Noob Looking to Get started

[Blake_Smash]

Hey guys, So I have been researching starter brew kits for about 2 weeks and reading way to many posts on these forums just to get ideas on what I REALLY need to get started.

My first question,

Midwest Supplies seems to have the best deals going as far as equipment is concerned. I have been comparing a few of their kits along with reviews and recommendations of other brewers on the forums.

Which starter Kit is really the better deal for someone who has never brewed their own batch before (have assisted friends but never done my own)?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing-starter-plus-kit.html
OR
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing-intermediate-plus-kit.html

My second question,

What other parts do I need?

I have heard people say Wort Chillers are a must, others who say you don't need anything more then what you get in a kit for your first batch, and more who swear by making their own DIY equipment from the forums.

and my final question,

I live in Florida so it is generally hot down here. Am I going to need to make a fermentation chamber or a "Keezer" just to brew effectively?


I hope I did not put this in the wrong spot, if I did my mistake. Ill move it to where it needs to be.

Thanks in advance for all the help with my questions.

 

[twistr25]

I would say the first kit is way more than enough. They have a promotion on there right now to get most of the starter kit plus a free recipe kit. You'd have to buy the pot and bottles separate, but if you have the money to do it all now, I suppose that's just as good.

A wort chiller is certainly nice to have, but a bath tub with some frozen water bottles is just fine as well.

A swamp cooler will be your best friend for Florida. A $5 rope bucket from Walmart and some more frozen water bottles and your good to go. Welcome and don't hesitate to ask a question, we were all there at one point.

 

[J187]

Agree with Twist... first kit looks good. You absolutely do not need a chiller as a beginner, and would probably be better off spending that money elsewhere to start. You'll be doing partial boils in that pot and you can easily chill that in an ice bath.

Swamp cooler should work great for you - I use a large bin from Target full of water and I add 3 or 4 frozen one liter bottles every 10 hours or so.

The people who are saying wort chillers are a must are doing full wort boils and cannot cool down 5+ gallons of wort in an ice bath the way partial boilers are chilling 2-3 gallons.

 

[Waynep005]

I word suggest saving beer bottles and having friends do the same. They really jack up the cost of shipping on your orders

 

[unionrdr]

I have to agree that the $180 starter plus kit is the better value of the two. That is if you don't have a 5 gallon (20qt) kettle in the house. bottles are easy enough to scrounge one way or another. But if you have the money & want it all right now,get the starter plus kit I say. Shipping weight is also a concern,however. bottles & glass carboys will cost you the further from them they have to ship it. That was another reason I kept an eye out for local sales on SS kettles,& started saving pop top bottles right away. Even though my Cooper's Micro brew kit came with 30/25oz PET bottles. I got the four nested/polished SS kettles with lids & steamer trays for some $25 brand new. Still in use today,going on 3 years later. Everything from AE to PB/PM BIAB. So saving money on shipping & getting some things local on sale,or craigslist,etc can save some real money. It's up to you in the end,though.

 

[flars]

You live in Florida. Is your tap water warm? If it is a wort chiller will not be very effective. A swamp cooler is your best bet. Add a fan to the setup and it will be more effective. Add an undrilled stopper for the carboy to seal it when not in use. In my opinion Star San is the most effective sanitizer. Add a Thermostrip for the outside of your fermentor to monitor the wort temp. Do not use the gallon markings on the buckets. They are not accurate. Happy brewing.

 

[J187]

Yea, Union and the other's make a good point. You might be better off going for something like the brewer's best kit for $65 and adding an inexpensive brew pot. I got a 5 gallon SS brew pot for like $40 locally. That way, you'd have more flexibility selecting your first recipe or kit, and selecting your own pot. You wouldn't get the carboy, but for 1. That carboy isn't really necessary in that kit, and 2. It's a 5 gallon carboy, which is going to be too small to do a 5 gallon batch in primary.

 

[Starbug]

I'm trying to see the difference between the two but I'm only seeing the extra carboy which I agree, I'd rather have 6 gallon carboys so i can primary in them, and personally after having one shatter on me, albeit mostly due to improper use of a handle and inexperience, I wholeheartedly prefer plastic now but I use both due to limited chamber space. (by the way, while I'm mentioning it - Rule #1: Safety first, can replace equipment, can even replace brew, cannot replace the brewer.)

