no head at all out of a stout faucet

[jonp9576]

i think i might try something close to 20 psi tonight. when i had it at 25 it still seemed a little fast. 20 might work.

i tried it at 10 with straight co2. it made my dark chocolate stout look like chocolate milk.

 

[bendavanza]

I think you need to make sure your beer is actually carbonated, I found a good read on prepping nitro beers here : Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Brew Wizard - Nitro beers & low-carb beers
best of luck I want to do the same, I just need to fill a tank at this point.

 

[jonp9576]

so now i need a carbonation stone. this sucks.

i just tried about 10 different pressures. i guess this isnt going to work haveing just carbed it with co2 and now trying to pour it with the mix. dam this sucks.

what i dont understand though is, if i am supposed to seve this at 30 psi, then why does it come out of the faucet so dam fast.

i know the plate is there and it still pours very fast and it has no head at all, even though its been on co2 in the fridge for about a week

 

[jonp9576]

so this writeup is telling me i need to carb with notrogen and co2. what do i do now thats its carbed with just co2. put it to room temp and keep bleeding the relief valve till its flat?

this is beginning to really drive me nuts

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Somehow you need to get the NO2 into solution. The reason for the creamy top on nitro served beers is because the NO2 comes out of solution at atmospheric pressure (rapidly). In order for this to happen you need to first get the NO2 dissolved into the beer.

I really wish you luck, that sounds terribly frustrating....

 

[jonp9576]

after reading online for a while and searching and searching i've come to the conclusion that i need to make this beer flat and then start over carbing at high pressure(30-40 psi (cold) with the beer mix. this higher presure will dissolve the nitrogen into the beer(so says one website. they compared it the the bends that divers get).

how do i get it flat?

 

[jtd_1]

I think it has something to do with the plate - either way.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Getting it flat....

I would purchase a HEPA air filter and rig it up so your beer was venting to atmosphere. warm up the beer and relieve the pressure as often as possible. That could take a while.

 

[jonp9576]

is it possible that the holes in the plate are too big? is the plate directional?

 

[jtd_1]

is the plate directional?[/QUOTE]


if its not, it should be!

 

[jonp9576]

i mean does it only work in one direction. it looks the same both ways.

 

[Ender]

JP,
You dont need to carb it on beer gas to get it to work. I have a bitter that I brewed a few weeks ago and had it in the fridge at 36F w/ 5psi on it. Reading this thread made me dig out my other stout faucet and hook it up. Started out w/ 40psi w/ the beer gas and didn't get the cascaed. It looked like it was all foam. It did settle out though and became beer after a few mins. Lowered it to 30psi and it was a little better, had some cascade. Lowered it to 20 and seemed better, but not quite right. Had a beer with my pizza tonight at 24psi and that was about right for me. Each time I purged the keg and refilled it with the new psi. Of course my wife said it was flat, but being a bitter, I understand that.

do you have a pressure gague you can hook up to the stout and see what the pressure is in the keg? Are you sure it's not leaking some how? Maybe from the lid or the pressure relief? Soap that bad boy up and see. you said that it "it tastes great but kinda flat"

I'm pretty sure the plate is not directional. When you hooked it up to the regular faucet you said it looked like chocolate milk. Is that because it cam out faat then, or too carbed?

Did you dump the beer gas tank and refill it to make sure it was beer gas? Just throwing that out there too since you have the capabilities to do that.

 

[bendavanza]

The plate can go in either way. When I pour guinness, it comes out relatively strong, and immediately is looking like foam but within seconds is beginning to settle out. You get the cascading bubble effect, etc, and then you pour the last 1/3 of the glass pushing the faucet rather than pulling it. Pushing goes slower but either way it still comes out fairly quickly, even though it's going through the restrictor plate and through the small nozzle.
Nitro beers are a pain in the ass and that's why most people never bother. I found that a creamer faucet, which is plastic, can make a nice creamy head very slowly with a normally carbonated beer. Not nearly the same as a nitro, but different from your normal pour.
-Ben

 

[jonp9576]

ender. no leaks here.

i have it sitting right now at 40 psi in the keezer. on the mix.

when i poured it before anywhere from 40 down to 20 psi after it was carbed with co2, there was no head at all.

when i pushed it with co2 it looked lighter colored(chocolate milk) decent head and it cascaded a little. it never settled.

 

[Ender]

I've got no idea what is wrong then. It has to be something with the carbonation of the keg. I dont know what happens if it's over carb'd. From what you've said it's around 2.4 volumes of Co2? It should be around 1.3 volumse I think. Maybe this has something to do with how fast it is pouring from the stout faucet.

Do you have anything that not carb'd yet you can try out? If not try pulling the pressure relief valuve evey chance you get to reduce the co2 in the stout you do have.

