Newbie cider sweetening question

[p40whk]

I got a great deal a couple of months back on some fresh orchard cider and decided to make a batch of hard cider.

I did not kill the wild yeast but just put it in a glass carboy and pitched the cider yeast at 72 degrees. My OG was 1.061 and it got down to .098 when I transferred it to a secondary.

I threw 6 whole cinnamon sticks in when I went to secondary and it's been in there for 6 weeks.

I'm thinking its time to bottle and I'm not going to have it carbonated so I'm guessing about 5 crushed campden tablets should kill the yeast?

If so, then do I just add a dissolved amount of brown sugar to the bottling bucket to bring the sweetness to where I want it? I'm not sure how much I need as this is my first batch.

I also have some natural caramel flavoring I was thinking about adding but again. I don't want to screw it up by over dosing the batch.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

 

[Randzor]

campden tablets will not kill off cultured yeast, unless you use it in high enough blends to affect the taste. I think you will need k-meta in addition to kill and prevent fermentation. Or pasturise it in one sitting instead, since having it still you will not need to worry about bottle bombs.

 

[TopgunTango]

British pubs typically backsweeten their ciders with stevia, Splenda, lactose or maltodextrin (all unfermentable). I personally prefer stevia as it is virtually flavorless and completely natural, although maltodextrin will give you more mouthfeel. You can add both.

If you don't mind a little bit of residual fizz, you can simply refrigerate your cider to hibernate the yeast. No need to make a fuss of actually killing the yeast, imho.

 

[p40whk]

I took a sample and tried sweetening it with Splenda and stevia and hated the aftertaste. So, I want to stay away from artificial sweeteners. I'm not sure how to pasteurize it but I think it's just heating the bottled cider to a specific temp?

I read somewhere that someone used their dishwasher with the temp boost on to pasteurize their cider but I have no idea if mine will get hot enough (not sure how hot it needs to be?)

This would be quick and easy for me if I could be sure it would work. I guess I could take a temp reading of the water to see if it's hot enough.

 

[TopgunTango]

I took a sample and tried sweetening it with Splenda and stevia and hated the aftertaste. So, I want to stay away from artificial sweeteners. I'm not sure how to pasteurize it but I think it's just heating the bottled cider to a specific temp?

I read somewhere that someone used their dishwasher with the temp boost on to pasteurize their cider but I have no idea if mine will get hot enough (not sure how hot it needs to be?)

This would be quick and easy for me if I could be sure it would work. I guess I could take a temp reading of the water to see if it's hot enough.

Alcohol will evaporate at 172 degrees, yeast begins to die at 140 degrees. You can safely steep your cider at 150-160 degrees for 2 minutes whilst stirring, it will get rid of the yeast, and evaporation will be rather minimal in that timeframe. You theoretically won't lose any alcohol content, but it might concentrate the flavors.

Unless your dishwasher has a sanitize option on it, it will never get hot enough, and nowhere near hot enough to heat the bottles all the way through without actually boiling the content (which is not wanted).

 

[Yooper]

campden tablets will not kill off cultured yeast, unless you use it in high enough blends to affect the taste. I think you will need k-meta in addition to kill and prevent fermentation. Or pasturise it in one sitting instead, since having it still you will not need to worry about bottle bombs.

K-meta IS campden- just the name for it (potassium metabisulfite).

You need sorbate to inhibit yeast.

In order for this to work, the cider must be clear, and then racked off of the lees into the sorbate/campden mixture. The "dosage" is 1/2 teaspoon of potassium sorbate per gallon and 1 campden tablet (crushed) per gallon. Those are mixed in and dissolved in about 1/4 cup boiling water. That is put into a new carboy, and the cider racked in. Wait 3 days, and then sweeten to taste. Wait three more days, and if fermentation doesn't restart, it's safe to bottle.

If you like it dry, and aren't sweetening, you don't have to do anything. Just bottle it.

 

[p40whk]

In order for this to work, the cider must be clear

Why must the cider be clear?

 

[TopgunTango]

Why must the cider be clear?

What he means is that your cider must be cleared in its current vessel and racked to another one before you follow the proceedure he described.

The reason for this is as your cider clears, the yeast cells will fall out and form the yeast cake at the bottom of your container. Potassium sorbate will inhibit yeast cell reproduction and thus prevent the creation of new yeast. It is important to note that present yeasts will continue to ferment sugars into CO2 and alcohol but it won't be noticeable, which is why you want the least amount of yeast cells present in your final product before adding k-meta and potassium sorbate.