I live in Arizona and am about 10 brews in, the heat has been an interesting challenge, we took care of that at first by using wet towels with a fan on them and that worked fairly well for starting up. After a few months we'd saved up and bought an old refurbished freezer locally and got a Johnson temperature control unit for it, it works like a chaaarm, but now i want another one lol.

Next month I'm planning on buying a wort chiller, I certainly wouldn't say its a must have for starting but after doing this just a little bit, it's definitely something I wanna try. It seems almost just as expensive nowadays to build your own chiller as buying one, and for the money you'd save you have to be careful bending the pipe and everything so I think just paying the extra 10 bucks or so for the premade would be better for me. As for living in a hot climate and the tap being warm, I'm gonna try coiling a hose through a long cooler of ice/water as a kind of pre-chiller. I figure even the semi warm tap coming out would help cool it down from boiling temp enough to have an ice bath in the sink finish it off quick, and hoping the pre-chill helps, if not, I'll have it in the winter months when the tap's cold again.

and I also agree you should look at the individual rundown and get a good cheap pot locally. I haven't made the buy yet but I found some really really nice Tamale pots at the local Mexican carneceria for a very reasonable price. Planning on getting one and maybe self-installing thermometer and spigot in the future.

 

[Blake_Smash]

Thank you guys for all the info. I see what you mean about the bottles and the pot. Those are things I can definitely find around here so it is probably a good idea to do the versions of those kits without bottles and a pot.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing-starter-kit.html
OR
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing-intermediate-kit-w-two-5-gallon-glass-carboys.html

But it sounds like i missed something, the 5 gallon carboys or better bottles are to small to do primaries in? Is that because there is no headspace for the CO2 to escape?

If thats the case should I be looking at a starter kit with no better bottle or carboy and just pony up the money to get a bigger one and primary in it?

As for the tap water, yea its pretty warm down here. I live in south florida right now but may be making the move up to north florida next year. So i guess the wort chiller is out.

Since Ill be ice bathing the wort what kind of thermometer do you guys recommend. If there is any difference. I have heard to either get one the clips onto the pot, or to get a floating one to put in the wort.

I have heard horror stories about swamp coolers. That they are ineffective and unreliable. But it sounds like my only option for fermenting. (tight budget atm) Is there anything else I should know about the construction of them, or just water ice fans towels and rotation?

Thank you all for being so helpful, I feel like a part of the community already

 

[mcangeli]

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing-starter-kit-w-plastic-carboy.html

go with that one. Primary in the bucket (with out the spigot) then if you need to secondary rack it to the plastic bottle....

Right now if you buy that one and use the code Headstart you get a recipe kit with it...

 

[Cape Brewing]

sorry... this might be a little off the direct line of your questions but... for any "new brewer".. I have one peice of advice I really believe in and that is... buy Palmer's "How To Brew" and read it.

Give it a really quick read before you even make your first batch.

Make your first batch...

and then give it a really quick read again.

Make your second batch... and skim it again.

I think it is a fantastic guidebook for brewing in general but I also think a lot of new brewers don't understand much of it until they've got a little bit of hands on experience first. The more experience you get, the more the book will make sense and the more the book makes sense, the DRAMATICALLY more solid of a base of knowledge you'll have as you get into the hobby.

It's not the sexiest suggestion but I honestly think a couple hours of reading ahead of time (you don't have to read the thing cover to cover and take notes or anything)... but those couple of hours will make everything else make much more sense as you're doing it. Then the next time you skim the book, you'll say, "Ohhhhhh ok... that makes perfect sense".

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

sorry... this might be a little off the direct line of your questions but... for any "new brewer".. I have one peice of advice I really believe in and that is... buy Palmer's "How To Brew" and read it.

Give it a really quick read before you even make your first batch.

Make your first batch...

and then give it a really quick read again.

Make your second batch... and skim it again.

I think it is a fantastic guidebook for brewing in general but I also think a lot of new brewers don't understand much of it until they've got a little bit of hands on experience first. The more experience you get, the more the book will make sense and the more the book makes sense, the DRAMATICALLY more solid of a base of knowledge you'll have as you get into the hobby.

