New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[lilbova3]

Try it!

I brewed a porter on sunday - 100% RO water, no additions of any kind.

Came in at:
5.41 mash pH
5.47 pre boil kettle pH
5.27 post boil pH

Kind of using it as a baseline beer to test out some different water additions with porters.

I also plan to brew one with 100% high bicarbonate (275ppm) tap water.

Then a third where I use 100% RO water with additions to get a "desired" water profile in regard to hardness and minerals for a dark beer.

I might try an IPA with no additions after I see how this first porter goes.

Please keep us posted on this porter!

 

[BrunDog]

Try it!



I brewed a porter on sunday - 100% RO water, no additions of any kind.



Came in at:

5.41 mash pH

5.47 pre boil kettle pH

5.27 post boil pH



Kind of using it as a baseline beer to test out some different water additions with porters.



I also plan to brew one with 100% high bicarbonate (275ppm) tap water.



Then a third where I use 100% RO water with additions to get a "desired" water profile in regard to hardness and minerals for a dark beer.



I might try an IPA with no additions after I see how this first porter goes.

Easier to get your pH in the range with the roast malts of course. Use pale malts and you would need the acid. I know you know that, just sharing for others learning.

 

[ViciousFishes]

Apologies if I've missed this earlier in this excellent thread. Braufessor, do you dry hop in primary during active, initial, fermentation? Or do you dry hop during diacetyl reset? My practice has been to dry hop at the beginning of day 2 (of three) at 72* during my d-rest, approximately 4-5 days from initial pitch of my starter.

I was recently reading something about the benefits of biotransformation of hop oils into something magical during the initial, active phase of fermentation.

Can you clarify your practice/preference at this point your process?

 

[lilbova3]

Apologies if I've missed this earlier in this excellent thread. Braufessor, do you dry hop in primary during active, initial, fermentation? Or do you dry hop during diacetyl reset? My practice has been to dry hop at the beginning of day 2 (of three) at 72* during my d-rest, approximately 4-5 days from initial pitch of my starter.

I was recently reading something about the benefits of biotransformation of hop oils into something magical during the initial, active phase of fermentation.

Can you clarify your practice/preference at this point your process?

At the end of active fermentation is perfect and your timing right now is good. That's when I do mine on day 5-6 after the temp has risen to help the beer finish.

Scott Janish posted something about the biotransformation of oils stating that it is true. He theorized that you could put the dry hops in before you even pitch the yeast to really get a good transformation. I don't pull my dry hops or transfer to a secondary so I throw them in around day 5-6, leave for 5-6 days then keg with some more hops in the keg (bagged). If you can pull your dry hops or transfer off the first dry hop try throwing them in earlier. I believe Brau does add them with a few points left and then transferred to a keg for the second dry hop.

The science behind it is (and this is straight from Janish) geraniol is transformed into citronellol (sweet citrus fruit like aroma) and linalool was converted to terpineol (lilac aroma is the best descriptor). I've thought about doing one of my next brews with hops high in geraniol (Centennial, Mosaic, Simcoe) for the first dry hop addition and then switching it up to the more fruity known hops (Mosaic, Galaxy, Citra, Nelson, El Dorado etc) for the second go around.

 

[Braufessor]

Apologies if I've missed this earlier in this excellent thread. Braufessor, do you dry hop in primary during active, initial, fermentation? Or do you dry hop during diacetyl reset? My practice has been to dry hop at the beginning of day 2 (of three) at 72* during my d-rest, approximately 4-5 days from initial pitch of my starter.

I was recently reading something about the benefits of biotransformation of hop oils into something magical during the initial, active phase of fermentation.

Can you clarify your practice/preference at this point your process?

I am not ultra-precise on the first dry hop.... sometimes it just depends on how busy I get. But, ideally, I like to throw them in primary fermenter around day 4 or 5 when there is still some fermentation going on, but probably getting toward the end. Then, around day 10-12 I transfer to my dry hopping keg for second shot of dry hops. I leave them there for 2 days, and move to serving keg on day 12-14.

 

[armenianbrewer]

At the end of active fermentation is perfect and your timing right now is good. That's when I do mine on day 5-6 after the temp has risen to help the beer finish.

Scott Janish posted something about the biotransformation of oils stating that it is true. He theorized that you could put the dry hops in before you even pitch the yeast to really get a good transformation. I don't pull my dry hops or transfer to a secondary so I throw them in around day 5-6, leave for 5-6 days then keg with some more hops in the keg (bagged). If you can pull your dry hops or transfer off the first dry hop try throwing them in earlier. I believe Brau does add them with a few points left and then transferred to a keg for the second dry hop.