Now, the reason why you need to add k-meta/campden tablets prior to bottling is in order to prevent oxidizing your wine/cider while you bottle it. Grapes and apples are acidic in nature and will oxidize easily if exposed to air (browning of an apple, as an example). Your wine will be still and will not produce a protective layer of CO2 while in the bottle. K-meta basically traps oxygen molecules.

Hope this explains the process further, and the science behind it.

 

[p40whk]

Thanks for the explanation, I'm always learning here!

 

[skadalajara]

What SHE means is that your cider must be cleared in its current vessel...

Fixed it for you.
Don't want to risk upsetting Frau Admin.

 

[TopgunTango]

Fixed it for you.
Don't want to risk upsetting Frau Admin.

Oops.

 

[TrickyDick]

campden tablets will not kill off cultured yeast, unless you use it in high enough blends to affect the taste. I think you will need k-meta in addition to kill and prevent fermentation. Or pasturise it in one sitting instead, since having it still you will not need to worry about bottle bombs.

Can you please clarify? I thought the Potassium Metabisulfite in the campden tabs is the same stuff as in the k-meta?

I am sure there is a certain lethal dose threshold to attain desired results, and maybe it is a dose in the "k-meta" product you mention, vs the dose in the campden tablet product.

thanks

TD

 

[AidanSavage]

Can you please clarify? I thought the Potassium Metabisulfite in the campden tabs is the same stuff as in the k-meta?

I am sure there is a certain lethal dose threshold to attain desired results, and maybe it is a dose in the "k-meta" product you mention, vs the dose in the campden tablet product.

thanks

TD

Potassium metabisulfate is used as an antioxidant. Potassium SORBATE is the killing/neutralizing chemical. For reference:

The typical dosage is 1/4 tsp (1.23 milliliters) potassium metabisulfite per six-gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75 ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation; then 1/2 tsp per six-gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. Most commercial wineries do not add more than 30ppm at bottling.

That means if you're dosing your cider with more than ~.40 milliliters/gallon of k-meta, you're overdosing it a lot. And further from the wiki:

It is a common misconception that campden tablet can be used to halt the ferment process in wine before all the available sugars are converted by the yeast, hence controlling the amount of residual sweetness in the final product. This however is not true. In order to halt fermentation, enough campden tablets would have to be added to render the wine undrinkable. Alternatively, when used in conjunction with potassium sorbate, the yeast population will be greatly reduced and prevented from reproducing. Without the addition of potassium sorbate the yeast population will only be stunned and eventually repopulate if provided with enough fermentable sugars.

You need both for a sweet still cider. Not just campden tablets or k-meta, both.

 

[Maylar]

I took a sample and tried sweetening it with Splenda and stevia and hated the aftertaste. So, I want to stay away from artificial sweeteners. I'm not sure how to pasteurize it but I think it's just heating the bottled cider to a specific temp?

Nobody hates diet soda or artificial sweeteners more than I do. Trust me on that. The only non fermentable sugar that I will use is Xylitol. Despite its chemical sounding name, Xylitol is an organic sugar alcohol made from birch trees. Tastes like sugar and leaves no aftertaste.

 

[TrickyDick]

Ok. Thanks.

As far as sweetening, I intend to use Splenda. I do not mind the taste/aftertaste and enjoy soft drinks flavored with it. Any idea on how much to add to a corny keg full of cider for a hint of balancing sweetness?

Thanks

TD

 

[MarkKF]

I just read this on-line:

Emerald Forest Xylitol is made in the USA from US-Grown Birch trees. Contains no artificial coloring, flavoring, or animal products.
Wheat-free, Gluten-free, Nut-free, Dairy-free, Soy-free. 100% vegetarian!

Now I have to find me some.

 

[AidanSavage]

Ok. Thanks.

As far as sweetening, I intend to use Splenda. I do not mind the taste/aftertaste and enjoy soft drinks flavored with it. Any idea on how much to add to a corny keg full of cider for a hint of balancing sweetness?

Thanks

TD

You'd need to pull a few samples, measure out amounts of splenda, add it into a sample, then drink it. Too sweet, use less in next sample. Not sweet enough, use more. Tastes perfect? Scale up the amounts for the full batch. Used 1 oz of sugar for a 12 ounce sample? It'd be 10 oz a gallon or so.