Noob question re: flavoring

[Monte]

New brewer here with a question on added flavorings:

So, if I wanted to, say, add a bit of bourbon flavoring to a brew, can it be accomplished with something as simple as adding a bit of bourbon to the finished beer prior to bottling (seeing that the bourbon itself is already fermented/distilled)?

I assume also that this is a different request than talking about something like a bourbon BARREL aging, where I may want to impart the flavors of the oak, etc. and that would require either barrel aging or soaking of wood cubes/chips in the secondary.

If this is possilbe (adding bourbon directly to the finished batch before bottling), how do I calculate the correct amount? I've seen instances online of people mentioning that they've added one pint for a 5 gallon batch, but not sure how that was arrived at.

Also, would this affect the amount of priming sugar used in preparation for bottling?

Any thoughts are welcome. By the way, the reason I was asking about adding pre-bottling and not in the secondary is that I wanted to experiment a bit with a subset of a batch. I have an oatmeal stout in primary now, and didn't want to experiment by affecting the entire batch, but thinking maybe I could try adding bourbon to 1/4 of the batch during bottling and see how it turned out. Bad idea?

 

[JoeBronco]

Adding whiskey and Bourbon is common in porter and stouts. I add bourbon to almost all my porters and do very well with it. The key it to let it age and not bring the abv to high as to kill the yeast. I normally add to taste and will pour about 4 cups into a 5 gallon batch. I also age for over a year and most of the alcohol "Bite" falls out and blends well. Try to keep your beer abv under the recommended yeasts health abv. In other words if your yeast can survive up to 15% abv try to keep at or around 10%-12%. It will carb up just fine, but may take a little longer.

Use the Pearson's square to tell you how much to add based on ABV.
Pearson's Square

If you want to add that oaky flavor, Put oak chips in the bourbon and let it sit for a few weeks (the longer the better) and add to secondary or just before bottling. I dont recommend adding a little to every bottle as it will be VERY hard to keep it consistent throughout and very time consuming. Just add to the bottling bucket. I like to throw a few vanilla beans in to add to the bourbon flavor without the abv bite.

 

[JoeBronco]

This is how i do it:

Before i even brew i take a Bourbon/whiskey bottle.

....Add desired amount of booze (normally 3-4 cups)
....Add 1-2oz White oak cubes
....Add 2 Bourbon Vanilla beans (Madagascar beans if i can find them)
....Add 2 oz of PURE ORGANIC vanilla extract
....Let sit about 2-weeks

Ferment out beer (2 more weeks)
rack to secondary (i use a stainless steel secondary)
add mix to beer (oak chips, beans and all)
Let sit in secondary tasting once every few days.

Let the beer tell you when its done. Remember that the "bite" and Bourbon will blend and mellow with time. I normally let the oak tell me when to pull the beer out. On average its about another 10 days on secondary but up to a few months depending on what kind of character your looking to pull out of the oak and bourbon.

 

[yancydc]

As to amount - it's to taste, and also depends on how strong your base beer is. So your idea to only add bourbon to a portion is a good one. Why not scale down your addition for different portions even, so you know exactly what you want next time? As an example, add 4-12 oz to half the batch, bottle half of that, then add some more (keeping scaling in mind)?

I made a chocolate stout last year and added bourbon at bottling. I used a lot less than Joe, above, only about 9 oz (1 cup, then I finished up the bottle). I thought this was the perfect amount for what I was going for, but I didn't want to overpower the chocolate. But again, it's completely to taste.

 

[JoeBronco]

As to amount - it's to taste, and also depends on how strong your base beer is. So your idea to only add bourbon to a portion is a good one. Why not scale down your addition for different portions even, so you know exactly what you want next time? As an example, add 4-12 oz to half the batch, bottle half of that, then add some more (keeping scaling in mind)?

I made a chocolate stout last year and added bourbon at bottling. I used a lot less than Joe, above, only about 9 oz (1 cup, then I finished up the bottle). I thought this was the perfect amount for what I was going for, but I didn't want to overpower the chocolate. But again, it's completely to taste.

