New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[armenianbrewer]

You didn't make a huge mistake! There's nothing wrong with using other hops. Some of the other hops listed and the ones Brau has highlighted may come out more fruity and tropical but there's nothing wrong with using other hops. The beer will just come out different. You may like it!

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

 

[hopbrad]

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

Falconers flight is a good hop blend for the NE style so dont worry. if it were me, id dry hop it with citra. or a combo of citra/columbus to get the tropical dank on the nose and back end.

 

[hopbrad]

or my favorite, mosaic and apollo.

 

[Braufessor]

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

I have always been a pretty big fan of Falconers Flight. I make an all FF amber ale from time to time. It is a "fruitier" blend than say, 7C's. Zythos is pretty good too..... I actually made 3 pale ales at one time and used 1 blend in each of the 3. I think Zythos ended up being my favorite , a bit ahead of FF. 7C's comes off very centennial/cascade heavy.... which is fine, but just not my personal favorite.

 

[lilbova3]

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

I have always been a pretty big fan of Falconers Flight. I make an all FF amber ale from time to time. It is a "fruitier" blend than say, 7C's. Zythos is pretty good too..... I actually made 3 pale ales at one time and used 1 blend in each of the 3. I think Zythos ended up being my favorite , a bit ahead of FF. 7C's comes off very centennial/cascade heavy.... which is fine, but just not my personal favorite.

I don't think it will be muddled and Brau even vouches that FF can be fruity. Take notes on how it tastes and then try other hop combos and start to build a new recipe with different hops and the same grains.

 

[rappinduke]

Pulled the first pint of my latest. Citra, Galaxy and Equinox. I was a little worried of the green pepper rep that Equinox gets and I have to say I'm not getting it. Maybe a tiny bit but that could just be because I'm looking for it. I don't think I would ever go heavy with it but I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a blend.

 

[hopbrad]

Pulled the first pint of my latest. Citra, Galaxy and Equinox. I was a little worried of the green pepper rep that Equinox gets and I have to say I'm not getting it. Maybe a tiny bit but that could just be because I'm looking for it. I don't think I would ever go heavy with it but I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a blend.

da haaa da haaa, da ha ha ha ha haaaa

 

[jjw5015]

All carbed up....so damn good

View attachment 1472779891655.jpg

 

[rappinduke]

da haaa da haaa, da ha ha ha ha haaaa

I'm feeling the groove now pilgrim...

 

[jbedell2]

My most recent batch has been kegged for a few days now, and it's not as amazing as the last one. The aroma is still pretty good, but the finish is a bit harsh and actually feels a little bit sharp in the back of my throat. A friend described it as "prickly."

I tried to make a lower gravity version by reducing each of the base grains by a pound. But my conversion was also low and brew house efficiency was only 53%. I kept my water additions the same as the last batch, including 1tsp of Lactic Acid. I also changed the dry hop schedule a little bit because of what I had on hand.

Here are the specs:
OG 1.057, FG 1.014, ABV 5.6
.75 Warrior @ 60
1/1/1 Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in both Whirlpools
Dryhop 1: 1 oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic @ Day 4
Dryhop 2: 1 oz Mosaic, 2 oz Galaxy @ Day 11
Kegged Day 16 (for some reason there was still a tiny bit of airlock activity)

Water additions:
3g Gypsum
2g Epsom
1g Table Salt
8g CaCl
3g Baking Soda
1tsp Lactic
This was the same water profile as my last batch, which was great.

So, here are some possible explanations for the difference:
1) Too acidic? Maybe the lactic acid was too much, given the lower grain bill, which caused the low conversion and harsh flavor? In retrospect, I should have been less lazy and recalculated the water additions, but I wanted to stick with what worked so well in the last batch.
2) Too young? The airlock activity at Day 16 was weird. Maybe I needed a bigger starter?
3) Too much Galaxy in the second DH? I don't see why this would cause harshness, though.

Interested to hear anyone's thoughts about what could be causing the harsh flavor and throat sharpness.

Thanks!

 

[hezagenius]

@jbedell2

When I keg my versions of this, it always has a harsh taste for about a week. It's usually quite astringent and bitter. I chalk this up to suspended hops and yeast. After chilling, they'll eventually drop out and some will get sucked up into the dip tube. Once you've cleared the loose particles out, I find the beer tastes much better. I do heavy dry hopping and use 1318 yeast. I actually find the beer to be better after a few weeks in the keg.

And this has happened with each version of this beer that I've done (4 so far) regardless of the grainbill or hops used. I've used 1318 in each batch.

 

[rappinduke]

I actually got that throat thing you are talking about the first time I brewed this beer. I used spring water and added 1 tsp of CaCl and 1/2 tsp of gypsum per 5 gal of water. Since switching to RO water I have not had that happen again. The harshness eventually went away over time in that first batch.

 

[Braufessor]

My most recent batch has been kegged for a few days now, and it's not as amazing as the last one. The aroma is still pretty good, but the finish is a bit harsh and actually feels a little bit sharp in the back of my throat. A friend described it as "prickly."

