No Oxygen - How to bottle properly. Ultra sonic bottling!

[bwible]

Yes, but that foam would include air because you agitated the liquid with the air from the head space. That's actually what you don't want. You want the bubbles to form just because of the released co2 from solution!

Priming sugar calculators take co2 in solution into account. If you release some of the co2 that is in solution would you slightly adjust your amount of priming sugar? I’m guessing you would want just a little more. Like if you were aiming for 2.5 volumes using this method, calculate sugar for 2.6 or 2.7 to get the same carbnation? Or are you finding its negligible?

 

[mac_1103]

i would think the co2 in the beer would be minimal as it all escapes.

If the beer is at 20C/68F at the end of fermentation there will be 0.86 volumes* of CO2. More at lower temps, less at higher.

*edit - that is at 1 atm; no spunding or other added pressure

 

[Miraculix]

Priming sugar calculators take co2 in solution into account. If you release some of the co2 that is in solution would you slightly adjust your amount of priming sugar? I’m guessing you would want just a little more. Like if you were aiming for 2.5 volumes using this method, calculate sugar for 2.6 or 2.7 to get the same carbnation? Or are you finding its negligible?

Technically, you are correct. However, real life implications of this effect are negligible, if you ask me. The difference is very small.

 

[mac_1103]

Or are you finding its negligible?

The only CO2 that is actually lost is whatever is in the foam that spills over the top of the bottle, so I would think that it's pretty negligible unless you create a big gusher. You're starting with close to 300 ml of CO2 in 12 ounces of beer. You're losing what, maybe 5 or 10 mL of that? So 0.03 volumes or thereabouts, which is pretty much a rounding error.

 

[Miraculix]

You ferment under pressure then?, otherwise i would think the co2 in the beer would be minimal as it all escapes.

No fermentation under pressure. The naturally remaining co2 in solution after fermentation is sufficient to create the foam if being forced out of solution via ultra sonic sound.

 

[bwible]

The only CO2 that is actually lost is whatever is in the foam that spills over the top of the bottle, so I would think that it's pretty negligible unless you create a big gusher. You're starting with close to 300 ml of CO2 in 12 ounces of beer. You're losing what, maybe 5 or 10 mL of that? So 0.03 volumes or thereabouts, which is pretty much a rounding error.

Thanks, thats why I asked

 

[Jocky]

I’ve hear that commercial bottling/canning lines produce foam by firing a little jet of water in.

I wondered if you could do the same with carbonated water and a syringe or bottle with a nozzle on it.

 

[bwible]

Just a little wider than the bottom of a half-liter bottle. But maybe you shouldn't be so frugal with money. 25 euros isn't much.

Maybe this is something you could find in a Goodwill store, Re-uzit shop, or similar

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Okay this makes sense many brewers with more experience than I have said always cap on foam. And that bottle conditioning takes care of oxygen (baring horrendously splashing during transfer etc.). Last year I brewed a very hoppy American strong for a competition (honestly, it’s not something I enjoy sipping) I didn’t need to ship it so I packaged it high fill and bottle conditioned refrigerated once enough time passed. Judges were not kind, and tasted oxidation. I’m not positive that they scored my beer since there wasn’t mention of my over fill on the sheet.
Anyway, I sent two of the remaining beers to a comp as a red IPA. Thinking more wiggle room for the grain bill I used. Feed back was a much better as was the score, but still a mention of slight oxidation. I often give my head space a little shot of wine preservation gas. BTW, what the judges thought about this beer did matter. As I said, not a style I like nor really ever drink. Helpful feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Miraculix]

Okay this makes sense many brewers with more experience than I have said always cap on foam. And that bottle conditioning takes care of oxygen (baring horrendously splashing during transfer etc.). Last year I brewed a very hoppy American strong for a competition (honestly, it’s not something I enjoy sipping) I didn’t need to ship it so I packaged it high fill and bottle conditioned refrigerated once enough time passed. Judges were not kind, and tasted oxidation. I’m not positive that they scored my beer since there wasn’t mention of my over fill on the sheet.
Anyway, I sent two of the remaining beers to a comp as a red IPA. Thinking more wiggle room for the grain bill I used. Feed back was a much better as was the score, but still a mention of slight oxidation. I often give my head space a little shot of wine preservation gas. BTW, what the judges thought about this beer did matter. As I said, not a style I like nor really ever drink. Helpful feedback would be appreciated.

