newb fried his yeast...

[dudeman02379]

Hi guys. I'm on my second batch of beer ever so I am making some real rookie mistakes. During this 5 gallon extract batch I used a dry yeast. In my first batch I didn't realize that the yeast needed to be hydrated according to the instructions on the packet. However the beer did ferment fine.
So in this second batch I followed the instructions on the packet which said to warm water to about 80 degrees to hydrate the yeast. I threw the yeast in water and put in on the warming center of the stove and continued doing other things. When I looked back there was steam coming from the water... it didn't boil but I'm afraid it got too hot. Its been 24 hours and there are no signs of fermentation. It looks like the yeast settled on the bottom.
Should I just pitch some more dry yeast, at room temperature this time? or should I give it another couple of days? are there any downsides to leaving the beer unfermented for that long?
Thanks guys!

 

[timrox1212]

Yea I would probably just pitch more yeast. If there is anything left it probably isn't enough.

 

[jro238]

Yeah, pitch new yeast. Yeast pretty much dies at anything above ~115-120 and it sounds like you got your water above this.

I personally just use warm water from the tap to hydrate when I occasionally use dry yeast. Alternatively, heat your water until it is the desired temp THEN add the yeast.

 

[kh54s10]

If you saw steam I would say that you did kill, at least most of the yeast. I would get some more asap and re-hydrate at about 90 degrees. Get the water to temperature THEN add the yeast.

If you re-pitch soon you should have no issues with the delay.

 

[brokebucket]

its been a while since I used dry yeast, but arent you supposed to heat the water then let it cool before rehydrating?
Using this procedure might help you from cooking the yeast in the future.

 

[BigFloyd]

its been a while since I used dry yeast, but arent you supposed to heat the water then let it cool before rehydrating?
Using this procedure might help you from cooking the yeast in the future.

Yep. I put mine in a Pyrex measuring cup, microwave it to boil for a few minutes, take it out and cover with foll (that's been sprayed w/ StarSan) and let it sit on the counter for about 90 minutes while I do the wort boil and chill.

You don't have to rehydrate dry yeast, but doing so does allow a higher percentage of the cells to survive, reproduce and work their magic.

 

[h4mmy86]

I say give it another 2 days and then repitch if nothing happens. One packet is kinda underpitching and it might take a little while to build up

 

[Whattawort]

I say give it another 2 days and then repitch if nothing happens. One packet is kinda underpitching and it might take a little while to build up

I disagree with your last sentence. A healthy packet of dry yeast should have no problems chewing up 5 gallons of beer. I rarely even rehydrate the yeast before I pitch and everything ferments out fine. A single pack of Notty fermented out one of my big beers in a week and a half. Now if you're using liquid yeast, that's an entirely different thing and you would be correct.

 

[unionrdr]

I had one packet of US-05 go through A midwest PM Traditional Stout kit in 2 weeks flat. I rehydrated it per instructions,save for the heating of the water.
Measured OG was 1.050 against a range of 1.042-1.046. That's almost a record for me & dry yeast. The tap water was about 70F,& poured the yeast onto the surface of 400mL of water in my flask. Covered with sanitized yeast packet crimped over the top & let sit 15 minutes. Then used a sanitized skewer to stir the yeast into the water. Another 15 minutes later (30 total),I stirred it again per instructions & left it about another 30 minutes. Stirred right before pitching into 64.4F wort. FG was 1.012.

 

[carton132]

I disagree with your last sentence. A healthy packet of dry yeast should have no problems chewing up 5 gallons of beer. I rarely even rehydrate the yeast before I pitch and everything ferments out fine. A single pack of Notty fermented out one of my big beers in a week and a half. Now if you're using liquid yeast, that's an entirely different thing and you would be correct.

I'm still new to this and always trying to glean as much information from other people's experiences as possible, so I'm wondering what is your definition of a big beer? I'm making a 1.087 this weekend that mrmalty.com says requires 1.6 11 gram packs of dry yeast. The yeast that I'm using comes in 10gram packs and I don't have a vacuum sealer so I might just pitch two packs and call it good. It seems to me that 1 pack would definitely be underpitching.

For new brewers it can be really confusing to see opposing claims when gravities aren't clarified, so i thought it was worth asking.

 

[BigFloyd]

I'm still new to this and always trying to glean as much information from other people's experiences as possible, so I'm wondering what is your definition of a big beer? I'm making a 1.087 this weekend that mrmalty.com says requires 1.6 11 gram packs of dry yeast. The yeast that I'm using comes in 10gram packs and I don't have a vacuum sealer so I might just pitch two packs and call it good. It seems to me that 1 pack would definitely be underpitching.

For new brewers it can be really confusing to see opposing claims when gravities aren't clarified, so i thought it was worth asking.

1.087 ale? Oh yeah, I'd rehydrate and pitch two packs on that.

FYI - If you ever get into brewing lagers, double the yeast cell count needed vs. a comparable ale.

 

[Whattawort]

I'm still new to this and always trying to glean as much information from other people's experiences as possible, so I'm wondering what is your definition of a big beer? I'm making a 1.087 this weekend that mrmalty.com says requires 1.6 11 gram packs of dry yeast. The yeast that I'm using comes in 10gram packs and I don't have a vacuum sealer so I might just pitch two packs and call it good. It seems to me that 1 pack would definitely be underpitching.

For new brewers it can be really confusing to see opposing claims when gravities aren't clarified, so i thought it was worth asking.