I tried to make a lower gravity version by reducing each of the base grains by a pound. But my conversion was also low and brew house efficiency was only 53%. I kept my water additions the same as the last batch, including 1tsp of Lactic Acid. I also changed the dry hop schedule a little bit because of what I had on hand.

Here are the specs:
OG 1.057, FG 1.014, ABV 5.6
.75 Warrior @ 60
1/1/1 Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in both Whirlpools
Dryhop 1: 1 oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic @ Day 4
Dryhop 2: 1 oz Mosaic, 2 oz Galaxy @ Day 11
Kegged Day 16 (for some reason there was still a tiny bit of airlock activity)

Water additions:
3g Gypsum
2g Epsom
1g Table Salt
8g CaCl
3g Baking Soda
1tsp Lactic
This was the same water profile as my last batch, which was great.

So, here are some possible explanations for the difference:
1) Too acidic? Maybe the lactic acid was too much, given the lower grain bill, which caused the low conversion and harsh flavor? In retrospect, I should have been less lazy and recalculated the water additions, but I wanted to stick with what worked so well in the last batch.
2) Too young? The airlock activity at Day 16 was weird. Maybe I needed a bigger starter?
3) Too much Galaxy in the second DH? I don't see why this would cause harshness, though.

Interested to hear anyone's thoughts about what could be causing the harsh flavor and throat sharpness.

Thanks!

Harsh flavor..... I usually equate this to a few things:
*possibility of over carbonation
*water chemistry
*rough hops (galaxy "can" do this.... not always. But it is a strong hop)

The #1 thing I notice is your water additions.

*There is never a reason to add baking soda AND lactic acid.... they are doing the opposite thing. You should NEVER add baking soda to a pale beer in my opinion.

*How much is "a tsp" of lactic acid???? I generally use 1-3 ml in 5 gallons of mash water. On line calculator suggests 1tsp = 5ml.....

* Were those additions for mash? mash and sparge combined? How many gallons of water did you add those additions to?

*If I was guessing, It seems to me you added a lot of "stuff" to your water, and that could be giving you some issues.

*Was it RO water you started with?

 

[Braufessor]

I actually got that throat thing you are talking about the first time I brewed this beer. I used spring water and added 1 tsp of CaCl and 1/2 tsp of gypsum per 5 gal of water. Since switching to RO water I have not had that happen again. The harshness eventually went away over time in that first batch.

The good thing about RO water is you know what is in it. "Spring Water" can basically be about anything in regard to mineral content.... so, unless you get a print out of the mineral content of spring water, it is really not a good starting point.

 

[jbedell2]

Harsh flavor..... I usually equate this to a few things:
*possibility of over carbonation
*water chemistry
*rough hops (galaxy "can" do this.... not always. But it is a strong hop)

The #1 thing I notice is your water additions.

*There is never a reason to add baking soda AND lactic acid.... they are doing the opposite thing. You should NEVER add baking soda to a pale beer in my opinion.

*How much is "a tsp" of lactic acid???? I generally use 1-3 ml in 5 gallons of mash water. On line calculator suggests 1tsp = 5ml.....

* Were those additions for mash? mash and sparge combined? How many gallons of water did you add those additions to?

*If I was guessing, It seems to me you added a lot of "stuff" to your water, and that could be giving you some issues.

*Was it RO water you started with?

Thanks for this and the other replies. I start with 100% RO water. I admittedly am a novice with respect to water chemistry, so I use the water calc in Brewer's Friend to fiddle around with additions until I get a calculated value close to your original suggestion. I eBIAB with no sparge so the amounts I stated are for 8.8 gallons. I added the baking soda into the equation to get the HCO value close to yours. Maybe that's why the calculator is suggesting so much lactic, because it needs to cancel out the baking soda.

As I mentioned, the calculation I used was for the grain bill I used in the previous batch, which was identical except for an extra 1.5lbs of each of the base grains. I should have recalculated everything, but the last batch was so good I didn't want to change any of the additions.

Here's the water calc report:

Ca+2 86.4
Mg+2 5.9
Na+ 36.5
Cl- 134.1
SO4-2 73.6
HCO 64.124
Alkalinity -13.1
Residual Alkalinity -78.2

Targe mash pH: Add 5.24 ml (~1.0 tsp)
Mash pH *: 5.40

Mash thickness: 2.13 qt/lb
pH Delta from Water: -0.29
effective water residual alkalinity: -16.64 ppm as CaCO3
effective strength of weak acids: 91.09 ppm as CaCO3
* mash prediction is for mash sample cooled to 25 C / 77 F

SO42-/Cl- ratio: 0.5 Very Malty
Total lactic acid as equivalent acidulated malt in grist: 2.5 %

Thanks again. I'm also hoping hezagenius is onto something with the suspended yeast/hops.

