No Crystal Malt APA? Just 2-Row and Vienna?

[sleepystevenson]

I am thinking about doing an Am Pale ale this weekend with no crystal malt. I really like the light colored, drier, crisp APA's and, I have a bunch of base malts on hand from a recent group buy.

I was thinking just Canadian Superior Pale Malt (or similar Brit style pale malt) 2-row, Vienna, and maybe a bit of flaked barley for head/body. I know a lot of people on here have used a high percentage of vienna / all vienna in their brews (search is your friend!) , just wanted some advice, guidance, and general impressions, as I never have. (I also have Pils malt I could use instead for base.) Looking specifically for advice on the grain bill (percentages), mash schedule, hop schedule, yeast selection.

Here's what I tentatively have :

Batch size: 11 Gals.
Style: APA
Starting gravity: 1.050-1.052
IBU: 38 (Rager) .76 Bitterness ratio


Mash temp: 153 (?) for 60 mins.

Yeast: S05 in both carboys, or S05 in one and Notty in the other


64% (14#) Superior Pale Ale malt
32% (7#) Vienna Malt
4% (1#) Flaked barley

All whole leaf:
2.00 oz Pearle [7.10 %] (60 min) Hops 26.0 IBU
1.00 oz Pearle [7.10 %] (20 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
1.00 oz Glacier [5.70 %] (20 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
1.00 oz Glacier [5.70 %] (10 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (10 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 oz Glacier [5.70 %] (0 min) Hops -


Thanks, All!!

 

[Hugh_Jass]

I haven't used any crystal when brewing APA/IPA for a while. It's just 75% 2-row or MO and 25% Vienna. IMO, you wont need any flaked barley either.

 

[wildwest450]

I'v recently been adding a small amount (12oz) of biscuit or victory malt to my ipa's. It really adds a nice background flavor. Nothing at all wrong with just vienna though. I personally wouldn't use flaked barley in an ipa. If you can't get sufficient body through the mash, carapils will do the same thing and allow the beer to clear up.

_

 

[sleepystevenson]

Yeah, I usually use carapils, but I happen to have a bunch of flaked barley left from a previous batch, and I have been using it lately in the place of carapils with good results. I find that if I keep it under 5% I can still get a clear beer.

Maybe I will try it without the Carapils/Flaked barley this time, and mash a little higher 154-155 to get the body.

 

[Steelers77]

Vienna in an APA is the only way to go in my opinion. I use around 20-30% for a nice orange hue and a wonderful sweet/malty flavor that IMO complements American hops very well. I actually moved away from a 50/50 mix of MO and American 2-row to the Vienna and 2-row and haven't looked back.

 

[sleepystevenson]

Sounds like maybe I should back down the percentage of Vienna to 25% +/- and drop the barley completely or to just 1/2 pound.

Thanks for the advice so far!

What are you mashing at, Steelers77 for your APA's with that grain bill?

 

[GlenF]

I'd move the flameout additions to dry hop. You'll be pleased with the aroma.

 

[badhabit]

I have pretty much quit using Carapils and in most cases Crystal in my IPA and APA. I found that I just don't need the addition for mouth feel or head retention. On occasion I will use 10% or less of 30 or 50 L Crystal because I like the taste. I have also been using up to 25% Victory or Vienna depending on how much I want to try and balance my hop and malt profile.

 

[scottland]

I see nothing wrong with a no crystal APA or IPA. It totally works well in an IPA. I think an APA can use a little, but it will be a great beer regardless.

Consider mashing around 154-155. You'll want some dextrines in the beer, or you'll have a really dry pale ale (unless that's what you're after)

 

[sleepystevenson]

Thanks for the advice, all. I am gonna go with 73% superior pale and 27% vienna. No carapils or flaked barley. KISS. Will mash at 154.

 

[KraphtBier]

How did the beer turn out? I'm getting set to brew a similar APA and I'm a little worried I wont get the rocky head I want for this beer without using some sort of crystal or dextrin.

 

[DustBow]

My neighbor and I did a Vienna SMaSH, he liked it so much he tries to keep it on tap all the time as his "house blonde".
I don't remember any head/body issues - Vienna is one of my faves, seems to be very versatile

 

[badhabit]

How did the beer turn out? I'm getting set to brew a similar APA and I'm a little worried I wont get the rocky head I want for this beer without using some sort of crystal or dextrin.

I like the way my IPAs and APAs taste and the way they feel without the crystal or the carapils. I do include some Victory or usally Vienna for malt flavor when I cut the crystal. I have never had any trouble with head in any of my light beers (the local water) so that was never a consideration.

 

[sleepystevenson]

I can't comment yet on the taste.... haven't kegged it yet! But, I will do so this week. I split the batch into 2 carboys, pitched one with S05 and the other with Notty. Fermentation appeared to be pretty normal. I am surprised it came out darker than what I suspected it would

I will report back here soon with the results!