Nine Criminal Bikers down..... how many to go?

[Billy-Klubb]

I agree with you completely. I'm not patched but let's say I'm an enthusiast that knows somebody that knows somebody. I'm not often close to being a target of prejudice, but this one hits pretty close to home.

you should try it some time. after more than 20 years, you still don't get used to it.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Hmmm... People are trying to get more info on the story, and the local PD is pretty unwilling to release video... Witness testimony suggests that most of the shooting was from the police.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/26/waco-police-continue-campaign-to-keep-us

There might be more to this story...

 

[Zuljin]

There have already been a few folks bailed out who don't seem to have had anything at all to do with the gangs.

Waco PD was all about releasing the video and all kinds of evidence that would clear this all up, but we haven't seen it, yet.

This whole thing has turned sordid.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

and people wonder why I walk the other way when I see cops. I don't want to be the next "example".

 

[brew_ny]

and people wonder why I walk the other way when I see cops. I don't want to be the next "example".

the largest well armed street gang wears blue

 

[Owly055]

Hmmm... People are trying to get more info on the story, and the local PD is pretty unwilling to release video... Witness testimony suggests that most of the shooting was from the police.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/26/waco-police-continue-campaign-to-keep-us

There might be more to this story...

In a situation where the cops come into a gunfight, anybody carrying a weapon is fair game... Whatever the actual details, the cops didn't start the shooting, and numerous armed people were involved. The Bandidos are a criminal organization, not a group of weekend dentists and stock brokers, and federal authorities recognize them in the same class as the mafia...... for good reason. Some groups, most notably the Hells Angels have used their widespread name recognition to recruit ordinary people who are attracted to their "bad ass" reputation, and ultimately sanitize their image to some degree.... acting as "cover".......... Hang on wannabes who want to look and act tough. This does not apply to Bandidos, Sons of Silence, Mongols, Outlaws, and other truly violent criminal gangs.
The cops know all about these gangs, and seldom come into a situation where they can rid the world of this kind of trash. If I were a cop in that situation, I would probably systematically shoot as many weapons bearing criminals as I could weather the weapon was a pistol or a baseball bat. We can't expect our LEOs to use a light and discriminating hand in a violent riot. Many gang members were arrested approaching the scene carrying weapons, and arrests at the scene were somewhat indiscriminate....... as is to be expected. What are you doing in the middle of a riot if you aren't part of it? Sane and normal people run AWAY from that kind of situation, not into the middle of it.

I've only once found myself in the "crossfire" in a gunfight, and once in the "kill zone" of a sniper randomly shooting people from a window high above the street....... Self preservation instinct was to get away as far and as fast as possible.... I didn't want to be in the path of a bullet or in the first instance a load of birdshot........... Or sitting in the police station giving a statement. I was in my teens both times.
I also made the mistake around the same time of associating with a fellow student who I knew was from a mafia family.........After innocently going along with him and ending up in the middle of a situation where a cargo of drugs was being unloaded in a "safe house" ..... or whatever they called it, and pitching in as if I were one of them (self preservation at work again)....The four adults involved were all obviously armed, and trusted him as he was part of their operation... they didn't know me, and foolishly assumed I belonged there. I don't know to this day why I didn't blow the whistle on the operation..... except perhaps that I was scared to death of the guys. I could easily have tipped the law off on what was going on and where, and they could have put the house under surveillance, and ultimately rolled up the whole operation. I knew his dad well, and knew how far his tentacles reached....... I was rightfully afraid.......... he was one of the big guys..Dons or whatever they term them, nobody to mess with!

It was a lesson for me........ just not to get involved with those kinds of people (criminals) at all.......... If you associate with them, the chance of being swept up into something you don't want to be involved in greatly increases. I've noticed that criminals have groopies just like movie stars. People who want to emulate them in some respects, but without really getting their hands dirty. Witness America's taste in movies and video games.......... In six more years, I will have outlived my friend 3 fold!!

This kind of thing doesn't happen in Montana..... except Billings, and I know enough to avoid potential "situations". If you decide to play with the Bandidos and end up getting injured, killed, or arrested as a result.......you've only yourself to blame!!

The cops did what they felt they needed to do......The only thing to regret is that they didn't get more of them!!

H.W.

 

[Rhumbline]

I liked the way it used to be here in Daytona, before Bike Week turned into a fashion show. The Bikers all knew to leave any foolishness at the border. No bar would allow anyone in wearing colors. Hell, these people actually rode their bikes down here.

It was mostly chill. Every few years the cops would set up a tent city jail out in the woods and crack down, lock up several thousand for a few days and then everything would be cool for a few years.

Now it's posers on parade, wanna be tough guys who trailer the thing down and ride two weeks a year before going back to being dental hygenists and insurance salesmen.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I liked the way it used to be here in Daytona, before Bike Week turned into a fashion show. The Bikers all knew to leave any foolishness at the border. No bar would allow anyone in wearing colors. Hell, these people actually rode their bikes down here.

It was mostly chill. Every few years the cops would set up a tent city jail out in the woods and crack down, lock up several thousand for a few days and then everything would be cool for a few years.