 

[Braufessor]

Thanks for this and the other replies. I start with 100% RO water. I admittedly am a novice with respect to water chemistry, so I use the water calc in Brewer's Friend to fiddle around with additions until I get a calculated value close to your original suggestion. I eBIAB with no sparge so the amounts I stated are for 8.8 gallons. I added the baking soda into the equation to get the HCO value close to yours. Maybe that's why the calculator is suggesting so much lactic, because it needs to cancel out the baking soda.

As I mentioned, the calculation I used was for the grain bill I used in the previous batch, which was identical except for an extra 1.5lbs of each of the base grains. I should have recalculated everything, but the last batch was so good I didn't want to change any of the additions.

Here's the water calc report:

Ca+2 86.4
Mg+2 5.9
Na+ 36.5
Cl- 134.1
SO4-2 73.6
HCO 64.124
Alkalinity -13.1
Residual Alkalinity -78.2

Targe mash pH: Add 5.24 ml (~1.0 tsp)
Mash pH *: 5.40

Mash thickness: 2.13 qt/lb
pH Delta from Water: -0.29
effective water residual alkalinity: -16.64 ppm as CaCO3
effective strength of weak acids: 91.09 ppm as CaCO3
* mash prediction is for mash sample cooled to 25 C / 77 F

SO42-/Cl- ratio: 0.5 Very Malty
Total lactic acid as equivalent acidulated malt in grist: 2.5 %

Thanks again. I'm also hoping hezagenius is onto something with the suspended yeast/hops.

Suspended yeast/hop material can make a beer sort of harsh for sure.... so that could be part of it.

My tap water is hard.... so, if I use some of that I have to use lactic acid to offset it. When I use all RO... I do not chase any bicarbonate numbers.

I need to take some time this weekend and make an update post and get it attached to the original post to clarify a few things..... Put that on the "to do" list.

 

[MGM]

I've got one going with a Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy hop bill. I'm going back and forth on whether to just do a second dry hop or if I should use those hops in the keg. I also have an ounce of Cascade cones, but do you all think throwing those in the keg (if I use my Mosaic and Galaxy as 2nd dry hop) will interfere with the hop profiles I'm working with?

 

[armenianbrewer]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1472900462.361083.jpg accidentally measured the hydrometer sample after I had mixed in the priming sugar (so not sure how to adjust it back down to where it actually finished. I take it maybe 1.010, SG was 1.068)

However, I think I overdid it on the dry hopping with this recipe. Sampled tastes very grassy, thick pine and only very slight citrus but hard to distinguish with the significant bite from the all the grass

Will this mellow out or subdue at all?

 

[ViciousFishes]

My most recent batch has been kegged for a few days now, and it's not as amazing as the last one. The aroma is still pretty good, but the finish is a bit harsh and actually feels a little bit sharp in the back of my throat. A friend described it as "prickly."

I tried to make a lower gravity version by reducing each of the base grains by a pound. But my conversion was also low and brew house efficiency was only 53%. I kept my water additions the same as the last batch, including 1tsp of Lactic Acid. I also changed the dry hop schedule a little bit because of what I had on hand.

Here are the specs:
OG 1.057, FG 1.014, ABV 5.6
.75 Warrior @ 60
1/1/1 Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in both Whirlpools
Dryhop 1: 1 oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic @ Day 4
Dryhop 2: 1 oz Mosaic, 2 oz Galaxy @ Day 11
Kegged Day 16 (for some reason there was still a tiny bit of airlock activity)

Water additions:
3g Gypsum
2g Epsom
1g Table Salt
8g CaCl
3g Baking Soda
1tsp Lactic
This was the same water profile as my last batch, which was great.

So, here are some possible explanations for the difference:
1) Too acidic? Maybe the lactic acid was too much, given the lower grain bill, which caused the low conversion and harsh flavor? In retrospect, I should have been less lazy and recalculated the water additions, but I wanted to stick with what worked so well in the last batch.
2) Too young? The airlock activity at Day 16 was weird. Maybe I needed a bigger starter?
3) Too much Galaxy in the second DH? I don't see why this would cause harshness, though.

Interested to hear anyone's thoughts about what could be causing the harsh flavor and throat sharpness.

Thanks!

This may be a stretch, but I n addition to the thoughts on your water, I wonder about bittering with .7oz of Warrior. For this style, I usually bitter to no more than 13 IBUs to balance out the malt and get the rest of my IBUs from a 5 or 10 minute addition. Could that be a source of (some of) your "prickliness"?

 

[brew703]

Looking to brew batch #2 tomorrow.
BIAB
3.5 gal (3 gal in fermenter)
6 gal filtered water (machine at grocery)
Trying to get my water additions--use Bru n Water Pale Ale profile
Added when grains go in.
3 grams gypsum
1.5 gram Epsom
4.2 grams calcium chloride
With these additions, this is what I get:
calcium: 139 target / 82 actual
magnesium: 18 target / 65 actual
sodium: 17.8 target / 7.2 actual
sulfate: 299 target / 100 actual
chloride: 51.4 target / 92.9 actual
bicarbonate: 95.5 target / 14.5 actual

Do I need to make any changes to these to these additions? I've messed around with different amounts but can never seem to get close on all categories.

