Newbies first post...used water cooler bottles, yes or no?

[spitfire44]

hey there people,

What an amazing site and community here. Thanks for all the great info. This is my first post, but I did an experimental batch of cider last year, loved it and now I am all in. So, for my first question, Dad gave me some 5 gal water bottles from work and I am trying to determine if they are ok to use as a secondary vessel, maybe even a primary. What should I look for as far as the usage of these bottles. One of the bottles even has a sticker on it from the produceplace.com.

They do have a "7" inside a triangular recycle symbol with "OTHER" under it.

Anyway, what are the guidelines on using plastic during each stage.

Thanks,

Eric

 

[alane1]

I'm no expert but I think you need a resin code of 2 for it to be ok for beer. 7 Might be ok for water but might be o2 permeable, which is not good for beer. Maybe someone else has some more insight?

 

[ChileBrewer]

I'd like to know too. I have a cooler bottle I've used a few times and haven't noticed anything bad, but please post up if i need to change it out.

 

[chawn]

I'm pretty sure that numbers 3, 6, & 7 should avoided due to toxins.

 

[Hoosierbrewer]

http://blog.eckraus.com/blog/wine-making-tricks-and-tips/theres-a-plastic-taste-and-smell-in-my-wine

Does this help?

 

[Lodestone]

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/recycle-triangles-bottom-plastics-mean-79330.html

 

[z-bob]

I bought a 4 gallon green plastic bottle of RO water at Menard's a couple of weeks ago for $5.49 (with no deposit), and right now it is primarying a 3 gallon batch of beer. I'm pretty sure it is #1 plastic, just like a Sprite bottle. If it is O2 permeable, I see that as a good thing for a primary fermenter. (and bad for a secondary or long-term storage) I love the light weight and toughness.

I don't think I'd use #7 plastic unless it was an emergency.

 

[Curtis2010]

I've used some for small batches. Link below explains the codes...after reading that I'm going to check my plastics. My interpretation is 7 is not what you want.

http://www.h2no.org/plastic_recycling_codes.asp

 

[MaxStout]

Why not just use them for what they were designed for--water? You need good water for brewing, and you can refill them with RO water for somewhere around 40 cents a gallon at supermarkets and Walmart.

 

[Hoosierbrewer]

Glass is always good. Or plastic fermenters. I use both

 

[ArcaneXor]

I would also stay away from #7 plastic. Doesn't a food-safe designation from the NSF always come with an "intended purpose"? If so, having an acidic solution containing a solvent like ethanol in a vessel is different than it containing pH-neutral to slightly alkaline water.

 

[Shred]

#2 is the best, but 1, 4 & 5 are all considered food safe.

I have an article that covers this and other money-saving shortcuts on my instructional beginners' homebrew blog:
http://www.shredshomebrews.com/articles/what-ive-learned-some-tips-shortcuts-part-1/

 

[UpstateMike]

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/recycle-triangles-bottom-plastics-mean-79330.html

Products marked with resin code 7 are made with mixed plastics. Some recycling programs accept mixed plastics, although they are not commonly recycled. Code 7 resins may contain bisphenol A, which the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences believes can cause effects on the brains and nervous systems of fetuses, infants and children, among other effects. It is probably wise for pregnant women and children to avoid these containers.

 

[spitfire44]

Why use a 7 for anything except as a giant penny jar?

 

[jtratcliff]

I use an old 5 G plastic water bottle as the hopper for my ugly junk corona mill in a homer bucket... Cut off the bottom and invert into the corona's small metal hopper.

 

[z-bob]

Why not just use them for what they were designed for--water? You need good water for brewing, and you can refill them with RO water for somewhere around 40 cents a gallon at supermarkets and Walmart.

That's probably the best answer -- use them to buy brewing water, or for emergency water storage.

(from what I've been able to find online since last night, #7 large plastic water bottles are polycarbonate. And there is much debate about whether it is "safe", or just "kinda safe", or "your babies will have flippers")

 

[Curtis2010]

I would also stay away from #7 plastic. Doesn't a food-safe designation from the NSF always come with an "intended purpose"? If so, having an acidic solution containing a solvent like ethanol in a vessel is different than it containing pH-neutral to slightly alkaline water.

