No Boil No chill Experiment

[Mastert1]

I'm thinking of trying a no boil no chill combo and wondering if anyone else has done this.

I have a 2 vessel electric re-circulation system with my element in the BK.

My thought is:
-Do a standard re-circulating mash at 150deg.
-Add the FWH hops in the BK while still re-circulating and ramp up to mash out at 170 for 20 minutes or so
(I always keep at least 3 gallons in the BK to submerge my element and I would run the BK up to 180 Deg while ramping up)
-Then just drain strait to my no chill container, add some finishing hops, close the cap and let it sit at room temp over night.

A couple things I have read support this but i'm not sure of there legitimacy in practice:

1. DMS only really forms above 180deg so that shouldn't be a problem
2. 160deg is the temp needed to pasteurize beer so contamination shouldn't be a problem

My concerns would be getting enough bitterness and getting a very hazy beer. I would try to clear it with gelatin later, and could maybe solve the bitterness problem with hop oil or a partial decoction boil with added hops.

Any thoughts on this crazy idea?

 

[aangel]

Good luck with it. Let us know!

 

[ThunderKhajiit]

I'm interested to know how this goes. Sounds like it would make for a very quick AG brewday.

 

[foodplusbeer]

If you don't get enough bitterness you can always make a hop tea and add post-fermentation.

 

[jddevinn]

The proteins that separate and fall into trub during the hot and cold breaks won't happen....... not sure what that will do to the beer though!

 

[poptarts]

coopers can kit clone, nice, might hit up owly for more info

 

[Mastert1]

jddevinn - I'm concerned about this as well. I wonder it if will make a very thick beer. I'm not sure if using gelatin after fermentation will clear the protein or not. I think there are other protein clearing products out there I'll look into as well.

foodplusbeer - I was thinking of the hop tea idea. Also maybe hop oil. Does anyone have experience with that?

 

[kombat]

I would expect it will produce hazy, infected beer with practically no bitterness. But you never know until you try - prove me wrong!

 

[jddevinn]

jddevinn - I'm concerned about this as well. I wonder it if will make a very thick beer. I'm not sure if using gelatin after fermentation will clear the protein or not. I think there are other protein clearing products out there I'll look into as well.

foodplusbeer - I was thinking of the hop tea idea. Also maybe hop oil. Does anyone have experience with that?

Very quick research inbetween work finds:

We also dismissed any maillard reactions which may happen during the boil.

Boiled wort will increase in color due to 'non-enzymatic browning'


The removal of some high molecular weight protein is one of the objects of wort boiling. Insufficient coagulation and the removal of such proteins may affect exchange process between yeast cells and the surrounding medium leading to an insufficient PH drop in the fermentation. The excess protein may not then be eliminated during the fermentation and lead to clarification problems and harsh bitterness in the final beer. Further, proteins surviving into the final beer may react, on storage, with polyphenols to form a non-biological haze which will shorten the shelf life of the beer.

Many people no cool. The cold break is much smaller (both in physical size and weight percent) than the hot and likely does not contribute as much to flavor, stability and mouthfeel as the hot break.

Interesting to try but would not be my standard procedure.

Hop extract oil is used often. Details on calculations for substitutions are around here somewhere.

 

[squaremile]

We talked about this some in the no boil /raw ale thread. Everything you did is totally fine, although I would have suggested adding Whirlfloc if you added a lot of hops. My first no boil was also no chill and the suspended proteins kept some unpleasant hop compounds in the finished beer. If it's just a little bit of hops you'll be fine. Also what was your OG? Hard to know about bitterness without that, but my guess is you'll be totally fine, the oxidized beta acids will be plenty bitter for most beers.

 

[Mastert1]

Squaremile-

The recipe would be something like the following for a basic American IPA:
8.25 Gallons total water 5 gallons into no chill cube
15 lbs American 2 row
1 lb caramel/crystal 20L
2 lbs Munich 9srm

Based of 58% efficiency I'd be looking at an O.G. of 1.065

yeast - WLP001

I'm thinking of all the hops at mashout 170 for 30 minutes.
6 oz of pellet Centennial

The bitterness feels like a shot in the dark because it's hard to predict what the slow chilling will do.

If you plug it into BrewCipher for 6 oz of pellet Centennial during a 170 deg whirlpool for 60 minutes it gives an IBU of 60.8
I feel like that's a good compromise for 30 minutes of whirlpool and slow chill

What do you think?

 

[squaremile]

I think you'll be totally fine in terms of getting enough bitterness, maybe even more than you expect. If it's not enough I'd lower the crystal malts a couple percent. Let me know how it goes, I don't think anyone over at the no boil thread has done a standard gravity hop forward beer like this. Looking forward to hearing about it. Also ignore anyone who says it will get infected, everything is killed even below 170.

 

[Mastert1]

Thanks for the encouragement Squaremile.