The science behind it is (and this is straight from Janish) geraniol is transformed into citronellol (sweet citrus fruit like aroma) and linalool was converted to terpineol (lilac aroma is the best descriptor). I've thought about doing one of my next brews with hops high in geraniol (Centennial, Mosaic, Simcoe) for the first dry hop addition and then switching it up to the more fruity known hops (Mosaic, Galaxy, Citra, Nelson, El Dorado etc) for the second go around.

So did I do a huge mistake going all Falconer's Flight with this recipe?

It's reported to have Citra, Simcoe and Sorachi Ace and then some other experimental hop varieties if I recall correctly.

 

[lilbova3]

So did I do a huge mistake going all Falconer's Flight with this recipe?



It's reported to have Citra, Simcoe and Sorachi Ace and then some other experimental hop varieties if I recall correctly.

You didn't make a huge mistake! There's nothing wrong with using other hops. Some of the other hops listed and the ones Brau has highlighted may come out more fruity and tropical but there's nothing wrong with using other hops. The beer will just come out different. You may like it!

 

[VT_jlee]

Brewed my first beer inspired by this thread. WOW is this good!! Super bright hops, dry maltiness, so crushable which is dangerous since it came it at near 8%. Here's my recipe http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/379265/citra-mosaic-galaxy-ne-ipa

 

[BrunDog]

Got mine into the final keg today. As noted above, I didn't use an intermediate keg for the second dry hop. This sample was straight up morning glass of OJ! Can't wait to see what carbonation and the second dry hops in the keg do! Will report back!

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1472699358.305256.jpg

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

I taste tested mine with moderate levels of carbonation last night. Looks pretty good, smells pretty good. Here are my taste observations.

1. I think I over-did it on the gypsum (I accidentally used a Tablespoon instead of Tea spoon) the bitterness is in the foreground of the taste.
2. Balanced hopiness but falls a bit flat on the fruity notes. I can attribute that to the emergency use of US-05.
3. At 35*F its a little bit one dimensional (Galaxy definitely overpowers the Citra) but when it warms up to around 40*F the other hops come out to play
4. Mouthfeel was not crisp, but again pretty well balanced. I imagine when the carbonation is up to snuff, it might go towards the "Bitey" end of the spectrum. Will find out.

All-in-All its a good beer. Not what I was hoping for, but thats my fault not the recipe. I hit all my numbers with the exception of Post boil/Post chill OG being off by 3 points but that was because I brewed a little bit more than I had to.

So verdict... Will I make it again? Yes. I see everyone raving about this beer and I can taste and see the potential in it. I will hopefully not get DOA yeast the next time and I will not make any mistakes with my water additions. With that, I'm certain when I make this again, it will be even better!

 

[armenianbrewer]

You didn't make a huge mistake! There's nothing wrong with using other hops. Some of the other hops listed and the ones Brau has highlighted may come out more fruity and tropical but there's nothing wrong with using other hops. The beer will just come out different. You may like it!

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

 

[hopbrad]

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

Falconers flight is a good hop blend for the NE style so dont worry. if it were me, id dry hop it with citra. or a combo of citra/columbus to get the tropical dank on the nose and back end.

 

[hopbrad]

or my favorite, mosaic and apollo.

 

[Braufessor]

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

I have always been a pretty big fan of Falconers Flight. I make an all FF amber ale from time to time. It is a "fruitier" blend than say, 7C's. Zythos is pretty good too..... I actually made 3 pale ales at one time and used 1 blend in each of the 3. I think Zythos ended up being my favorite , a bit ahead of FF. 7C's comes off very centennial/cascade heavy.... which is fine, but just not my personal favorite.

 

[lilbova3]

I suppose you're right! Maybe not a huge mistake, poor choice of words but maybe I wont achieve the 'juicy' hop flavors? Might turn to be more muddled and indistinguishable?

I have always been a pretty big fan of Falconers Flight. I make an all FF amber ale from time to time. It is a "fruitier" blend than say, 7C's. Zythos is pretty good too..... I actually made 3 pale ales at one time and used 1 blend in each of the 3. I think Zythos ended up being my favorite , a bit ahead of FF. 7C's comes off very centennial/cascade heavy.... which is fine, but just not my personal favorite.

I don't think it will be muddled and Brau even vouches that FF can be fruity. Take notes on how it tastes and then try other hop combos and start to build a new recipe with different hops and the same grains.

