitch more of a sure thing with US=05? I want to think I pitched plenty of healthy yeast for the size of my batch, but I confess I do not really grok liquid yeast.

FC temp is 68. For about eight hours on Tuesday it dropped to about 62, although I doubt the FV got nearly that low. Is this a factor? Should I now increase the FV temp? If so, to what level?

Also - I think something equal to or even more important than simply getting the right "amount" of yeast is that the yeast is active when you pitch it. I make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before I brew, and I pitch the entire, actively fermenting, starter into the wort. I find much greater success doing this than trying to build a starter up days ahead of time, letting it ferment out, cold crashing it, decanting it, etc....
You need to be "in the ball park" in regard to pitching the right amount..... but, having active yeast and pitching the entire starter is important in my opinion.

 

[whovous]

I know I am getting a bit off topic here, but I really appreciate your advice on the style you seem to have mastered.

I left my starter on the stir plate for several hours after the krausen died down. I hadn't really planned it one way or the other, the brew day just ran a lot later than I had expected. Still, I had a really lovely krausen twelve hours later, so I want to believe the yeast remained fairly active. I did a few unintentional rounds of cold-crashing and decanting previously when I made starters planning to brew only to see the brew day fall through.

Here is what I think I want to do next. I have very little time later this afternoon and then no time until Sunday afternoon. Today, I want to put a packet of US05 into an eight ounce Mason jar (the smallest size I have) and introduce it into the bottom of my Catalyst conical via the bottom valve. This should introduce less oxygen than would removing the lid and stirring the yeast past the thick layer of green that resulted from the introduction of three ounces of hops via the same valve.

I could try to program some temp changes via my Fermostat, but I think it makes more sense to let the US05 do its thing at 68F for a while and then take it up to 70F when I get back on Sunday.

Does this make sense?

 

[crusader1612]

Also - I think something equal to or even more important than simply getting the right "amount" of yeast is that the yeast is active when you pitch it. I make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before I brew, and I pitch the entire, actively fermenting, starter into the wort. I find much greater success doing this than trying to build a starter up days ahead of time, letting it ferment out, cold crashing it, decanting it, etc....
You need to be "in the ball park" in regard to pitching the right amount..... but, having active yeast and pitching the entire starter is important in my opinion.

Good comment. I think this is especially important when your pack/vial maybe not be "brewery fresh"
But I've found that when i pitch an active starter it starts much quicker, and i get a cleaner ferment i think as well.

 

[jammin]

Also - I think something equal to or even more important than simply getting the right "amount" of yeast is that the yeast is active when you pitch it. I make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before I brew, and I pitch the entire, actively fermenting, starter into the wort. I find much greater success doing this than trying to build a starter up days ahead of time, letting it ferment out, cold crashing it, decanting it, etc....
You need to be "in the ball park" in regard to pitching the right amount..... but, having active yeast and pitching the entire starter is important in my opinion.

I strongly agree with this technique too. I can't remember the thread I saw a while ago or who wrote it but it was linked here to another honebrewing site. It was a very good lecture on yeast viability vs. pitch rate. The author talked about the life cycle of yeast & when they are at the best stage to pitch.

One of the main points was that yeast that have completed their fermentation cycle are not the best suited to pitch l. So if your started has "finished" or you crashed it to decant the yeast have gone to sleep. Getting them to start a new cycle takes energy and I can't quite say it as eloquently but hopefully you get the gist.

I understood it that a healthy pitch in a fresh starter can be ready to pitch into your beer in as little as 4hrs. So now I usually make a starter close to a week out, decant it brew day morning & put it on the stir plate with as little as 600ml of starter wort. By the end of the brew day it's nearly always at peak high krausen which I then direct pitch into a bigass IPA. Results have been outstanding. Beers attenuate very well & finish quickly - usually within 6 or 7 days for beers over 1.070 with high 80's AA.

 

[mintyice]

I strongly agree with this technique too. I can't remember the thread I saw a while ago or who wrote it but it was linked here to another honebrewing site. It was a very good lecture on yeast viability vs. pitch rate. The author talked about the life cycle of yeast & when they are at the best stage to pitch.

One of the main points was that yeast that have completed their fermentation cycle are not the best suited to pitch l. So if your started has "finished" or you crashed it to decant the yeast have gone to sleep. Getting them to start a new cycle takes energy and I can't quite say it as eloquently but hopefully you get the gist.