It's not the sexiest suggestion but I honestly think a couple hours of reading ahead of time (you don't have to read the thing cover to cover and take notes or anything)... but those couple of hours will make everything else make much more sense as you're doing it. Then the next time you skim the book, you'll say, "Ohhhhhh ok... that makes perfect sense".

Plus one point eight million. Definitely get your feet wet with a straightforward kit, but read read read. HTB is a great start, but don't stop there, there are thousands of good resources for the home brewer to read. One of them is these here forums, but there are tons of great books and mags that will help you become a better brewer.

 

[J187]

Thank you guys for all the info. I see what you mean about the bottles and the pot. Those are things I can definitely find around here so it is probably a good idea to do the versions of those kits without bottles and a pot.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing-starter-kit.html
OR
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing-intermediate-kit-w-two-5-gallon-glass-carboys.html

But it sounds like i missed something, the 5 gallon carboys or better bottles are to small to do primaries in? Is that because there is no headspace for the CO2 to escape?

If thats the case should I be looking at a starter kit with no better bottle or carboy and just pony up the money to get a bigger one and primary in it?

As for the tap water, yea its pretty warm down here. I live in south florida right now but may be making the move up to north florida next year. So i guess the wort chiller is out.

Since Ill be ice bathing the wort what kind of thermometer do you guys recommend. If there is any difference. I have heard to either get one the clips onto the pot, or to get a floating one to put in the wort.

I have heard horror stories about swamp coolers. That they are ineffective and unreliable. But it sounds like my only option for fermenting. (tight budget atm) Is there anything else I should know about the construction of them, or just water ice fans towels and rotation?

Thank you all for being so helpful, I feel like a part of the community already

You didn't miss a thing! You got it. A 5 gallon carboy has no headspace for krausen and would limit you to around a 4 gallon batch size or simply using it for secondary when krausen and CO2 isn't as big a concern. Personally, I'd advise you to start out with buckets anyway. they are safer, lighter and easier to deal with at first, and easier to clean. The buckets work just as well and many seasoned brewers, myself included, prefer buckets to heavy, cumbersome glass carboys in general. At least start with buckets and see if you dislike it would be my suggestion.

Swamp coolers are not unreliable at all. They are very effective. In order for something to change temperature and gravitate toward the ambient temperature, it's entire thermal mass needs to change. For a 5 gallon batch in a bucket, that mass is 5 gallons of liquid. However, increase that mass a good deal, and it takes A LOT longer for the environmental temp to change the temp of the mass - think a puddle vs a swimming pool... Sticking your fermenter in a large bin with say, 20 gallons of water, increases the thermal mass by 5 times. Anything that touches in good contact the wort, even through the bucket, will increase the total thermal mass. Now, the garage or basement air will have to change 25 gallons in order to effect the temp. Now, add a little ice - a few 1 liter bottles of water frozen, and you can chill that mass down to 68 with ease, which it will want to stay. I have 8 frozen 1 liters. 4 are in my swamp cooler and 4 in the freezer, when I wake up in the morning or come home from work, I swap them. It's been 100 deg plus here over the passed couple weeks, my Hefe has been sitting at 68 solid. In fact, I have a temp controlled aquirium heater sitting in the swamp as well set to 68 just incase the ice bath brings it lower. It is PINNED at 68 and even if I missed a changing of the bottles, it wouldn't change.

sorry... this might be a little off the direct line of your questions but... for any "new brewer".. I have one peice of advice I really believe in and that is... buy Palmer's "How To Brew" and read it.

Give it a really quick read before you even make your first batch.

Make your first batch...

and then give it a really quick read again.

Make your second batch... and skim it again.

I think it is a fantastic guidebook for brewing in general but I also think a lot of new brewers don't understand much of it until they've got a little bit of hands on experience first. The more experience you get, the more the book will make sense and the more the book makes sense, the DRAMATICALLY more solid of a base of knowledge you'll have as you get into the hobby.

It's not the sexiest suggestion but I honestly think a couple hours of reading ahead of time (you don't have to read the thing cover to cover and take notes or anything)... but those couple of hours will make everything else make much more sense as you're doing it. Then the next time you skim the book, you'll say, "Ohhhhhh ok... that makes perfect sense".

This is outstanding advice. Maybe the best advice in the thread.