I've been reading the no boil thread and it looks like you have done quite a few of these.
I think I might switch to whole hops to keep more of them out of the cube and drop them to 5 oz.
The recipe is intended to be similar to a Bell's Two Hearted Ale so I don't want to over bitter. Just "balance" the maltiness I get from the Munich and Crystal.
I could always add hop later through hop tea if I need to.

Anyway I'll give it a try this weekend and let you know how it went.

 

[popsicleian]

Thanks for the encouragement Squaremile.

I've been reading the no boil thread and it looks like you have done quite a few of these.
I think I might switch to whole hops to keep more of them out of the cube and drop them to 5 oz.
The recipe is intended to be similar to a Bell's Two Hearted Ale so I don't want to over bitter. Just "balance" the maltiness I get from the Munich and Crystal.
I could always add hop later through hop tea if I need to.

Anyway I'll give it a try this weekend and let you know how it went.

Reviving this zombie thread--how did it come out? I'd like to experiment with something similar.

 

[NickThoR]

Im also curious, I plan on trying a no boil next week. Most of the no boils in squaremiles thread ( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=540077 ) were 3% or sours. Im mostly interested in regular abv at around 5%. I do plan on chilling though.

 

[popsicleian]

I bought the grains to do a 4% pale ale batch in the next couple of weeks. I'll post back with results after I brew and it's ready.

 

[dirkjk]

I bought the grains to do a 4% pale ale batch in the next couple of weeks. I'll post back with results after I brew and it's ready.

How did this turn out for you? I plan on doing a no boil this weekend.

 

[popsicleian]

How did this turn out for you? I plan on doing a no boil this weekend.

Sorry for the delayed response, I've been traveling over the last week.

I think it turned out pretty decent, especially given the level of effort it required. My grain bill was about 85% 2-row, 10% Vienna, 5% Caramel 20. I mashed at 152 and used 2oz of Simcoe in the mash (this was for a 3.75 gallon batch, with an OG of 1.041). I pulled the grain bag after conversion and heated it up to 170 for pasteurization/mashout before racking into a keg to chill overnight. I fermented in the keg at ambient temp using Omega Hothead, making this a true lazy man's brew.

My impression from what I had read here and elsewhere was that no-boil could give a pretty full mouthfeel even on lower gravity beers. That was definitely not my experience. The body is definitely too light. Next time I would mash higher or do a higher gravity beer.

I was going for something on the lower side of the bitterness spectrum for a pale ale, which I achieved--I got plenty of bitterness from the mash hopping, but it's not excessive. I would say the hop flavor and aroma are both in the moderate range.

I burst carbed the beer in a keg, and my initial pours had a weird herbal savoriness that I wasn't really digging. My best guess is that it was hop-related. However, I brought a growler to my homebrew club meeting last night after not having touched the beer for about a week, and it was significantly improved. There was still an herbal note, but it wasn't unpleasant, and the weird savoriness seems to be gone. Everyone who tried it agreed it had no off-flavors and was a perfectly serviceable pale ale. I think there are probably certain hops that work much better for mash-only hopping, but figuring out what those are will require some experimentation. I would probably not use Simcoe in the future.

My brew was actually done as a lead-up to my brew club meeting last night, at which we brewed a no-boil, no-chill saison (37.5% Pils, 37.5% Pale, 25% Wheat malt, cascade hops, with peppercorn and orange peel). I think a more rustic style like a saison is probably better suited for this sort of technique. We enjoy doing brew days together, but our meetings are on a weeknight starting at 7, and by the time everyone gets there it's hard and stressful to make a brew happen without running super late. We ended up with about 6 gallons, which we split into two separate kegs--one will ferment with WLP566, and the other with a wit yeast. We'll sample at our next meeting, and I can report back with results.

Hope that is helpful to someone!

 

[Ninoid]

My fourth No Boil - No Chill batch is just fermenting, and the third one is just drinking and it is very good. There is no difference between cooked beers in drinkable. Hop should be boil separated in a small amount of pure water and at the end of the mash rise the temperature of the wort to 78 ° C (lid on) for pasteurization. Pour to fermenter and wait up to 24 hours before pitch yeast.

 

[GnenieGone]

Thanks for reviving this thread so I know about it. I do no boil hard lemonades with only dme, lemonade concentrate, and corn surgar. They turn out fantastic. I have a porter with DME and some special grains that I'll try this on. Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[Ninoid]

With DME I would have boiled the hop in a few liters of water per recipe and eventually, after boil off, mixed the sugar and DME to dissolve, put into the fermenter and added water to room temperature to the required measure by recipe.

 

[lootcorp]

Man...you don't brew for a year, come back into the mix, and these crazy kids are doing no-boil no-chill beers

What'll they think of next?

 

[GnenieGone]

Did a Porter the other night. 40min to get to 180F and 40min cooling to pitch temp and clean up! Hydrometer sample appeared normal. Some bitterness with chocolate/some sweetness. At 120F added the grains and pulled at 180F and started chilling. I boiled the hops for 10min and turned off the stove then added to the strainer mixed in before chilling.