I understood it that a healthy pitch in a fresh starter can be ready to pitch into your beer in as little as 4hrs. So now I usually make a starter close to a week out, decant it brew day morning & put it on the stir plate with as little as 600ml of starter wort. By the end of the brew day it's nearly always at peak high krausen which I then direct pitch into a bigass IPA. Results have been outstanding. Beers attenuate very well & finish quickly - usually within 6 or 7 days for beers over 1.070 with high 80's AA.

My technique now is to do a starter the day before and pitch the whole thing. Usually 1500ml total size, 500ml gets put in a mason jar for next time. I've found my 1318 has started to attenuate more and more but the mouthfeel it gives is still fine. It's not uncommon for 1318 to hit 1.008 or lower for me now.

 

[Braufessor]

I strongly agree with this technique too. I can't remember the thread I saw a while ago or who wrote it but it was linked here to another honebrewing site. It was a very good lecture on yeast viability vs. pitch rate. The author talked about the life cycle of yeast & when they are at the best stage to pitch.

One of the main points was that yeast that have completed their fermentation cycle are not the best suited to pitch l. So if your started has "finished" or you crashed it to decant the yeast have gone to sleep. Getting them to start a new cycle takes energy and I can't quite say it as eloquently but hopefully you get the gist.

I understood it that a healthy pitch in a fresh starter can be ready to pitch into your beer in as little as 4hrs. So now I usually make a starter close to a week out, decant it brew day morning & put it on the stir plate with as little as 600ml of starter wort. By the end of the brew day it's nearly always at peak high krausen which I then direct pitch into a bigass IPA. Results have been outstanding. Beers attenuate very well & finish quickly - usually within 6 or 7 days for beers over 1.070 with high 80's AA.

I've posted a link to this thread several times in various places..... this might be what you are thinking of - it is really good info. Special attention to the posts by S. Cerevisiae: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=20692.0

 

[jammin]

I've posted a link to this thread several times in various places..... this might be what you are thinking of - it is really good info. Special attention to the posts by S. Cerevisiae: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=20692.0

YES! Clutch find. that's a great article that everyone should read. Thanks for posting it again

 

[Braufessor]

I know I am getting a bit off topic here, but I really appreciate your advice on the style you seem to have mastered.

I left my starter on the stir plate for several hours after the krausen died down. I hadn't really planned it one way or the other, the brew day just ran a lot later than I had expected. Still, I had a really lovely krausen twelve hours later, so I want to believe the yeast remained fairly active. I did a few unintentional rounds of cold-crashing and decanting previously when I made starters planning to brew only to see the brew day fall through.

Here is what I think I want to do next. I have very little time later this afternoon and then no time until Sunday afternoon. Today, I want to put a packet of US05 into an eight ounce Mason jar (the smallest size I have) and introduce it into the bottom of my Catalyst conical via the bottom valve. This should introduce less oxygen than would removing the lid and stirring the yeast past the thick layer of green that resulted from the introduction of three ounces of hops via the same valve.

I could try to program some temp changes via my Fermostat, but I think it makes more sense to let the US05 do its thing at 68F for a while and then take it up to 70F when I get back on Sunday.

Does this make sense?

That sounds fine. 68-70 is perfect temp - Sounds like your yeast introduction should work out ok..... I am not familiar with that fermenter, so can't be a big help there.

 

[Braufessor]

YES! Clutch find. that's a great article that everyone should read. Thanks for posting it again

Yeah - he has some great posts on the AHA site in regard to yeast - really made me rethink the way I do a number of things and has resulted in better beer.

 

[ChrisGeb]

Looking for some advice before I brew. This will be my first NE IPA. How does my recipe look (5 gallon)? Too much on the hops? I came up with this recipe after reading a bunch and putting things together from what different people have done. I see a lot of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy combo which sounds amazing. However, I have a ton of Amarillo and Cascade. Any way to sub either of those in here so I can use them up?

