Newbie Help

[AussieDamo]

Hi gents,

I'm sure you get these posts constantly from panicked new Cider makers and this one will be no different haha.

The problem: No bubbles through airlock.

Just a preface as I am an Aussie all the measurements etc. in the details will be in Metric

The details: I grabbed two 50L fermenters and all the appropriate gear from my local homebrew shop a few days back. Did lots of reading on here and how to guides on cider making before setting off as well. In any case, instead of going to the expense of getting fresh orchard pressed apples/juice (wrong season here as well) I decided for my first batch that I'd try go smaller/cheaper due to the almost certainty of something going awry first time round.

-50L Fermenter
-10L of good quality organic, pasteurised, preservative free Apple Juice
-Cider/Champagne yeast
-Yeast nutrient
-added a little bit of dextroxe initially to get the potential abv to around 8%
-It's winter (actually just gone spring but still not overly warm here in my part of Aus) so I bought a heating pad and insulation jacket to ensure the temp would stay around 18-22 (celcius).

I sterilised, added juice and yeast nutrient to the fermenter, rehydrated the dry yeast in cooled, previously boiled water. The yeast had been well taken care of in terms of refrigeration and I let it come to room temperature before added to water. There was not a lot of movement/action at this stage which may be an omen. The water went cloudy and thicker but there wasn't any movement or puffing like i've seen in vids etc. After stirring and leaving to stand for 20 mins or so I pitched the Yeast and sealed the fermenter. The standard two chamber airlock seems to be in order as the water is uneven (implying that the seal is good due to the pressure difference?).

This was Lunchtime Friday. It's now Sunday night here in Melbourne and I have not spotted one bubble. I've triple checked the seal with the squeeze test and it all seems to be in order.I've got the fermenter in a dark shed which is insulated. I've got a stick on thermometer reading at 19 or so degrees (Celcius) but it was reading quite high (26C) after the first night as I think I probably shouldn't have had the heating pad on. I've been much more diligent keeping it in the good range since. Chance I've cooked/killed the yeast?

All this worrying aside, I can here a hiss when putting my ear to the Fermenter and my curiosity got the better of me and I quickly opened it up to have a look before and it has gone cloudy (it was clear/filtered juice) and I spotted active bubbling. Am I simply panicking? Is there something I can check or would it be worth pitching again after the fluctuations in temp?

Apologies for the essay gents! Please ask me clarify anything if it doesn't quite make sense.

Cheers,

Damo

 

[Kirkwooder]

I take it you took a starting gravity measurement, as you said you were looking for an 8% cider when finished. You could take another measurement to see if it has dropped any, indicating fermentation. However, I would let it ride a few more days before checking it.

Relax, have a beer, and hurry up and wait.

 

[AussieDamo]

I take it you took a starting gravity measurement, as you said you were looking for an 8% cider when finished. You could take another measurement to see if it has dropped any, indicating fermentation. However, I would let it ride a few more days before checking it.

Relax, have a beer, and hurry up and wait.

I did do a gravity measurement. I will do the check in a day or so if nothing's changed. Cheers

 

[Gavin C]

You've got 10L in a 50L FV. That's a 40L headspace in plastic. That will take a bit of time to go up in pressure before your airlock will bubble.

Sounds like things are ticking over nicely.

Cider is cloudy with a little hiss going on. Sounds perfectly normal.

Your yeast management sounds fine. I see nothing of note when rehydrating dry yeast. No fizzing like you describe. No worries there I would suggest.

Next time less headspace and you'll see more bubbling I would guess.

Also:

Welcome to the forum from a former wannabe Queenslander. Hope the cider turns out great.

 

[Maylar]

50 ltr is a damm big fermentor. If you have only 10 ltrs in it there's a lot of air space above. The liquid in the airlock has to be lifted by CO2 pressure before you'll see bubbles. The air has to be compressed, and the walls of the bucket will flex before the airlock will release pressure.

I prefer the "S" shaped airlock because you can see liquid moving through it, they're more sensitive than the 3 piece type.

Keep an eye on it and be prepared to rack to a much smaller carboy when fermentation slows down. You definitely don't want that much air in contact with your cider for very long.

 

[AussieDamo]

50 ltr is a damm big fermentor. If you have only 10 ltrs in it there's a lot of air space above. The liquid in the airlock has to be lifted by CO2 pressure before you'll see bubbles. The air has to be compressed, and the walls of the bucket will flex before the airlock will release pressure.

I prefer the "S" shaped airlock because you can see liquid moving through it, they're more sensitive than the 3 piece type.

Keep an eye on it and be prepared to rack to a much smaller carboy when fermentation slows down. You definitely don't want that much air in contact with your cider for very long.

Ok thanks for the advice gents! Really appreciate it.

I will grab myself a smaller Demi-John for racking. How long should I wait till doing so btw?

 

[Kirkwooder]

I leave mine in primary until all signs of fermentation have ceased, then rack.

 

[AussieDamo]

I leave mine in primary until all signs of fermentation have ceased, then rack.

If my airlock hasn't moved as described above but the hissing/bubbling sounds seem still to be steadily and occurring regularly how will I know when Ferment is done? The fermenter isn't clear so sight is out. i was given advice on here that the only way to tell is using a Hydrometer... To do a Hydrometer test now would mean having to open the fermenter right? I know this a controversial topic but will opening it to do a Hydro reading effect the process? How often should the Hydro test be done?

Also, I have acquired a 15L demi john to rack off into for secondary ferment once it has all but ceased in this current vessel which will hopefully avoid some of the issues described above.

Cheers

 

[Gavin C]

If my airlock hasn't moved as described above but the hissing/bubbling sounds seem still to be steadily and occurring regularly how will I know when Ferment is done? The fermenter isn't clear so sight is out. i was given advice on here that the only way to tell is using a Hydrometer... To do a Hydrometer test now would mean having to open the fermenter right? I know this a controversial topic but will opening it to do a Hydro reading effect the process? How often should the Hydro test be done?

Also, I have acquired a 15L demi john to rack off into for secondary ferment once it has all but ceased in this current vessel which will hopefully avoid some of the issues described above.

Cheers

Sounds like ongoing fermentation in a vessel with a leaking lid. The hissing is the CO2 escaping. Gotta go somewhere. No benefit to measuring gravity at this point I would suggest. Once signs of ferment ceases, rack it off the lees to the demi-john and take your gravity reading then to see where you are at.

2 birds with one stone. Your fine to open and peek in BTW (I wouldn't bother). It's not that sensitive. If fermentation is ongoing the head space will continue to fill with CO2 produced from the yeasts' metabolising the sugars.