Noob Starter Volume Question

[Erik_M]

**I just realized that this posted to the wrong forum section! My bad. Can someone help me redirect it?

So I'm getting ready to brew an IPA with OG of 1.064. I'm using White Labs WLP001 yeast. This is my second starter. I did the first one using the following technique and things turned out ok. I want to make sure I'm doing this right, though.

Using Mr. Malty's calculator, I need a starter with a volume of 1.4L. So, I boiled 1.4L of water with 4.3 oz of DME. I did that following the equation of 6oz of DME per 2 quarts of water.

Obviously I lost volume during the boil. I actually ended up at 800mL after a 10 minute or so boil.

So, my question is this: did I do the right thing? The volume of my starter is low compared to the Mr. Malty requirements, right? If I started the boil with a higher volume so I ended at 1.4, doesn't that mess up the gravity of the starter?

I have searched like crazy for an answer to this question to no avail. I appreciate your input as this has been driving me crazy!

--Erik

 

[IvanTheTerribrew]

I'm a bit confused.

Even if you just had 1.4 L of water and boiled for ten minutes you would not see a drop of almost half of the volume.

Secondly, if you added the DME and the yeast, that would add to your total volume. So There's got to be something missing there. Is there something else that happened?

But as for your question: I would have added some water and boiled for a few mins to sterilize before cooling and pitching yeast. If you already pitched then you'll just have to take more care next time


- ISM NRP

 

[Erik_M]

Ivan, I was surprised at the loss amount too. I measured 1.4L, boiled for 10-15 minutes and my final volume is almost exactly 800mL. To be honest, it was a pretty rolling boil.

I began with the DME added to the water and brought the mixture to a boil. The DME was about 3/4 of a cup volume-wise. Let that go for about 13 minutes, ice bathed it and then pitched the vial of yeast. That's it.

 

[flars]

What is the production date of your yeast. I'll plug your numbers into the Brewers Friend calculator.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[tooldudetool]

When making a starter, you should add the DME first, then add water to get to the starter volume. When boiling for 15 minutes you shouldn't lose much liquid at all. Usually most of us boil in an erlenmeyer flask which has a very small opening at the top, minimizing evaporation... maybe you boiled hard in a wide pan? The wider and more open the pan, the more quickly it will evaporate. If you really did boil off that much, yes your gravity will be much higher than it necessarily should be for a starter. It will still be fine I'm sure, but not ideal. In the future you could have a tea kettle of boiling water on the side, and once you see your final volume, just add boiled water until you hit the right volume. Like I said though, usually this isn't an issue for most homebrewers, and I've never had to do it.

 

[Erik_M]

Flars, I'm not sure of the production date. The "best before date" is June 10, 2014. I checked out the lot number on White Labs website and the lot was QC tested on 11/19/13. Thanks.

--Erik

 

[flars]

Flars, I'm not sure of the production date. The "best before date" is June 10, 2014. I checked out the lot number on White Labs website and the lot was QC tested on 11/19/13. Thanks.

--Erik

The numbers I entered in Brewers Friend and calculating for using a stir plate:
OG 1.064
Volume 5.0
Pitch rate 0.75 Ale
Production date 2014/02/10
available cells 78 billion
pitch rate needed 222 billion cells
1.1 liter 1.036 starter
Braukaiser stir plate calculation
4 ounces DME
ending cell count 236 billion cells


I weighed a half cup of extra light DME. It came to just under 3 ounces. Others have reported different weights.

The best way is to use a scale to weigh out the DME.

I made some assumptions for batch size and use of a stir plate. Let me know if these are off.

 

[IvanTheTerribrew]

Erik, are you using an Erlenmeyer flask to do this or are you using a regular pot to boil? I would suggest try duplicating this again. In the same manner try to boil some water without DME for 10-15 min, let it cool naturally(so you don't waste ice) and see how much you lose. If you do consistently lose X % of your water in the boil at least you can calculate that for future starters.


- ISM NRP

 

[Erik_M]

Thanks you guys for all the helpful advice. Here is what I would up doing:

Since the starter was only at about 800mL, I let that go for about 24 hours, until the activity settled down and it was beginning to clear up. I refrigerated it overnight and then took it out in the morning. As that came to room temp, I made another DME starter, this time with about 1.6L water in my pot, this time with the lid on. Although I do have an Erlenmeyer, something about putting it right on the gas stove makes me cringe. So, anyway once that mini-wort cooled, I added it to the flask and I was off to the races. On the second go around, the yeast really went nuts, nearly blowing off the foil top I had made.

Right now, the beer is fermenting in the closet after a successful brew day. I brewed on Sunday. In the past, when I did not use a starter, the activity had pretty much ended by now (two days or so after brewing). I am hopeful that the continued activity is a sign that the yeast is properly attenuating (I think that is the term here). Early attenuating would lead to a beer with a sweet taste from the residual sugar that had not fermented properly due to underpitching. That sweetness is the reason that I went down this starter road in the first place, so hopefully that is a problem solved.

Again, thanks everyone for the help. I'm a pretty new brewer and I'm really grateful that I have a friendly place to turn with questions.

--Erik

 

[flars]

Improvement of each batch brewed is the home brewing satisfaction experience.