What size is the beer line? I know you said its 10 feet, whats the I.D.? ZTry hooking up one of your other kegs (ones on the co2 tap) to the stout faucet and see what they look like? Leave them as they are co2 and all and take the inards out of the stout faucet and see how they pour. Dont know if that'll show you anything, but it might

 

[Yuri_Rage]

...Pushing goes slower but either way it still comes out fairly quickly, even though it's going through the restrictor plate and through the small nozzle....

...Nitro beers are a pain in the ass and that's why most people never bother...

I've had quite the opposite experience on both counts. My stout faucet pours at exactly the same rate whether you push or pull the handle. I found it very simple to achieve success by lightly force carbonating a beer, then pushing it with inert gas through the stout faucet (32 psi seems to be the magic number for my setup).

 

[Coastarine]

I'm confused...according the mr wizard and northern brewer's pdf instructions diffusion stone method, N2 needs to be dissolved in the beer. According to the northern brewer alternate method and Yuri, it doesn't.

My understanding WAS that another gas was used in order to just push the beer harder while not over carbing it.

 

[jonp9576]

thats what i thought too coastarine. but now mr wizard is saying that i need to get nitrogen dissolved into the beer

 

[olllllo]

If beer gas ( the nitrogen co2 mix) is your SOLE means of force cabing then you do need the stone to get the small percentage of CO2 dissolved.

If you are using CO2 as the means of carbonation then you do not need the stone.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Can anyone post or quote the instructions/article(s) that mention the need for nitrogen to be dissolved? I'd like to see what they recommend. In any case, CO2 is the gas you want dissolved in your beer. Nitrogen is barely soluble at all, which is what makes it so ideal for the application.

 

[Coastarine]

Nitrogenated beers typically contain very low amounts of carbon dioxide, around 2.4 g/L or 1.2 volumes, and an even lower concentration of nitrogen of about 20 mg/L. “Typical” beers contain about 5 g/L of carbon dioxide and no nitrogen. The concentration of nitrogen is much lower than the carbon dioxide content because nitrogen is not very soluble in liquids. When dispensed through a special faucet, the nitrogen “breaks out” of the beer and forms very small, stable bubbles. Nitrogen foams are much more stable than carbon dioxide foams because the atmosphere is about 79 percent nitrogen and there is not much driving force between the gas concentration in the bubble and the concentration in the atmosphere. That’s why “nitro” beers have such awesome, stable foam. The density and creaminess of the foam also adds a terrific mouthfeel to the beer.

From the BYO article linked earlier. Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Brew Wizard - Nitro beers & low-carb beers

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I'm almost positive that the stable foam is largely made up of CO2 filled bubbles simply made fine through the use of a restrictor plate. I'll do some more research on the topic.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Actually, I don't need to do any more research...I've already done it! I use pure Argon (instead of beer gas or pure nitrogen) to push my beer through a stout faucet. The foam is just as dense and stable as it would be if it were pushed with nitrogen. I carbonate with CO2 to about 1.0-1.5 volumes before putting the beer on Argon. When I undercarbonated a beer, the foam was nearly non-existent. I accidentally overcarbonated one, and it was all foam (very dense, stable foam). So, I rest my case. Nitrogen has NOTHING to do with the stability of the foam. It's simply a way to serve under high pressure without overcarbonating.

 

[Coastarine]

Actually, I don't need to do any more research...I've already done it! I use pure Argon (instead of beer gas or pure nitrogen) to push my beer through a stout faucet. The foam is just as dense and stable as it would be if it were pushed with nitrogen. I carbonate with CO2 to about 1.0-1.5 volumes before putting the beer on Argon. When I undercarbonated a beer, the foam was nearly non-existent. I accidentally overcarbonated one, and it was all foam (very dense, stable foam). So, I rest my case. Nitrogen has NOTHING to do with the stability of the foam. It's simply a way to serve under high pressure without overcarbonating.

I can now second this. I hooked up my stout faucet today but I haven't bought a beergas tank. I decided to just hook it up to CO2 and turn up the pressure. I have a keg of irish red carb'd to about 1.5 volumes (conveniently 0psi at 38 degrees, so just carb slightly then vent a few times. It came out as a glass of foam that cascaded beautifully into a velvety smooth pub nectar with a dense white head.

 

[jonp9576]

so finally i have this

i took it off of all pressure. i left it in the fridge for a week on 7 psi of straight co2.
i re filled my mix to more of a 70/30 mix.
i hooked it up last night at 20 psi and i was pleasantly met with my cascade.
thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Ender]

Very Nice! Glad it worked out. Looks tasty

 

[RCxc]

That does look awesome. Next time make sure not a drop of the deliciousness spills

 

[jonp9576]

i knew looking at the picture that someone would give me a hard time about the spill. it was the drips from the ones we poured before this one. i havent figured out a drip tray setup yet.

 

[olllllo]

Stout Faucets drip. Alot.

I take end off after each session and rinse it out.

 

[jonp9576]

thats what i did at the end of the night. i felt like if i didnt the beer would dry and close the holes in the plate.