1.087 is definitely a big beer and I agree that 2 packets are warranted if you don't want to stress out the yeast. But, depending on the strain, some dry yeast can tolerate 8% easily with a single packet. My personal definition of a big beer is anything with a SG of over 1.075. Once you start going past that threshold you're into cellaring/extended conditioning territory. An avg beer for me is 1.055-1.065. I'm assuming a target FG of 1.010-1.012.

 

[dudeman02379]

Thanks guys. The yeast was dead for sure. I grabbed a new pack and just re aerated and pitched the new yeast. Now I'm a little nervous that the wort sat with essentially no yeast from Sunday afternoon to late Wednesday, about 3-3.5 days. I am a little nuts about sanitizing, I use starsan, but after that long I'm worried about infection. Are there any signs I should be looking for?

Edit: Here's another update in case anyone is interested. The beer is fermenting like a boss. Everything seems to look ok so far. Tomorrow I'll remove the blow off tube and switch to the regular airlock. At that point I'll see if anything smells funny but I think it's ok.

 

[dudeman02379]

Thanks guys. The yeast was dead for sure. I grabbed a new pack and just re aerated and pitched the new yeast. Now I'm a little nervous that the wort sat with essentially no yeast from Sunday afternoon to late Wednesday, about 3-3.5 days. I am a little nuts about sanitizing, I use starsan, but after that long I'm worried about infection. Are there any signs I should be looking for?

Edit: Here's another update in case anyone is interested. The beer is fermenting like a boss. Everything seems to look ok so far. Tomorrow I'll remove the blow off tube and switch to the regular airlock. At that point I'll see if anything smells funny but I think it's ok.

another update. it smells a whole lot like nose burning vinegar... pretty sure it was indeed infected. I'll give it a few days but it's probably going down the drain. I'm really disappointed.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,sounds like acetobacter fer sher.

 

[gromitdj]

Did you put your nose down there and give it a good sniff? CO2 will burn your nose too. If it really smells like vinegar, that may be something else.

 

[yeahfairly]

Let it go for 12 days and let your taste buds be the judge!

 

[bethebrew]

I'm still new to this and always trying to glean as much information from other people's experiences as possible, so I'm wondering what is your definition of a big beer? I'm making a 1.087 this weekend that mrmalty.com says requires 1.6 11 gram packs of dry yeast. The yeast that I'm using comes in 10gram packs and I don't have a vacuum sealer so I might just pitch two packs and call it good. It seems to me that 1 pack would definitely be underpitching.

For new brewers it can be really confusing to see opposing claims when gravities aren't clarified, so i thought it was worth asking.

Mr.Malty works for the yeast companies. The fudge factor you can bet is in there comes back to him as a commission. Does he take into account the 50% lethal dose (LD) of yeast pitched dry? Maybe you need to pitch 4 packs just to be sure. Oh wait you are probably in the rehydrate camp already. Ok, stick to 2 packs that will only be slightly overpitching plus the fudge factor.

People! Why do you think the Monks "underpitch" their Belgians according to Mr. Malty or Jamil? Cause they don't work for the yeast companies. They are trying to control their ferment temperatures, and know overpitching is the worst thing to do in that regard.

ps. kidding probably about Mr. Malty or Jamil. But really what kind of "fudge factor" are we looking at, and is pitching a ton of yeast always the best plan?

A fast ferment is often a hot ferment.

 

[helibrewer]

I doubt you have an Acetobacter infection. Acetobacter converts alcohol to acetic acid and you hadn't made any alcohol yet. Just ride it out.

 

[unionrdr]

He said he got snoot full of vinegar smell,so it is possible that he has the start of an acetobacter infection. Unless he's mistaking the sharp smell of co2 for vinegar?...

 

[dudeman02379]

He said he got snoot full of vinegar smell,so it is possible that he has the start of an acetobacter infection. Unless he's mistaking the sharp smell of co2 for vinegar?...

I'm really hoping that I'm just being a nervous newb. I literally took vinegar out of the cabinets and went over to the beer in the blow off jug and smelled one and the other back and forth trying to compare the smells. I really wanted to figure out that they didn't smell the same but it's a vinegar smell for sure. I still plan on waiting and seeing what happens and I'll keep posting updates. Hopefully the vinegar smell doesn't necessarily mean infection.

 

[unionrdr]

If the vinegar smell gets more pronounced rather than cleaning up,it's an acetobacter infection.

 

[feinbera]

Was there any bleach or StarSan or anything in the blow-off jug, or just water? I don't have any personal experience with this, but, isn't it entirely possible the blow-off jug has acetobacter, while the beer itself is just fine?

 

[dudeman02379]

Was there any bleach or StarSan or anything in the blow-off jug, or just water? I don't have any personal experience with this, but, isn't it entirely possible the blow-off jug has acetobacter, while the beer itself is just fine?

The jug was just a Poland spring bottle with water in it. That is an interesting theory. I just have an airlock on the carboy now and I don't want to mess with it too much. Just putting my nose to the airlock and sniffing it does still have a similar vinegar smell but who knows.

 

[dudeman02379]

Well here is the promised update.

I decided that I was going to open her up and make an on the spot decision about dumping vs bottling. I washed and sanitized everything so I was prepared and pulled the cork on the carboy. The beer did not smell like vinegar. I'm convinced that Feinberg had it right and the infection was in the blow off bottle. The beer didn't have any scum or scary stuff floating on it so I went ahead and bottled.
The beer didn't smell or taste great but maybe with a little age it'll be ok. It had a slightly sour almost acid flavor.
Fingers crossed. I'll try one in two weeks and let you know how it comes out.