 

[IMXELITE]

I just kegged another batch and I have learned a few things. It was my first time using pellets without hop bags in boil and fermentation, learned the hard way it makes up a huge amount of trub loss. I put 6.2gal in my fermenter and only got 4.65gal into the keg. Also note I put 1500ml yeast starter in without decanting.

Everything was done in the primary. Maybe its just me and using slightly different hops (Columbus, citra, mosaic) but the hop presence seems much greater not using bags but the amount of trub loss I am fighting myself to see if it's worth it. My carboy is only 6.5 gal so it might be time to use a bigger fermenter for these ipa's that require 12 plus oz of hops.

 

[Braufessor]

Looking to brew batch #2 tomorrow.
BIAB
3.5 gal (3 gal in fermenter)
6 gal filtered water (machine at grocery)
Trying to get my water additions--use Bru n Water Pale Ale profile
Added when grains go in.
3 grams gypsum
1.5 gram Epsom
4.2 grams calcium chloride
With these additions, this is what I get:
calcium: 139 target / 82 actual
magnesium: 18 target / 65 actual
sodium: 17.8 target / 7.2 actual
sulfate: 299 target / 100 actual
chloride: 51.4 target / 92.9 actual
bicarbonate: 95.5 target / 14.5 actual

Do I need to make any changes to these to these additions? I've messed around with different amounts but can never seem to get close on all categories.

I think that all looks fine as far as mineral additions. You should be good.

 

[Braufessor]

I just kegged another batch and I have learned a few things. It was my first time using pellets without hop bags in boil and fermentation, learned the hard way it makes up a huge amount of trub loss. I put 6.2gal in my fermenter and only got 4.65gal into the keg. Also note I put 1500ml yeast starter in without decanting.

Everything was done in the primary. Maybe its just me and using slightly different hops (Columbus, citra, mosaic) but the hop presence seems much greater not using bags but the amount of trub loss I am fighting myself to see if it's worth it. My carboy is only 6.5 gal so it might be time to use a bigger fermenter for these ipa's that require 12 plus oz of hops.

I have just gotten to the point where I fully expect to only end up 1-2 pints short in the serving keg with this beer.

 

[brewski09]

View attachment 368775 accidentally measured the hydrometer sample after I had mixed in the priming sugar (so not sure how to adjust it back down to where it actually finished. I take it maybe 1.010, SG was 1.068)

However, I think I overdid it on the dry hopping with this recipe. Sampled tastes very grassy, thick pine and only very slight citrus but hard to distinguish with the significant bite from the all the grass

Will this mellow out or subdue at all?

I think the priming sugar adds 0.003 SG

Maybe, maybe not. How long were the dryhops in cap tact with the finished beer?

 

[armenianbrewer]

3 gal batch.

First 1oz dry hopped at tail end of high active fermentation at day ~ 4, second 1oz dry hopped 3 days after that, then last 1oz dry hop for only 2 days. Bottled at day 13

So in summary FF for all dry hop additions for ~8, ~6, and ~2 days each.

Whirlpooled 1oz of FF for 15 min each at 180 and 140 degrees as well.

 

[Oceanbear1]

Brewed what was supposed to be a 1.067 starting gravity version of this yesterday using BIAB method. Way undershot my starting gravity though and ended up with 1.060. I was shooting for 75% efficiency but I think I was more at 68%. So my beer may end up more in line with the original recipe. Definitely something I need to work on for future batches.

 

[pegasus17459]

Thank you Braufessor for this instruction on brewing, you are a giant.

From Florida and recently vacationed in New England https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...rinking-the-holy-grail-s.438157/#post-4923736

I knew i was going to love the beer, but the problem is that I wouldn't be able to buy the beer down here when I got back. I would have to make it. I have partial mashed brew before, years ago, so I am familiar with brewing basics. I started the all grain process two months before I left for New England, anticipating my need for this beer once I got back. Bought John Palmer, read every web site, post, blog, magazine that I could on the basics of all grain and specifically how it related to New England style IPA.

I decided to base my recipe off your recipe Braufessor. Here is what I did, some unexpected difficulties and what I will do next time (actually already in the fermentor).

Recipe

Grain
7.5 lbs 2-row
4 lbs golden promise
1.5 lbs wheat
0.5 lbs flaked oats
0.5 lbs flaked barley
0.25 lbs honey malt
0.25 lbs c-20

Hops
0.75 ounce warrior 60 min
F/O 1 ounce each cit/mos/gal
160 degree W/P 1 ounce each cit/mos/gal
Dry Hop day 5 two ounces citra and one ounce galaxy
Dry Hop day 12 two ounce citra and once ounce galaxy
All done in primary fermentor and transferred to keg on day 15.