I agree. Its also really all about what beer style your going for. What flavors your going for. If your doing a Bourbon Porter then you want a bit of the caramels, oak, raisins and dryness to come through. But if your going with more of a chocolate as yancydc did, 1 cup is plenty. I am still an advocate of adding whole bourbon vanilla beans as it brings an entirely different element to the bourbon and seems to help it blend a bit better.

 

[Monte]

Fantastic recommendations, thank you guys for taking the time to respond. I will keep these tips in mind as I continue to experiment.

Sounds like I can experiment a little with adding boubon directly during bottling of the oatmeal stout (which is a Samuel Smith clone) and adjust for various scaling portions.

I am also a huge fan of porters, so I'm sure one of my next 2-3 brews will be a porter; perhaps now is the time to start the aging process on the bourbon/wood/vanilla elements.
--And one further question on that--you mentioned that you're using stainless secondary, as am I--do you put the oak chips in a hop bag when in the secondary, or just dump it all in? I was thinking I would dump in the liquid (bourbon), but suspend the oak chips/ vanilla beans in a nylon mesh bag in the secondary using fishing line, so that it is fully immersed, but wouldn't interfere with/clog either the dump valve or racking arm.

 

[Homercidal]

Adding bourbon without a barrel is a good way to add just bourbon flavor without the oak. I prefer the oak, myself, but I've been known to add a capful or two of bourbon straight to the glass before pouring a stout.

I've added a cup of bourbon and oak chips to a 5 gallon batch and could barely taste it. The 3-4 cups sounds about right IMO.

 

[JoeBronco]

Fantastic recommendations, thank you guys for taking the time to respond. I will keep these tips in mind as I continue to experiment.

Sounds like I can experiment a little with adding boubon directly during bottling of the oatmeal stout (which is a Samuel Smith clone) and adjust for various scaling portions.

I am also a huge fan of porters, so I'm sure one of my next 2-3 brews will be a porter; perhaps now is the time to start the aging process on the bourbon/wood/vanilla elements.
--And one further question on that--you mentioned that you're using stainless secondary, as am I--do you put the oak chips in a hop bag when in the secondary, or just dump it all in? I was thinking I would dump in the liquid (bourbon), but suspend the oak chips/ vanilla beans in a nylon mesh bag in the secondary using fishing line, so that it is fully immersed, but wouldn't interfere with/clog either the dump valve or racking arm.

You will find that after two weeks most of the oak chips have fallen to the bottom of the bottle/jar that you are ageing in. When you rack over to your bottleing line (or bucket) all the oak chips and bean pods will be at the bottom of the fermenter. Trust me, they will be fully immersed. They are large enough that they will not get caught up in a racking cane (if you have the little black guard on it) and the yeast/sediment/trub that has fallen out of suspension will work as a sucksion cup and hold everything on the bottom in place.

 

[JoeBronco]

I would sugget you look into Denny Conns Porter recipie. Its a great Porter and easy to brew. here is another one if your doing all grain that i posted up.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f126/ag-oaked-bv-porter-silver-ca-bjcp-comp-237593/

 

[wfowlks]

I know my LHBS has bourbon flavor extract
http://stores.mdhb.com/-strse-1045/BOURBON-WHISKEY-for-home/Detail.bok

 

[JoeBronco]

I know my LHBS has bourbon flavor extract
http://stores.mdhb.com/-strse-1045/BOURBON-WHISKEY-for-home/Detail.bok

That is for adding to flavorless spirits to make a bourbon "style" booze. Basically, its for distillers to add to pure grain to make a quick batch of bourbon "style" hooch when they dont want to age for years on oak. They should have a few other flavors as well, such as: Rum, brandy, scotch and diffrent fruits. I guess im a bit of a purest when it comes to whiskey/bourbon/scotch and dont like the "quick" way around as a lesser product comes from it.

On the flip side - It May work for beer, may be a great experiment. In fact that may even be what professional brewers use to cut down on cost. But i trust the real thing as it blends better and ages gracefully. It also helps up the ABV

 

[Draken]

There is a KBBA clone recipe around here somewhere that has some good suggestions and a nice recipe for an oaked beer.