 

[rappinduke]

Pulled the first pint of my latest. Citra, Galaxy and Equinox. I was a little worried of the green pepper rep that Equinox gets and I have to say I'm not getting it. Maybe a tiny bit but that could just be because I'm looking for it. I don't think I would ever go heavy with it but I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a blend.

 

[hopbrad]

Pulled the first pint of my latest. Citra, Galaxy and Equinox. I was a little worried of the green pepper rep that Equinox gets and I have to say I'm not getting it. Maybe a tiny bit but that could just be because I'm looking for it. I don't think I would ever go heavy with it but I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a blend.

da haaa da haaa, da ha ha ha ha haaaa

 

[jjw5015]

All carbed up....so damn good

View attachment 1472779891655.jpg

 

[rappinduke]

da haaa da haaa, da ha ha ha ha haaaa

I'm feeling the groove now pilgrim...

 

[jbedell2]

My most recent batch has been kegged for a few days now, and it's not as amazing as the last one. The aroma is still pretty good, but the finish is a bit harsh and actually feels a little bit sharp in the back of my throat. A friend described it as "prickly."

I tried to make a lower gravity version by reducing each of the base grains by a pound. But my conversion was also low and brew house efficiency was only 53%. I kept my water additions the same as the last batch, including 1tsp of Lactic Acid. I also changed the dry hop schedule a little bit because of what I had on hand.

Here are the specs:
OG 1.057, FG 1.014, ABV 5.6
.75 Warrior @ 60
1/1/1 Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in both Whirlpools
Dryhop 1: 1 oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic @ Day 4
Dryhop 2: 1 oz Mosaic, 2 oz Galaxy @ Day 11
Kegged Day 16 (for some reason there was still a tiny bit of airlock activity)

Water additions:
3g Gypsum
2g Epsom
1g Table Salt
8g CaCl
3g Baking Soda
1tsp Lactic
This was the same water profile as my last batch, which was great.

So, here are some possible explanations for the difference:
1) Too acidic? Maybe the lactic acid was too much, given the lower grain bill, which caused the low conversion and harsh flavor? In retrospect, I should have been less lazy and recalculated the water additions, but I wanted to stick with what worked so well in the last batch.
2) Too young? The airlock activity at Day 16 was weird. Maybe I needed a bigger starter?
3) Too much Galaxy in the second DH? I don't see why this would cause harshness, though.

Interested to hear anyone's thoughts about what could be causing the harsh flavor and throat sharpness.

Thanks!

 

[hezagenius]

@jbedell2

When I keg my versions of this, it always has a harsh taste for about a week. It's usually quite astringent and bitter. I chalk this up to suspended hops and yeast. After chilling, they'll eventually drop out and some will get sucked up into the dip tube. Once you've cleared the loose particles out, I find the beer tastes much better. I do heavy dry hopping and use 1318 yeast. I actually find the beer to be better after a few weeks in the keg.

And this has happened with each version of this beer that I've done (4 so far) regardless of the grainbill or hops used. I've used 1318 in each batch.

 

[rappinduke]

I actually got that throat thing you are talking about the first time I brewed this beer. I used spring water and added 1 tsp of CaCl and 1/2 tsp of gypsum per 5 gal of water. Since switching to RO water I have not had that happen again. The harshness eventually went away over time in that first batch.

 

[Braufessor]

My most recent batch has been kegged for a few days now, and it's not as amazing as the last one. The aroma is still pretty good, but the finish is a bit harsh and actually feels a little bit sharp in the back of my throat. A friend described it as "prickly."

I tried to make a lower gravity version by reducing each of the base grains by a pound. But my conversion was also low and brew house efficiency was only 53%. I kept my water additions the same as the last batch, including 1tsp of Lactic Acid. I also changed the dry hop schedule a little bit because of what I had on hand.

Here are the specs:
OG 1.057, FG 1.014, ABV 5.6
.75 Warrior @ 60
1/1/1 Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in both Whirlpools
Dryhop 1: 1 oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic @ Day 4
Dryhop 2: 1 oz Mosaic, 2 oz Galaxy @ Day 11
Kegged Day 16 (for some reason there was still a tiny bit of airlock activity)

Water additions:
3g Gypsum
2g Epsom
1g Table Salt
8g CaCl
3g Baking Soda
1tsp Lactic
This was the same water profile as my last batch, which was great.