Water
All distilled water, with braufessors recommendation of 1 tsp CaCl to 1/2 tsp gypsum per 5 gal. 6 gallons into primary

Yeast
Omega labs conan yeast. 1500 ml starter. OG 1.063 to FG 1.014 (6.4% alc) this was by design

The Difficulties
* Had to boil for 2&1/2 hours. I was not correcting hydrometer for temp and thought my preboil gravity was much lower than it was. Once I realized this I actually had to put more water into the boil to compensate. Amazing I still hit my OG.

*Could not cool wort past 80 degrees. Went into fermentation at 80 degrees into 60 degree fridge and followed Braufessor fermentation schedule thereafter.

*During mash I was using pH test strips. They are worthless. I kept getting a reading showing that pH was too low, I dissolved 1 teaspoon baking soda into 1 cup distilled and slowly added a teaspoon here and there. It was not changing my readings, so I decided the hell with it. Maybe 1/4 tsp baking soda was added to the mash.

The Results

I brought back with me from New England: Galaxy DH Fort Point, Julius, Green, Bright, Substance, Focal Banger, Heady Topper and a growler of Hill Farm Stead all galaxy. I am able to compare my beer day in and day out with these other brews from a quality stand point. My beer falls below these others, but not by much. The aforementioned beers have a greater focus, bigger body, and more pronounced hop taste. Thats its.

The Changes (and some myths too)

This what I think is needed to make a beer as good or better than those above. This is based a little on my limited brewing experience and a lot on reading over the past 3-4 months, hours a day. Put your "personal" palate to the side just for a moment.

*Sulfate needs to be 2 to 1 to chloride. I'm sorry but this has to be. JC from trillium has said so much. When nate gave a recipe to BYO he mentioned sulfate to taste, nothing about CaCl. I think the sulfate has to be high in order to reach the hoppiness. Isn't every homebrewer saying "wow my beer is good, but doesn't quite have the hoppy punch that (insert name) has".

*I would really caution against using multiple hops in the dry hop unless you really know what you are doing (or are following an exact recipe that is proven). If you are brewing the same beer for the 20th time trying to nail down a nuance than you can introduce a new hop at a certain stage. If you are trying to brew a new england ipa for the first (or fifth) time you are more than likely going to end up with something more muddled in flavor.

*Dextrine needs to be used to provide body. Unless you want something super super session-able, the beer is going to lack in body. I suppose a healthy dose of flaked oats or barley may also work ala Tired hands, but Trillium posts there recipes and it is amazing how f****** simple the ingredients are. I think we get carried away with adjuncts. Hell they use just plain two row, don't even opt for the more flavorful GP or MO.

*New England ipa's are hazy because of 1) the grain (wheat in the case of most, british malts in the case of the Alchemist) and 2) the dry hop oils (which will fall out). The yeast has NOTHING to do with it.

*Oxygenation is a little overstated. If you aren't sloshing around hot wort, have a good seal on your fermentor and take basic precautions when transferring you are FINE. For example, primary to keg. Fill keg with star san, force out using CO2, open lid and slowly, gently, carefully fill keg from primary (via spigot/auto-siphon). I guarantee that beer will taste as good as if it was fully transferred under C02.

*Save aromatic hops strictly for Dry Hopping. While I don't think adding citra/galaxy to F/O or whirlpool hurts anything, I question how much benefit you really get from it.

*Warm ground water. For my second brew (now in fermentor) I purchased an $18 fountain pump from harbor freight. I chilled wort to 100 degrees or so using ground water. Then filled cooler with 40 pounds of ice (maybe a little overkill) and recycled that water via the pump through an immersion chiller. Worked PERFECTLY. I know this has been talked about before, but I just wanted to put a further emphasis on it for those of us in the south.

*Water profile. For my second brew (now in fermentor) I bought spring water from Zephyrhills (roughly 12 gallons). They post there water profile analysis on line and fits perfectly with Brun water. I bought a small scale. I believe that this preciseness in water and water salts will be the biggest improvement in my new batch. Everybody bitches about buying water. For the price of 2 m***** f****** happy meals you can have water from a trusted source with a guaranteed analysis. Use your local spring water company.

In closing, my second batch is hopefully going to duplicate (with the goal of surpassing) Trillium's Galaxy Dry Hopped Fort Point Pale Ale. There is a recipe for it from years ago in BYO, but following that is only half the battle. The process is just as important. I read every JC post there is on BA. If you read them carefully he is telling you how to make beer that rivals anything. Also I watched this from Chop and Brew

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfySDN2mF0[/ame]

Episode 22: John Kimmich from The Alchemist. While it is a lot of his story about how he started, he offers super big information on how to brew New England ipa's. I particularly took note of the mash pH not to exceed 5.3ish and hitting a water hardness of 350ppm.

I will post results of this batch in a couple weeks.

 

[pegasus17459]

A pic of my beer.

 

[IMXELITE]

A quick note on water to those using RO. I have found the best water to me was from filling jugs at whole foods or any place that has Primo water. It was $0.39 a gal for me and that was an amazing price in my opinion.