100% RO Water
1 tsp of CaCl per gallon
1 tsp of Gypsum per gallon
**Should bring to 140 chloride and 80 sulfate

40% Rahr 2 Row (5.5 lbs)
40% Golden Promise (5.5 lbs)
8% Flaked Oats (1 lb)
4% Flaked Barley (1/2 lb)
4% Weyerman Wheat (1/2 lb)
2% Flaked Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)

60 minute mash @ 152-154

60 Min: 0.75 oz Warrior
Flameout: 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Whirlpool (Chill to 160 or below and whirlpool for 30 mins): 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #1 (Day 4-6): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #2 (Day 12): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy

Yeast - 1318

 

[scottsor]

Looking for some advice before I brew. This will be my first NE IPA. How does my recipe look (5 gallon)? Too much on the hops? I came up with this recipe after reading a bunch and putting things together from what different people have done. I see a lot of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy combo which sounds amazing. However, I have a ton of Amarillo and Cascade. Any way to sub either of those in here so I can use them up?

100% RO Water
1 tsp of CaCl per gallon
1 tsp of Gypsum per gallon
**Should bring to 140 chloride and 80 sulfate

40% Rahr 2 Row (5.5 lbs)
40% Golden Promise (5.5 lbs)
8% Flaked Oats (1 lb)
4% Flaked Barley (1/2 lb)
4% Weyerman Wheat (1/2 lb)
2% Flaked Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)

60 minute mash @ 152-154

60 Min: 0.75 oz Warrior
Flameout: 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Whirlpool (Chill to 160 or below and whirlpool for 30 mins): 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #1 (Day 4-6): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #2 (Day 12): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy

Yeast - 1318

Looks great to me. Definitely not too high on the hops, in my opinion you could go even higher. The batch I posted a couple days ago had a total of about 19oz of hops.

As far as hop selection, I don't think you can really go wrong. I don't think any particular combination will make the batch bad (given the choices you provided). Just give it a try, see how you like it, and adjust.

I'm currently planning out a citra, amarillo, vic secret recipe so I think a citra, amarillo, galaxy batch could be interesting.

 

[grassfeeder]

I figure these brews at 1 pound of hops per.....thats been my best results by far,

 

[Brew_G]

Looking for some advice before I brew. This will be my first NE IPA. How does my recipe look (5 gallon)? Too much on the hops? I came up with this recipe after reading a bunch and putting things together from what different people have done. I see a lot of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy combo which sounds amazing. However, I have a ton of Amarillo and Cascade. Any way to sub either of those in here so I can use them up?

100% RO Water
1 tsp of CaCl per gallon
1 tsp of Gypsum per gallon
**Should bring to 140 chloride and 80 sulfate

40% Rahr 2 Row (5.5 lbs)
40% Golden Promise (5.5 lbs)
8% Flaked Oats (1 lb)
4% Flaked Barley (1/2 lb)
4% Weyerman Wheat (1/2 lb)
2% Flaked Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)

60 minute mash @ 152-154

60 Min: 0.75 oz Warrior
Flameout: 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Whirlpool (Chill to 160 or below and whirlpool for 30 mins): 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #1 (Day 4-6): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #2 (Day 12): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy

Yeast - 1318

Lots you could do, but if it were me I'd leave the Galaxy no matter what (and I'd increase it!), and use the Amarillo and Cascade as a substitute for one or both of the Citra and Mosaic. Cascade for Citra is the obvious sub, and while Amarillo doesn't fit *quite* as neatly into the base recipe it would still be great as a sub for either the Citra or Mosaic.

I posted a couple days ago that I have one of these beers in the fermenter right now (it's my first). It's got Columbus (2 oz), Citra (5 oz), Amarillo (4 oz), and Galaxy (5 oz).

 

[danszabrew]

Looking for some advice before I brew. This will be my first NE IPA. How does my recipe look (5 gallon)? Too much on the hops? I came up with this recipe after reading a bunch and putting things together from what different people have done. I see a lot of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy combo which sounds amazing. However, I have a ton of Amarillo and Cascade. Any way to sub either of those in here so I can use them up?

100% RO Water
1 tsp of CaCl per gallon
1 tsp of Gypsum per gallon
**Should bring to 140 chloride and 80 sulfate

40% Rahr 2 Row (5.5 lbs)
40% Golden Promise (5.5 lbs)
8% Flaked Oats (1 lb)
4% Flaked Barley (1/2 lb)
4% Weyerman Wheat (1/2 lb)
2% Flaked Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)

60 minute mash @ 152-154

60 Min: 0.75 oz Warrior
Flameout: 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Whirlpool (Chill to 160 or below and whirlpool for 30 mins): 1 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #1 (Day 4-6): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy
Dry Hop #2 (Day 12): 1.5 oz Citra/1 oz Mosaic/0.5 oz Galaxy

Yeast - 1318

Did I read that right? 1 tsp per gallon of CaCL and gypsum? Should it be 1 per 5 gallons?