 

[Monte]

Thanks again.

Unfortunately I haven't stepped up to all grain yet--hopefully at some point this summer--so for now I'm stuck with either extract or partial mash. I was looking at getting or cloning the recipes of either Northern Brewer's Bourbon Barrel Porter kit--heard some really positive things about it--but would scrap their oak regimen in favor of something like you described above. Also heard great things about the Alaskan Smoked Porter; I think Austin Homebrew Supply carries that. I'll continue looking and see if I can find a porter or smoked porter recipe that I like better in extract or partial mash form.

In researching a bit more on the OG range (usually around 1.065) and recommended yeast strains (alcohol tolerance of around 12%) for these brews, I see lots of people arguing for and against 16oz vs. 20oz of bourbon with a 5 gallon batch, arguing that it's too much/too little/just right. I figure maybe I'll split the difference and go with 18oz (2.25 cups) for my first run, and add the 2 bourbon vanilla beans and 2oz each of organic extract and oak wood cubes (my LHBS carries primarily american oak, medium toast). I've also read a lot about people experimenting with honey or maple as an additional ingredient, but I feel like that might impart too much sweetness for my taste. I'd rather a subtle bourbon taste than a masked one. Also, I know it probably doesn't make sense to use good bourbon, but I have been dying to infuse the flavors of my favorite bourbon (Benjamin Prichard's Double-Barrel Bourbon Whiskey) into a brew. For some reason, that bourbon has a taste to me unlike any other bourbon, and I feel like it would be killer in a porter. Hey, why not, I'm drinking it either way, right? This way I can enjoy it over a number of cases!

 

[JoeBronco]

The Denny conn's Recipe is also available in partial mash... Trust me, its a good one. Remember you can always add champagne yeast when you bottle if you go above 12%abv. 2.25 cups are are a good starting point. If you want more, add more at bottling.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f126/bourbon-vanilla-porter-ag-30185/

 

[wfowlks]

On a side note, smoking your steeping grains over hickory or oak, the night before you brew will give you a strong oak/hickory flavor. That's what I did with my scotch ale, if you didnt want to go the extract/flavoring.

 

[Monte]

The Denny conn's Recipe is also available in partial mash... Trust me, its a good one. Remember you can always add champagne yeast when you bottle if you go above 12%abv. 2.25 cups are are a good starting point. If you want more, add more at bottling.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f126/bourbon-vanilla-porter-ag-30185/

Ah, didn't scroll through enough pages the first time. Seems there are a couple of partial mash versions and an extract version. Have you tried both the 1.25# and 0.5lb variants of the chocolate malt? Preference?

 

[JoeBronco]

Ah, didn't scroll through enough pages the first time. Seems there are a couple of partial mash versions and an extract version. Have you tried both the 1.25# and 0.5lb variants of the chocolate malt? Preference?

I have done 1.25, 1 and the .5lbs of chocolate. I have found the 1lbs is just a hair too much chocolate at first but if you age for more than 6 months it mellows out and is just right. If your more into instant gratification. .75 or .5 is better.

 

[yancydc]

Thanks again.
Also, I know it probably doesn't make sense to use good bourbon, but I have been dying to infuse the flavors of my favorite bourbon (Benjamin Prichard's Double-Barrel Bourbon Whiskey) into a brew. For some reason, that bourbon has a taste to me unlike any other bourbon, and I feel like it would be killer in a porter. Hey, why not, I'm drinking it either way, right? This way I can enjoy it over a number of cases!

Of course it makes sense! Putting crappy booze into the beer will only ensure that the crappy flavors are spread out over those couple cases. You want the flavors to blend nicely, and if there's something you like in one particular bourbon, then definitely put it in. You picked a good one, my uncle brought some of that to a party and it went real quick.

 

[Draken]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/my-kentucky-bourbon-barrel-ale-attempt-281790/


This is an extract brew. No kit involved tweak as you see fit.