So, here are some possible explanations for the difference:
1) Too acidic? Maybe the lactic acid was too much, given the lower grain bill, which caused the low conversion and harsh flavor? In retrospect, I should have been less lazy and recalculated the water additions, but I wanted to stick with what worked so well in the last batch.
2) Too young? The airlock activity at Day 16 was weird. Maybe I needed a bigger starter?
3) Too much Galaxy in the second DH? I don't see why this would cause harshness, though.

Interested to hear anyone's thoughts about what could be causing the harsh flavor and throat sharpness.

Thanks!

Harsh flavor..... I usually equate this to a few things:
*possibility of over carbonation
*water chemistry
*rough hops (galaxy "can" do this.... not always. But it is a strong hop)

The #1 thing I notice is your water additions.

*There is never a reason to add baking soda AND lactic acid.... they are doing the opposite thing. You should NEVER add baking soda to a pale beer in my opinion.

*How much is "a tsp" of lactic acid???? I generally use 1-3 ml in 5 gallons of mash water. On line calculator suggests 1tsp = 5ml.....

* Were those additions for mash? mash and sparge combined? How many gallons of water did you add those additions to?

*If I was guessing, It seems to me you added a lot of "stuff" to your water, and that could be giving you some issues.

*Was it RO water you started with?

 

[Braufessor]

I actually got that throat thing you are talking about the first time I brewed this beer. I used spring water and added 1 tsp of CaCl and 1/2 tsp of gypsum per 5 gal of water. Since switching to RO water I have not had that happen again. The harshness eventually went away over time in that first batch.

The good thing about RO water is you know what is in it. "Spring Water" can basically be about anything in regard to mineral content.... so, unless you get a print out of the mineral content of spring water, it is really not a good starting point.

 

[jbedell2]

Harsh flavor..... I usually equate this to a few things:
*possibility of over carbonation
*water chemistry
*rough hops (galaxy "can" do this.... not always. But it is a strong hop)

The #1 thing I notice is your water additions.

*There is never a reason to add baking soda AND lactic acid.... they are doing the opposite thing. You should NEVER add baking soda to a pale beer in my opinion.

*How much is "a tsp" of lactic acid???? I generally use 1-3 ml in 5 gallons of mash water. On line calculator suggests 1tsp = 5ml.....

* Were those additions for mash? mash and sparge combined? How many gallons of water did you add those additions to?

*If I was guessing, It seems to me you added a lot of "stuff" to your water, and that could be giving you some issues.

*Was it RO water you started with?

Thanks for this and the other replies. I start with 100% RO water. I admittedly am a novice with respect to water chemistry, so I use the water calc in Brewer's Friend to fiddle around with additions until I get a calculated value close to your original suggestion. I eBIAB with no sparge so the amounts I stated are for 8.8 gallons. I added the baking soda into the equation to get the HCO value close to yours. Maybe that's why the calculator is suggesting so much lactic, because it needs to cancel out the baking soda.

As I mentioned, the calculation I used was for the grain bill I used in the previous batch, which was identical except for an extra 1.5lbs of each of the base grains. I should have recalculated everything, but the last batch was so good I didn't want to change any of the additions.

Here's the water calc report:

Ca+2 86.4
Mg+2 5.9
Na+ 36.5
Cl- 134.1
SO4-2 73.6
HCO 64.124
Alkalinity -13.1
Residual Alkalinity -78.2

Targe mash pH: Add 5.24 ml (~1.0 tsp)
Mash pH *: 5.40

Mash thickness: 2.13 qt/lb
pH Delta from Water: -0.29
effective water residual alkalinity: -16.64 ppm as CaCO3
effective strength of weak acids: 91.09 ppm as CaCO3
* mash prediction is for mash sample cooled to 25 C / 77 F

SO42-/Cl- ratio: 0.5 Very Malty
Total lactic acid as equivalent acidulated malt in grist: 2.5 %

Thanks again. I'm also hoping hezagenius is onto something with the suspended yeast/hops.

 

[Braufessor]

Thanks for this and the other replies. I start with 100% RO water. I admittedly am a novice with respect to water chemistry, so I use the water calc in Brewer's Friend to fiddle around with additions until I get a calculated value close to your original suggestion. I eBIAB with no sparge so the amounts I stated are for 8.8 gallons. I added the baking soda into the equation to get the HCO value close to yours. Maybe that's why the calculator is suggesting so much lactic, because it needs to cancel out the baking soda.

As I mentioned, the calculation I used was for the grain bill I used in the previous batch, which was identical except for an extra 1.5lbs of each of the base grains. I should have recalculated everything, but the last batch was so good I didn't want to change any of the additions.