Interestingly, I checked some I have today. Some are #7, but also have an NSF stamp. Not entirely sure what that means for use as a fermentor so will probably stay away from them. Here in Central America labels don't mean much

Good point about ethanol I think.

 

[Shred]

Products marked with resin code 7 are made with mixed plastics. Some recycling programs accept mixed plastics, although they are not commonly recycled. Code 7 resins may contain bisphenol A, which the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences believes can cause effects on the brains and nervous systems of fetuses, infants and children, among other effects. It is probably wise for pregnant women and children to avoid these containers.

It's probably wise for pregnant women and children to avoid homebrew too :cross:

 

[MindenMan]

My point exactly; children and pregnant women should avoid EtOH.

 

[estricklin]

For what's it's worth I brew mead and cider in my plastic water bottles all the time. Picked e'm up at wolly world for next to nothing.

I'm always amazed how people on this forum get so anxious about a nano gram of some plastic containment that MIGHT leech out into their beer, that may or may not be absorbed by the digestive system, that probably is only really toxic in large quantities or in minor doses on a daily basis over a long period of time, when the very product that we are making contains ALCOHOL!!

If they are ok for water, common sense should tell you that beer is probably not a stretch. I'm sure if there was any real chance someone was going to grow a third eye or develop a serious cancer from a few gallons of a lower pH substance being stored in them, the plastic engineers that designed them would probably have taken that into consideration, printed a warning label, or at the very least we wouldn't have to google for hours to figure it out!

 

[chawn]

For what's it's worth I brew mead and cider in my plastic water bottles all the time. Picked e'm up at wolly world for next to nothing.

I'm always amazed how people on this forum get so anxious about a nano gram of some plastic containment that MIGHT leech out into their beer, that may or may not be absorbed by the digestive system, that probably is only really toxic in large quantities or in minor doses on a daily basis over a long period of time, when the very product that we are making contains ALCOHOL!!

If they are ok for water, common sense should tell you that beer is probably not a stretch. I'm sure if there was any real chance someone was going to grow a third eye or develop a serious cancer from a few gallons of a lower pH substance being stored in them, the plastic engineers that designed them would probably have taken that into consideration, printed a warning label, or at the very least we wouldn't have to google for hours to figure it out!

Do you know anything about asbestos? It was everywhere including building insulation, popcorn ceilings, and even the filters of Kent cigarettes. Perhaps the people with mesothelioma thought that if it was dangerous, someone would surely tell them.
Keep in mind that the big water companies now use #1 plastics in their bottles. If there is no danger, why did they switch?
I prefer to err on the side of caution, the less exposure, the better.

 

[UpstateMike]

Consider this. If you have a plastic 5 gallon water bottle like this...

That handle area is going to be a royal pain to clean.

Also consider that plastic will scratch much easier than glass, and all sorts of bacteria that will destroy your hard work can hide in those scratches, regardless of your cleaning and sanitation procedures. For this reason, I do not even use the Better Bottles.

 

[z-bob]

Keep in mind that the big water companies now use #1 plastics in their bottles. If there is no danger, why did they switch?

Because PET bottles are cheaper?

 

[chawn]

Actually, PET is more expensive. The water companies that deliver water and reuse the bottles all made the switch a few years ago. It costed them millions.

 

[Curtis2010]

For what's it's worth I brew mead and cider in my plastic water bottles all the time. Picked e'm up at wolly world for next to nothing.

I'm always amazed how people on this forum get so anxious about a nano gram of some plastic containment that MIGHT leech out into their beer, that may or may not be absorbed by the digestive system, that probably is only really toxic in large quantities or in minor doses on a daily basis over a long period of time, when the very product that we are making contains ALCOHOL!!

If they are ok for water, common sense should tell you that beer is probably not a stretch. I'm sure if there was any real chance someone was going to grow a third eye or develop a serious cancer from a few gallons of a lower pH substance being stored in them, the plastic engineers that designed them would probably have taken that into consideration, printed a warning label, or at the very least we wouldn't have to google for hours to figure it out!

Err...actually many #7's do come with a warning on them "not to be used for any other liquid".