 

[grassfeeder]

Did I read that right? 1 tsp per gallon of CaCL and gypsum? Should it be 1 per 5 gallons?

that should be per 5 gallon batch - i agree. 1 per gallon is crazy

 

[danszabrew]

that should be per 5 gallon batch - i agree. 1 per gallon is crazy

had me worried, im brewing this after work today and I was hoping I had all of my ducks in a row already

 

[olotti]

that should be per 5 gallon batch - i agree. 1 per gallon is crazy

Whew ok I thought I read that wrong as I've been using around 1 to 1+ per 5 gallon or whatever brun water calculates and I read that and thought I was making a huge mistake.

 

[Wolfhound180]

Just brewed this again but bumped up the flaked grains. Used the same hop schedule but used 7270, citra and mandarina Bavaria. We shall see. I am also using WLP095 for the first time.

 

[hopbrad]

brewed 2 batches this week.
2.5 gallons
1.050, 70% german pils, 10% wheat, 10% oats, 10% sugar
apollo to bitter, palisade/apollo at FO, dry hopped yesterday with mosaic and simcoe
100/100ppm chloride sulfate
conan
1st time using oats in this style, curious to see how it turns out

15 gallons
1.062
70% canadian 2 row, 25% wheat, 5% sugar
magnum to bitter, simcoe/apollo/mosaic at FO. will dry hop with mosaic and simcoe
150 chloride, 75 sulfite.
10g with conan. 5g with s-05.

I kegged the 1.050 batch up last week, it was really nice. dank, melon, tropical. The 1.062 batch was a bit disapointing. I had a power outage for 6 hours during the 1st day and things got up to 74 for a few hours. Super fruity leaning towards the banana side of things. overpowers all the delicious hops.
I've gotten some clove/spiciness when Conan got a little warm, but never banana. I was really excited for this one too, 1st time going with 150 chloride/75 sulfate.
I'll see if the Isoamyl acetate fades with some time in the keg and carbed up.
anyone else ever get this with Conan?

 

[joehoppy]

I have, not every time though. Does seem to fade out around week 3.

 

[whovous]

That sounds fine. 68-70 is perfect temp - Sounds like your yeast introduction should work out ok..... I am not familiar with that fermenter, so can't be a big help there.

I cannot get MutiQuote to be my friend, but I would like to follow up on this. When my Conan appeared stuck at 1.030, I added a packet of US-05 at 68F last Thursday afternoon. When I returned on Sunday night, I pushed the temp to 70F. I measured last night and got 1.016. Any clues as to how much longer I should wait on this? How long should a packet of US-05 take to finish its' work on these facts? Repeated measurement is going to add O2, so I don't want to do a lot of that.

 

[Braufessor]

I cannot get MutiQuote to be my friend, but I would like to follow up on this. When my Conan appeared stuck at 1.030, I added a packet of US-05 at 68F last Thursday afternoon. When I returned on Sunday night, I pushed the temp to 70F. I measured last night and got 1.016. Any clues as to how much longer I should wait on this? How long should a packet of US-05 take to finish its' work on these facts? Repeated measurement is going to add O2, so I don't want to do a lot of that.

I would give it 5-7 days to do its thing and drop out. If it isn't done by then, it isn't going to be done.

In regard to gravity readings..... I do them as infrequently as possible. In fact, I rarely do them at all any more. The only time I ever take a reading is sort of for confirmation/curiosity at time of kegging. Basically, at day 10-12 I put my fermenter up on the counter in preparation to keg 2 days later. Day 12-14 I will get things ready to keg and at that time (since I am going to be accessing the beer anyway) I take the first run off (my fermenters have spigots) and use it for a gravity check. This first run off usually has more hop particulate and yeast in it anyway and I don't want it going into the keg. I suppose at that point, if the gravity was high I could attempt a fix at that point.

Basically, once you get a process down with a beer/yeast...... as long as you have healthy, active yeast there is almost zero chance the yeast won't do their job. Obviously, when you are making beers for the first time you might need to be a little more thorough. I have never been a fan of the notion that you check gravity day after day or several times.

 

[whovous]

Thanks once again. Tomorrow night marks 12 days since I pitched the Conan and seven since I added the US-05. I still have a fair amount of what I assume to be my commando dry hop floating on the surface, so tomorrow night I will cold crash it to make it settle, in hopes it will be ready to go by my return on Sunday. The gravity sample I tasted last night makes me pretty hopeful about this one!