 

[crusader1612]

*Sulfate needs to be 2 to 1 to chloride. I'm sorry but this has to be. JC from trillium has said so much. When nate gave a recipe to BYO he mentioned sulfate to taste, nothing about CaCl. I think the sulfate has to be high in order to reach the hoppiness. Isn't every homebrewer saying "wow my beer is good, but doesn't quite have the hoppy punch that (insert name) has".

Not Strictly true, having spoken to local brewers wher I am, the belief is that Sulphate is important, however Chloride can be at a 1:1 ratio, to soften the bitterness, the only difference is, you sulphate needs to be high.

*Dextrine needs to be used to provide body. Unless you want something super super session-able, the beer is going to lack in body. I suppose a healthy dose of flaked oats or barley may also work ala Tired hands, but Trillium posts there recipes and it is amazing how f****** simple the ingredients are. I think we get carried away with adjuncts. Hell they use just plain two row, don't even opt for the more flavorful GP or MO.

Dextrine can obviously help with body. But when your brewing an IPa, in this style the higher wheat/oats ratio's will reduce the need to dextrine malts. the beers can be as simple as Pale and Oats. (a la Tired hands)

*Oxygenation is a little overstated. If you aren't sloshing around hot wort, have a good seal on your fermentor and take basic precautions when transferring you are FINE. For example, primary to keg. Fill keg with star san, force out using CO2, open lid and slowly, gently, carefully fill keg from primary (via spigot/auto-siphon). I guarantee that beer will taste as good as if it was fully transferred under C02.

this is terrible advice. oxygen is your enemy, especially when transferring. your oxygen risk is considerably higher post fermentation.
Hot-side aeration is not a thing IMO.

*Save aromatic hops strictly for Dry Hopping. While I don't think adding citra/galaxy to F/O or whirlpool hurts anything, I question how much benefit you really get from it.

Again, no. The benefit is tenfold. some bitterness depending on when its added. hop saturation. enough said. I've done normal pale ales with and without a flameout, and the difference was considerable. (I'm talking a bittering addition and maybe a 30 min addition + dryhop) Brulosophy suggests you can get good extraction from a 20minute addition, just with some additional bitterness. i think there would be a difference between 20min and flameout with 20 min whirlpool, but its not as stark as people think.
but a difference is a difference.

 

[Braufessor]

A quick note on water to those using RO. I have found the best water to me was from filling jugs at whole foods or any place that has Primo water. It was $0.39 a gal for me and that was an amazing price in my opinion.

For sure - this is the only way to go. I use Primo water refill at Walmart..... 6 x 3 gallon jugs. .39 cents a gallon. As cheap as it gets.

 

[Braufessor]

Thank you Braufessor for this instruction on brewing, you are a giant.

I don't know about that... but glad you got something out of the recipe and got a good baseline start with where you want to go. That is the goal with this recipe.... it is a really solid starting point, and can be adjusted to individual tastes.

During mash I was using pH test strips. They are worthless. I kept getting a reading showing that pH was too low, I dissolved 1 teaspoon baking soda into 1 cup distilled and slowly added a teaspoon here and there. It was not changing my readings, so I decided the hell with it. Maybe 1/4 tsp baking soda was added to the mash.

I have a good pH meter and take regular measurements. I guarantee you that you are not low on pH using all RO water and the generic additions I suggested. If anything, you would be a touch high. Don't add any baking soda at all. If I was going to guess.... 1ml of lactic acid in mash and sparge would be the pH adjustment I might recommend to get down into the 5.35-40 range. No baking soda needed for sure.

*Sulfate needs to be 2 to 1 to chloride. I'm sorry but this has to be. JC from trillium has said so much. When nate gave a recipe to BYO he mentioned sulfate to taste, nothing about CaCl. I think the sulfate has to be high in order to reach the hoppiness. Isn't every homebrewer saying "wow my beer is good, but doesn't quite have the hoppy punch that (insert name) has".

I don't disagree with this.... I have been playing around and recent batches I have been going with 150 sulfate and 75 chloride - I really like it. However, I want to play around with something like 130:130 a little and see what I think too. That said.... I think this is highly individualized as far as personal taste. It does not "have to be".... I know there are many breweries making these beers that are absolutely going higher chloride. I also know many recommend 1:1 in the 120-150 range for both as well. My recommendation would be to find a version you like and brew it 3 times.... 150 chloride: 75 Sulfate, 75 chloride: 150 Sulfate and 125-150 in an even ratio. Then see what you personally like.

*Dextrine needs to be used to provide body. Unless you want something super super session-able, the beer is going to lack in body. I suppose a healthy dose of flaked oats or barley may also work ala Tired hands, but Trillium posts there recipes and it is amazing how f****** simple the ingredients are. I think we get carried away with adjuncts. Hell they use just plain two row, don't even opt for the more flavorful GP or MO.

I don't know about this..... I don't use any dextrine malts and my beers have a pretty good body to them. That said, I NEVER brew big versions of this beer. I am 100% in the 1.050-1.060 range. I am currently using 15% or so flaked grains. This gives great body, full mouthfeel, etc.

