Non-Steepable Grains with Extract Brewing

[mrgrimm101]

I'm working on an IPA recipe and I want to try and replicate some of the grains that I've seen in similar IPAs that I like. However, I notice that even though it's an extract recipe, it lists grains that must be mashed.

The recipe uses DME and some Crystal 40, however, I want to add some melanoidin and maybe a little carafoam and/or munich. I know that steeping these malts will do nothing. However, the guy at my LHBS told me that if I included a small amount of pale malt (I used 6-row before) and it would help convert the starches in the non-steepable malts.

My question is: is this even worth it? Would I still get some of the sugars from these grains, or only color? Should I just stick with crystal malts and DME?

 

[jtratcliff]

It's called a partial mash and people do it all the time...

 

[mrgrimm101]

Ok that's what I thought..I guess I just wanted confirmation that that's how it works..

 

[jtratcliff]

The Munich might have enough diastatic power to convert the rest but a handful of 2-row or 6-row wouldn't hurt.

Try to keep your mash temps in the 150ish area. Lower for dry, higher for malty. Crush very fine and a half hour should be plenty to get full conversion...

Don't forget to account for the volume of your PM wort in your total boil volume...

 

[mrgrimm101]

Could I just get all the grains gathered in muslin bags and steep at 150 for 30-45 min, like a standard steep? The only time I've tried a partial mash, that's what I did. I got my kettle to 150, then I removed it from the heat and put in the grain bag and put the lid on. It stayed right at about 150 for 45 minutes.

 

[kombat]

You can steep Carafoam, but the Melanoidin and Munich do indeed have to be mashed. As described above, you can do a partial mash and rely on the LME/DME for the bulk of the fermentables.

 

[jtratcliff]

Yup, that should do it.

BTW if you get a bigger bag, more grain, and ditch the extract, the you will have done all grain (AG) brew in a bag (BIAB)... It really is that easy to go AG

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

BTW, here is a list of all grains and info on which do/don't need to be mashed http://beersmith.com/grain-list/

 

[mrgrimm101]

Could I do that in my 5 gallon kettle?

I've got a 48qt cooler MLT about 80% complete. Final build and testing will happen this weekend. But I was reading that I would need a larger kettle to do full boils with all grain, so I was afraid I would have to get a 10 gallon kettle before I go all grain.

Would I be able to brew 5 gallons using my cooler and boiling around 4 gallons of water (like I currently do with extract) and then topping up to 5 gallons after I transfer to primary?

Also, I do have a big mesh bag that will work for a 5 gallon kettle. It's not an actual BIAB bag, but it's a still a big mesh bag..

 

[mrgrimm101]

BTW, here is a list of all grains and info on which do/don't need to be mashed http://beersmith.com/grain-list/

Yes I am aware of this, I just was curious the best method for performing a partial mash. Specifically, how does it differ from just plain steeping?

 

[jtratcliff]

Yup, that should do it.

BTW if you get a bigger bag, more grain, and ditch the extract, the you will have done all grain (AG) brew in a bag (BIAB)... It really is that easy to go AG

 

[RM-MN]

Could I do that in my 5 gallon kettle?

I've got a 48qt cooler MLT about 80% complete. Final build and testing will happen this weekend. But I was reading that I would need a larger kettle to do full boils with all grain, so I was afraid I would have to get a 10 gallon kettle before I go all grain.

Would I be able to brew 5 gallons using my cooler and boiling around 4 gallons of water (like I currently do with extract) and then topping up to 5 gallons after I transfer to primary?

Also, I do have a big mesh bag that will work for a 5 gallon kettle. It's not an actual BIAB bag, but it's a still a big mesh bag..

I don't know if you can or not but I've done about 30 half size batches (2 1/2 gallons each) BIAB in my 5 gallon pot. I find that I'm a little tight on space if I go for full volume/no sparge so I start with a little less water and then dump some more over the bag of grains after I have them out of the pot to make up the amount I need when I start the boil.

 

[schokie]

Yes I am aware of this, I just was curious the best method for performing a partial mash. Specifically, how does it differ from just plain steeping?

It's not any different. Mashing is just steeping for 60 mins instead of 30. I've even heard from some people who mash for 15-20 mins, so there's actually zero difference. Your temperature plays a larger role, but that's about it. But for your first time, just do 60 mins at 150F like others suggested.

For the grains you're using you won't get many gravity points. I'd assume about 20 points per pound per gallon. So for a 5 gal batch, you'll get .004 additional OG points for each pound of speciality grain. If you use more of the 2-row base grain (3-4) pounds or so, then that will make a larger difference in your gravity. But if you're just using a handful to ensure conversion, I wouldn't worry about it.

Generally for base malts you're looking at 36-38 points per pound per gallon. The math is the same as above.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's not any different. Mashing is just steeping for 60 mins instead of 30. I've even heard from some people who mash for 15-20 mins, so there's actually zero difference. Your temperature plays a larger role, but that's about it. But for your first time, just do 60 mins at 150F like others suggested.

Sort of, but...

Saying "zero difference" is a little misleading. As you followed up with, temperature plays a larger role and it's not trivial. You can steep in the low 100F, or 170F, or over 190F (oops) and still sucessfully extract flavor and color for a steep. Mashing does require holding at 145 to about 160F for conversion to happen.

Not mentioned yet is that you don't want to put a pound or two of grain into 3 gallons or more water. It's too dilute and your pH can swing up too high. Limit your water to about 1/2 gallon per pound.

 

[schokie]

You're absolutely right. I was intentionally over-simplifying to make the point that mashing grains is no more complicated than steeping grains. It just requires a greater attention to detail.

All your advice is spot on.