Here's the water calc report:

Ca+2 86.4
Mg+2 5.9
Na+ 36.5
Cl- 134.1
SO4-2 73.6
HCO 64.124
Alkalinity -13.1
Residual Alkalinity -78.2

Targe mash pH: Add 5.24 ml (~1.0 tsp)
Mash pH *: 5.40

Mash thickness: 2.13 qt/lb
pH Delta from Water: -0.29
effective water residual alkalinity: -16.64 ppm as CaCO3
effective strength of weak acids: 91.09 ppm as CaCO3
* mash prediction is for mash sample cooled to 25 C / 77 F

SO42-/Cl- ratio: 0.5 Very Malty
Total lactic acid as equivalent acidulated malt in grist: 2.5 %

Thanks again. I'm also hoping hezagenius is onto something with the suspended yeast/hops.

Suspended yeast/hop material can make a beer sort of harsh for sure.... so that could be part of it.

My tap water is hard.... so, if I use some of that I have to use lactic acid to offset it. When I use all RO... I do not chase any bicarbonate numbers.

I need to take some time this weekend and make an update post and get it attached to the original post to clarify a few things..... Put that on the "to do" list.

 

[MGM]

I've got one going with a Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy hop bill. I'm going back and forth on whether to just do a second dry hop or if I should use those hops in the keg. I also have an ounce of Cascade cones, but do you all think throwing those in the keg (if I use my Mosaic and Galaxy as 2nd dry hop) will interfere with the hop profiles I'm working with?

 

[armenianbrewer]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1472900462.361083.jpg accidentally measured the hydrometer sample after I had mixed in the priming sugar (so not sure how to adjust it back down to where it actually finished. I take it maybe 1.010, SG was 1.068)

However, I think I overdid it on the dry hopping with this recipe. Sampled tastes very grassy, thick pine and only very slight citrus but hard to distinguish with the significant bite from the all the grass

Will this mellow out or subdue at all?

 

[ViciousFishes]

My most recent batch has been kegged for a few days now, and it's not as amazing as the last one. The aroma is still pretty good, but the finish is a bit harsh and actually feels a little bit sharp in the back of my throat. A friend described it as "prickly."

I tried to make a lower gravity version by reducing each of the base grains by a pound. But my conversion was also low and brew house efficiency was only 53%. I kept my water additions the same as the last batch, including 1tsp of Lactic Acid. I also changed the dry hop schedule a little bit because of what I had on hand.

Here are the specs:
OG 1.057, FG 1.014, ABV 5.6
.75 Warrior @ 60
1/1/1 Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in both Whirlpools
Dryhop 1: 1 oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic @ Day 4
Dryhop 2: 1 oz Mosaic, 2 oz Galaxy @ Day 11
Kegged Day 16 (for some reason there was still a tiny bit of airlock activity)

Water additions:
3g Gypsum
2g Epsom
1g Table Salt
8g CaCl
3g Baking Soda
1tsp Lactic
This was the same water profile as my last batch, which was great.

So, here are some possible explanations for the difference:
1) Too acidic? Maybe the lactic acid was too much, given the lower grain bill, which caused the low conversion and harsh flavor? In retrospect, I should have been less lazy and recalculated the water additions, but I wanted to stick with what worked so well in the last batch.
2) Too young? The airlock activity at Day 16 was weird. Maybe I needed a bigger starter?
3) Too much Galaxy in the second DH? I don't see why this would cause harshness, though.

Interested to hear anyone's thoughts about what could be causing the harsh flavor and throat sharpness.

Thanks!

This may be a stretch, but I n addition to the thoughts on your water, I wonder about bittering with .7oz of Warrior. For this style, I usually bitter to no more than 13 IBUs to balance out the malt and get the rest of my IBUs from a 5 or 10 minute addition. Could that be a source of (some of) your "prickliness"?

 

[brew703]

Looking to brew batch #2 tomorrow.
BIAB
3.5 gal (3 gal in fermenter)
6 gal filtered water (machine at grocery)
Trying to get my water additions--use Bru n Water Pale Ale profile
Added when grains go in.
3 grams gypsum
1.5 gram Epsom
4.2 grams calcium chloride
With these additions, this is what I get:
calcium: 139 target / 82 actual
magnesium: 18 target / 65 actual
sodium: 17.8 target / 7.2 actual
sulfate: 299 target / 100 actual
chloride: 51.4 target / 92.9 actual
bicarbonate: 95.5 target / 14.5 actual

Do I need to make any changes to these to these additions? I've messed around with different amounts but can never seem to get close on all categories.