*New England ipa's are hazy because of 1) the grain (wheat in the case of most, british malts in the case of the Alchemist) and 2) the dry hop oils (which will fall out). The yeast has NOTHING to do with it.

I very much, personally, agree with this. Some of these beers absolutely have a large "yeast" element to them. Mine don't. I (personally) am not a fan of "yeastiness" in these beers in regard to haze. That said.... I have had "yeasty" beers that were spectacular. I have also had yeasty beers that were drain-pours.... including one from Trillium..... yes, you read that right, I dumped the better part of a bomber of Trillium down the drain.

*Oxygenation is a little overstated. If you aren't sloshing around hot wort, have a good seal on your fermentor and take basic precautions when transferring you are FINE. For example, primary to keg. Fill keg with star san, force out using CO2, open lid and slowly, gently, carefully fill keg from primary (via spigot/auto-siphon). I guarantee that beer will taste as good as if it was fully transferred under C02.

I don't think oxygenation is overstated.... it will absolutely ruin your beer. However, I agree.... this is EXACTLY what I do. I fill my keg with star san. I push it out with CO2. I take the lid off and fill with a tube from the fermenter to the bottom of the keg. I set the lid on top while doing this ..... I figure (rightly or wrongly) that filling a keg that is full of CO2, from the bottom in 3 minutes..... with positive pressure out.... is going to reduce minimal O2. I put the lid in place and purge the small head space 5-8 times with CO2. I have never had any problem with oxygenation at all.

*Save aromatic hops strictly for Dry Hopping. While I don't think adding citra/galaxy to F/O or whirlpool hurts anything, I question how much benefit you really get from it.

My gut says I disagree with you. However, I would have to do 2 beers side by side to say that unequivocally. I have not done that.... perhaps at some point in the future.... especially as hops like Citra/Galaxy and Mosaic become more and more of a PITA to acquire. I currently have 10 pounds of each in the freezer.... so, not quite in desperation mode yet

Episode 22: John Kimmich from The Alchemist. While it is a lot of his story about how he started, he offers super big information on how to brew New England ipa's. I particularly took note of the mash pH not to exceed 5.3ish and hitting a water hardness of 350ppm.

I LOVE that video... awesome interview/talk.

Personally, I think Heady Topper is an outlier in regard to "NE IPA's." I know that it was the "first" one.... but it is not at all similar to a lot of the "juicy" NE IPA's. It is a much more bitter, assertive IPA. I have been fortunate to drink it often, but for me, it is not really an example of what I think this "style" consists of.

Lots of great thoughts..... let us know how some of your new batches turn out and what you like/don't like. That is the name of the game for sure. Brew a beer 30 or 50 times........ tweaking little things and see what stands out, what makes no difference at all.....

For me, I think the #1 thing that makes very little difference is yeast (within reason). I think there are at least 6-10 yeasts you can use in this beer and have it turn out great. What matters? I still think Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic in some combination are extraordinarily hard to beat..... I have tried a lot of combos..... but, those hops are almost cheating

 

[WesM63]

I finally brewed this today. I ended up doing a single hop with Ariana as I wanted to get them used up and had just the right amount. Hit the numbers spot on (OG 1.055) and pitched Gigayeast Vermont IPA.

My next batch will be the revered Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic.

 

[brewski09]

My gut says I disagree with you. However, I would have to do 2 beers side by side to say that unequivocally. I have not done that.... perhaps at some point in the future.... especially as hops like Citra/Galaxy and Mosaic become more and more of a PITA to acquire. I currently have 10 pounds of each in the freezer.... so, not quite in desperation mode yet

I do a pale ale where I've messed with hop timing a lot. Removing the late boil hops make almost no impact. Removing the whirlpool hops makes a large impact and are worth keeping in. Dryhop only beers end up with a different character and leaves the beer a bit one dimensional on the hops if you have no other aroma/flavor hops.

Just my 2 cents

 

[lilbova3]

In regard to some of pegasus' comments, Trillium uses the same base for their beers but will add some corn sugar to up the ABV and dry them out for their IPAs/DIPAs. They do use dextrose and a light crystal. I've heard their percentages are around:
74% 2 Row
20% White wheat
3% Carapils/Dextrine
3% C15
And they use Conan.

There's so many ways to get the mouthfeel I think. Brau does use honey malt which is technically a crystal malt (20* L range) and then flaked adjuncts. I love the honey malt, and never would have thought to use it until Brau provided this recipe, but I go a few steps further and use white wheat and flaked adjuncts close to 30%, Carapils at 5% and Honey at 2%. I also mash very high at 156. I believe having some residual sugars left around help with the juicy sweetness.

If it's producing results you like that's all that matters. [emoji482]

 

[armenianbrewer]

I think the priming sugar adds 0.003 SG

Maybe, maybe not. How long were the dryhops in cap tact with the finished beer?

So it was a 3 gallon batch..

The first 1 oz of dry hops went in at tail end of visual/active fermentation on day 4, then the second 1 oz of dry hops went in 3 days later, followed by the final 1 oz of dry hops for only 2 days before bottling at day 13.