 

[dunbruha]

The last 3 months or more I have been going with something in the 140-150 sulfate to 70-80 Chloride. I have really liked that and have just kind of been sticking with it out of simplicity. I am a little hesitant to make any claims comparing one profile to another as I have not done them head to head with the same recipe. I "feel" like maybe this profile is a bit brighter, while maintaining the roundness and smoothness you want in a beer like this. But, that could simply be me thinking too much.

In theory.... I would expect that the higher chloride would round it out. I have never gone over 130-140 range probably on chloride. I think the big thing with this style is that whatever profile you do, something that is a bit subdued is probably better than going too far to any extreme.

I feel like I have everything else where I basically want it at this point (in the update post #1418.) My plan is to do 3 versions exactly the same except for the water and then evaluate to see if there is actually anything of significance.
150:75
75:150
120:120

I honestly think just about anything in those ranges is going to give you a good beer and it may simply come down to personal preferences. Or, it might not even make a big enough difference to matter either.

The only water profile that I really did not like that much was when I went 200 sulfate: 50 Chloride. Just did not come across quite like I thought it should and was quite noticeable.

In the New England IPA article in BYO, there are 5 recipes, each with a different sulfate:chloride ratio: 250:100; 100:100; 300:150; 100:200; and 200:100. So it is all over the map.

 

[RevKev]

In the New England IPA article in BYO, there are 5 recipes, each with a different sulfate:chloride ratio: 250:100; 100:100; 300:150; 100:200; and 200:100. So it is all over the map.

With my notes on the subject of water chemistry I've read 0-100ppm chloride will excentuate malt sweetness and hop character while >300ppm chloride is detrimental to yeast health and combined with high levels of sulfate >400ppm will impart harsh, salty off flavors. 0-250ppm sulfate are defined as adding crisp, sharp notes and >700ppm it will have laxative effects, lol.

Wish I could do a few gallon batches and see for myself.

 

[crusader1612]

it will have laxative effects, lol.

Wish i could do a few gallon batches and see for myself.

about the effects of laxatives?? Have fun with that one.... :fro:

 

[RevKev]

about the effects of laxatives?? Have fun with that one.... :fro:

HAHA no oh god no. I should really read before I post

 

[mintyice]

In the New England IPA article in BYO, there are 5 recipes, each with a different sulfate:chloride ratio: 250:100; 100:100; 300:150; 100:200; and 200:100. So it is all over the map.

Definitely don't do 300ppm sulfate for this style unless you like classic west coast bitterness.

 

[rtracer]

I need to know if I have a problem or if I am just too impatient.

My first try at the NE IPA involved a full package of Gigayeast Vermont IPA in a 2.5 gallon batch which never got much below 1.020. I learned that is a common problem with first-gen Conan. So, I made a batch of Centennial Blonde and harvested the yeast at the end. Thereafter, I've made a few more generations of starters on a stir plate (I am not confident about my process here) and I wound up with a fourth generation which gave me a lot of krausen in the flask (a first for me with Conan) and which took off quickly and very prettily in my new Catalyst fermenter. The krausen was completely gone in under 72 hours. At 96 hours I swapped the trub jar for an eight ounce jar filled with three ounces of pellet hops and took a gravity measurement.

1.030! Isn't this way too high for this stage of the proceedings? My OG was about 1.055. Are there further actions I should take now, or do I just need to be more patient?

I think you are being too impatient(like I was) I used same yeast as you and though it was done and dead at 1.30ish after a few days. I raised ferm temp(beer temp) to 70 and let it sit a week. I just kegged my second batch of this and both have gone from 1.65 to 1.010 & 1.011. I was shoked as I thoght is was pretty much done at 1.030.

 

[whovous]

I think you are being too impatient(like I was) I used same yeast as you and though it was done and dead at 1.30ish after a few days. I raised ferm temp(beer temp) to 70 and let it sit a week. I just kegged my second batch of this and both have gone from 1.65 to 1.010 & 1.011. I was shoked as I thoght is was pretty much done at 1.030.

Someday I may learn to be patient. I wound up pitching a packet of US-05 which took it down to about 1.015 or so, where I again became impatient and started a cold crash. The gravity sample tastes like this should be a good beer in spite of my impatience.