Not to go off the rail here too much, but I heard so much nonsense feedback from judges that I would trust my own taste buds ten times more. Imagine yourself having tried ten strong, highly hopped beers and being under the pressure to detect any flaw present in the next one to taste. It is pretty much impossible under these circumstances to give a realistic oppinion.

 

[MikeCo]

This seems like a great and low-cost way to minimize oxygen for bottle conditioning. Do you think you will be able to compare the results of this method to bottling without the US bath at some point?

 

[Miraculix]

This seems like a great and low-cost way to minimize oxygen for bottle conditioning. Do you think you will be able to compare the results of this method to bottling without the US bath at some point?

I should have bottled a few bottles the "normal" minimum headspace way last time, You're right. I got too excited over the new gadget and forget the comparison.

 

[MikeCo]

Well, maybe next batch. Thanks for sharing this!

 

[bwible]

This seems like a great and low-cost way to minimize oxygen for bottle conditioning. Do you think you will be able to compare the results of this method to bottling without the US bath at some point?

Back in #37 the jet of water was mentioned. Has anybody tried sanitizing a spray bottle and using it to squirt in a jet of distilled or bottled water like the brewery bottling lines do? Maybe a 3 way test?

 

[bwible]

Oooh, I have one of these:

 

[Miraculix]

Back in #37 the jet of water was mentioned. Has anybody tried sanitizing a spray bottle and using it to squirt in a jet of distilled or bottled water like the brewery bottling lines do? Maybe a 3 way test?

The introduced turbulences in the surface of the beer will draw a lot of air under the surface and this air will get trapped in the foam. Won't work.

 

[AlexKay]

I'm glad this worked for you. I tried almost exactly the same thing, and the briefest touch of the power button made the bottle spew a several-foot-high geyser of beer.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm glad this worked for you. I tried almost exactly the same thing, and the briefest touch of the power button made the bottle spew a several-foot-high geyser of beer.

I think I've seen your thread about it. Didn't you try it with fully carbonated beer? That's much different to what I'm suggesting here.

 

[mashdar]

The introduced turbulences in the surface of the beer will draw a lot of air under the surface and this air will get trapped in the foam. Won't work.

That, and we generally don't have deoxygenated water available in the home setting.

 

[PCABrewing]

That, and we generally don't have deoxygenated water available in the home setting.

Boiling water de-oxygenates it, not completely but that is one of the arguments for adding oxygen to wort before pitching.
Once the water cools it starts to absorb oxygen unless it is somehow excluded.

 

[AlexKay]

I think I've seen your thread about it. Didn't you try it with fully carbonated beer? That's much different to what I'm suggesting here.

Ah, yes, I did indeed. Would not recommend.

 

[Miraculix]

Ah, yes, I did indeed. Would not recommend.

Well, someone had to try it .

I can ensure you, with a non-carbed beer, directly from the unpressurised fermenter, you won't get the fountain you've experienced with the carbed up beer.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I recall a Tree House video testing beer gadgets where Nate reviewed an ultrasonic beer foamer device. A search on Amazon turns up items in the $9 to $30 USD price range. The shape of these might be better for a beer bottle and smaller to store away if the only use is for bottling.

An inexpensive device: https://a.co/d/bY68Qo2
I see a number of listing that look the same for this one in the $20 to $30 range: https://a.co/d/iLdFUpt

 

[Miraculix]

I recall a Tree House video testing beer gadgets where Nate reviewed an ultrasonic beer foamer device. A search on Amazon turns up items in the $9 to $30 USD price range. The shape of these might be better for a beer bottle and smaller to store away if the only use is for bottling.

An inexpensive device: https://a.co/d/bY68Qo2
I see a number of listing that look the same for this one in the $20 to $30 range: https://a.co/d/iLdFUpt

Are you kidding me!?

Beer foamer device? Maaaan the world is crazy. Why learn how to pour propperly, when you can buy such a thing?

... For bottling, they might be too weak though. They must be designed for fully carbed up beer and not to squeeze out the little foam that uncarbed beer straight out of the fermenter can deliver. But I never tried it.
As a German, I feel somehow wierdly insulted right now .

 

[day_trippr]

Borrow someone's vibrator