Now it's posers on parade, wanna be tough guys who trailer the thing down and ride two weeks a year before going back to being dental hygenists and insurance salesmen.

in Sturgis it was a wild time, but people knew how to stay out of eachothers way. now it's Bankers, not Bikers. it's a vacation spot for the wanna-be hard cores and their families. I remember walking into places and walking out because of different "clubs" being present and not wanting involved. now it's all Candyland.

 

[Zuljin]

Bringing people in for questioning is one thing. Holding people to sort them out is one thing. There are still 160 or so in jail on $1,000,000 bonds. Everyone was wholesale charged with engaging in organised crime.

What was originally reported as a gang dispute is shaping up to be a lot more.

 

[Owly055]

Bringing people in for questioning is one thing. Holding people to sort them out is one thing. There are still 160 or so in jail on $1,000,000 bonds. Everyone was wholesale charged with engaging in organised crime.

What was originally reported as a gang dispute is shaping up to be a lot more.

If you are a member of one of the gangs involved in the shooting riot, and you were there, that's enough...... The Bandidos at least are considered a criminal syndicate, and it is well known that they swear an oath of loyalty to their "brothers".

The cops know the difference between an innocent bystander, and a member of a criminal gang. If you are a member of one of the two gangs that were shooting it out, and you were present, you are by definition guilty, regardless of weather you actually fired a shot just like the driver of a get away car is guilty as an accessory to the murders inside the bank. Painting this as some kind of gross injustice is just silly!!

The mindset is "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" (arrest them all and let the court system sort them out)......... and it's well justified.


H.W.

 

[Zuljin]

But there are people in jail to this day who are not in either gang. Just being in at Twin Peaks that day is not a crime, but it's being treated that way

 

[Owly055]

But there are people in jail to this day who are not in either gang. Just being in at Twin Peaks that day is not a crime, but it's being treated that way

That's somebody's story anyway........This happened long enough ago for innocents to have been sorted out. There obviously is video. There are consequences for holding somoene without cause for an extended period of time......... There is a "process", arraignment, public defenders, etc. There is a "day in court", and a potential for lawsuits...... If you were writing this 24, 48, or 72 hours after the incident, I would be inclined to believe that it was quite possible that a few innocents were still being held. At this point I find it nearly impossible that they are willfully holding people they aren't confident of getting a conviction on. The law enforcement community are not known for being mental giants, but that would be stupid beyond what even they are normally capable of.

Law enforcement is under pretty heavy attack in the press lately......... with justification in many cases....... shootings and beatings of "innocent" people, corruption, and other abuses of power. I only put "innocent" in quotes because they in a number of cases are only "innocent" of any immediate provable crime. Many of us do not like LEOs much....... I don't have that problem locally.

We have an excellent sheriff & department, though one or two officers are obsessive and "over zealous", and we have what are probably the best troopers in the US in terms of having a good attitude, and being reasonably tolerant and friendly..... You don't go away from a stop pissed unless you are a real jerk here in Montana......In my experience.

24 miles to the north of me is another sheriff who is dishonest and corrupt, and who I was forced to threaten with legal action if he didn't desist in harassing a lady who was a close friend of mine. I didn't have to specifically "threaten"....... I simply let him know that she had been advised to document everything, and made it very very clear that he was overstepping his authority. I've never met the sheriff, but I know the judge and the county attorney, and it's clear from the way I'm treated up there, that the policy toward me is "be nice"............. I made it pretty clear that if you F with me, I'm going to F with you, and I have the resources to do it. I'm about mid way between two county seats, and the local sheriff is a neighbor (about 10 miles away), and I've been friends with him and his family for over 30 years. As a business person, I know all the "movers and shakers" in both counties, and that doesn't hurt. They know I'm honest, and that I don't drive drunk, or engage in domestic violence, etc. They know I take responsibility when I see a situation, call in when I see smoke, an accident, a crime, flag traffic when there's an issue like a wreck or livestock on the highway... until they get there.........Being a "good citizen" goes a long way.

Back in '11 I stopped on the highway during the massive spring floods, and cut up and with help of other motorists removed a downed tree that was blocking most of the highway.....I had a chainsaw in the pickup... Meanwhile a highway department official ranted and raved at us about how what we were doing was illegal, and we were required by law to wait for the highway department crew to get there from 20 miles away. Oddly enough he never came closer to me than the length of my chainsaw bar, and I had a lot of difficulty making out what he was saying over the sound of the saw at full throttle........ somehow it seemed that every time he began his ranting, and I turned to listen to him, the tip of the bar ended up near his crotch, and my finger slipped to full throttle.....and I went into "selective hearing loss". The sheriff arrived in due course, and I was subjected to a "tongue in cheek" lecture in front of the HWY dept guy about "respecting authority"......I apologized and pointed out that I couldn't really hear him over the saw. We laughed about it over a beer a couple of days later.

These are basically good people........ If you don't get along with them, it's your own fault............ I have met the other kind, but never really had problems with any of them anywhere.

H.W.