 

[kh54s10]

I think you can part those kits out and save a lot of $$. Get all your friends to give you their empty bottles (crimp on, not twist off caps). For extract you can get a 20 qt pot at a grocery store for $20. I would use buckets or Better Bottles for fermentation and do not get any 5 gallon fermenters especially glass! Glass, IMO is just too dangerous for any perceived value. You do not need to do a secondary fermentation - hence no need for a 5 gallon vessel. I have one from my first kit and rarely use it!

Read a lot of what is on this site. Then look at the parts list of those kits and see if you can get only what you need separately. I bet you can save $$. That said, I orderen Northern Brewer's Deluxe Kit with Better Bottles when I started and use most of the equipment still (except the 5 gallon Better Bottle.)

 

[glick]

When I first started out I weighed kit prices against parting out. Parting out was much cheaper for me. I already had a kettle, I purchased 5 gallon food safe buckets from lowes, and all of the other essentials for extract at the time (which are not many) from my lhbs for a reasonable price. With extract brewing you really don't need much more then a pot to boil in, a vessel to ferment in, air lock, bottles, caps, capper, sanitizer, hydrometer, and thermometer. Bottles you can buy prefilled, you can do 2.5-3 gallon batches in 5 gallon food grade buckets from Lowes ($5), leaving the capper and pot as the largest expenses.

As a side note... I am much more invested now!!

 

[hikemor]

WRT pre-filled bottles, I have found that Sam Adams longnecks and Sierra Nevada semi-stubbies recap well. I have had problems recapping St. Pauli Girl and, especially, Pilsner Urquell bottles. Probabaly due to some slight difference in dimensions.

 

[Demus]

I think this thread shows there are as many ways to brew as there are brewers. You really, really need to start with a decent book like how to brew, or everything Homebrew by Drew Beechum. I wouldn't even buy any gear until you do. Many of your questions can only be answered by you, since there are so many options. I too am a Florida brewer and can say chillers are absolutely still a valuable tool, though less effective with our warmer tap water. One of the best Florida brewing tips is to brew Belgians. Belgian strains of yeast can ferment at much higher temperatures without off flavors, in fact most taste BETTER fermented warm. Baking in your garage will certainly cause problems, but any air conditioned space should do.
Bottom line, this forum is a great resource but you still need a basic foundation of understanding. No piece of equipment is as important as a good Homebrew book...

 

[Blake_Smash]

hey guys, thank you all for the feedback. I found how to brew online at howtobrew.com and have been reading it bit by bit. Definitely will finish it before I take any additional steps.

Looks like my set up will be something like the starter kit (possibly with parts from around where I live if i can part it cheaper) a large tub from walmart or target for a swamp cooler, and ill chill it down with iced liter bottles of water and hit it from opposite corners with fans.

Should I look at an aquarium heater to make sure the temp doesn't go to low or to high or just get one of those temp strips and stick it on the bucket?

I did not know about Belgians fermenting at a higher temp so thanks for that.

I really appreciate all the help and not being made to feel stupid for my lack of knowledge. happy brewing everyone.

 

[unionrdr]

Hey,we were all in your position at one time or another. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask...

 

[ComcastWineRookie]

sorry... this might be a little off the direct line of your questions but... for any "new brewer".. I have one peice of advice I really believe in and that is... buy Palmer's "How To Brew" and read it.

Give it a really quick read before you even make your first batch.

Make your first batch...

and then give it a really quick read again.

Make your second batch... and skim it again.

I think it is a fantastic guidebook for brewing in general but I also think a lot of new brewers don't understand much of it until they've got a little bit of hands on experience first. The more experience you get, the more the book will make sense and the more the book makes sense, the DRAMATICALLY more solid of a base of knowledge you'll have as you get into the hobby.

It's not the sexiest suggestion but I honestly think a couple hours of reading ahead of time (you don't have to read the thing cover to cover and take notes or anything)... but those couple of hours will make everything else make much more sense as you're doing it. Then the next time you skim the book, you'll say, "Ohhhhhh ok... that makes perfect sense".

and stay away from oxyclean

 

[LovesIPA]

and stay away from oxyclean

Why? Oxyclean is a fantastic cleaner and pretty widely used in homebrewing.

 

[ComcastWineRookie]

inside joke...if you do use it, make sure you completely flush it out of your system