So in summary, FF for all dry hop additions which were in contact with the batch for ~9, ~6, and ~2 days per 1 oz of FF.

I also had two whirlpool additions of 1 oz of FF for 15 min each at 180 and 140 degrees as well.

Total hop bill for my batch:

.5oz FWH sorachi ace
.5oz 5 min FF
.5oz 0 min FF
1 oz FF 180 degree 15 min whirlpool
1 oz FF 140 degree 15 min whirlpool
1 oz 9 day dry hop FF
1 oz 6 day dry hop FF
1 oz 2 day dry hop FF

.5 of sorachi ace, 6 oz of FF for 3 gallon batch

 

[jbedell2]

I don't disagree with this.... I have been playing around and recent batches I have been going with 150 sulfate and 75 chloride - I really like it. However, I want to play around with something like 130:130 a little and see what I think too. That said.... I think this is highly individualized as far as personal taste. It does not "have to be".... I know there are many breweries making these beers that are absolutely going higher chloride. I also know many recommend 1:1 in the 120-150 range for both as well. My recommendation would be to find a version you like and brew it 3 times.... 150 chloride: 75 Sulfate, 75 chloride: 150 Sulfate and 125-150 in an even ratio. Then see what you personally like.

Would it be possible to split a batch before it goes into primary and make these additions at that point? Then everything, including the age of the batch, would be exactly the same, allowing a truly direct comparison. Not sure how one would hit correct mash pH, calculate additions, etc.

Maybe start with 75:75 for mash and boil, separate into 1-gallon fermenters, and add additional modifiers there?

OR, what about just adding them when bottling/kegging, or even in a growler?

Does the impact on taste from sulfate and chloride occur during mash, boil, fermentation, or just end product?

I'd really like to taste these three variations side by side, but don't have the capacity or time to do three full batches in quick succession.

 

[thedon986]

I still think Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic in some combination are extraordinarily hard to beat..... I have tried a lot of combos..... but, those hops are almost cheating

Cannot agree with this more! Yesterday, I opened my first bottle of this beer of which I followed your recipe for the most part, but I added a touch of Crystal to give it more of an orange color and it turned out great. The best IPA I have brewed by far, not even close. I did go with 1oz of Warrior at the beginning and really like the amount of bitterness I ended up with. The CMG combo is amazing in both aroma and flavor.

 

[jbedell2]

My most recent batch has been kegged for a few days now, and it's not as amazing as the last one. The aroma is still pretty good, but the finish is a bit harsh and actually feels a little bit sharp in the back of my throat. A friend described it as "prickly."

I tried to make a lower gravity version by reducing each of the base grains by a pound. But my conversion was also low and brew house efficiency was only 53%. I kept my water additions the same as the last batch, including 1tsp of Lactic Acid. I also changed the dry hop schedule a little bit because of what I had on hand.

Here are the specs:
OG 1.057, FG 1.014, ABV 5.6
.75 Warrior @ 60
1/1/1 Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in both Whirlpools
Dryhop 1: 1 oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic @ Day 4
Dryhop 2: 1 oz Mosaic, 2 oz Galaxy @ Day 11
Kegged Day 16 (for some reason there was still a tiny bit of airlock activity)

Water additions:
3g Gypsum
2g Epsom
1g Table Salt
8g CaCl
3g Baking Soda
1tsp Lactic
This was the same water profile as my last batch, which was great.

So, here are some possible explanations for the difference:
1) Too acidic? Maybe the lactic acid was too much, given the lower grain bill, which caused the low conversion and harsh flavor? In retrospect, I should have been less lazy and recalculated the water additions, but I wanted to stick with what worked so well in the last batch.
2) Too young? The airlock activity at Day 16 was weird. Maybe I needed a bigger starter?
3) Too much Galaxy in the second DH? I don't see why this would cause harshness, though.

Interested to hear anyone's thoughts about what could be causing the harsh flavor and throat sharpness.

Thanks!

Just wanted to follow up on this for others' reference. This beer improved dramatically after about a week in the keg. I think it was just young, as suggested by hezagenius and rappinduke. I also think Braufessor was right that my water additions are overly complicated, and I'll address that in my next batch. But, fortunately, this one is drinking beautifully now.

Thanks again for everyone's replies.

 

[pegasus17459]

I do a pale ale where I've messed with hop timing a lot. Removing the late boil hops make almost no impact. Removing the whirlpool hops makes a large impact and are worth keeping in. Dryhop only beers end up with a different character and leaves the beer a bit one dimensional on the hops if you have no other aroma/flavor hops.

Just my 2 cents

Yes, I definitely believe in whirlpool hops. I just question using the highly aromatic hops in them (such as citra/galaxy), but this I'm not sure of, was just a thought.

I am pretty sure that Trillium uses WLP007. Like just about positive. JC has stated on BA that he uses a VERY flocculant yeast, which Conan is not.

Oxygen is definitely the enemy. However, if you use the process that Braufessor uses I highly doubt any discernible oxygenation is going to take place.