New to homebrew

[wolves63]

Is it gluten free enough to not cause issues for a celiac. While I am not a celiac, I am just gluten intolerant I do have some sensitivity. I would prefer to use a liquid version if possible.

 

[DKershner]

Is it gluten free enough to not cause issues for a celiac. While I am not a celiac, I am just gluten intolerant I do have some sensitivity. I would prefer to use a liquid version if possible.

The answer is...rarely. Only one way to find out.

 

[wolves63]

true true, just don't want to be stuck with 5gallons of beer I can't drink.

 

[wolves63]

Now we have discussed yeasts and hops I would like to move on towards the grains that are GF. I know which GF materials can be used for the malting process, but I was wondering the benefits of each as well as the flavor, aroma, body, and head retention of each and overall how they effect the whole.

 

[dorklord]

Personally, I think I'm going to stick to dry yeast from here out, unless I try making a style of beer that I can't get the right dry yeast for. And then only if I try it with the 'closest thing' I can find, and even then, I'll probably do something to reduce the gluten level (make a starter using only part of vial, then build the starter up real big, then pull only part of that starter...)

But, that said, I have a trippel aging right now that was made with a vial of white labs. I'm going to try it, if it does cause a problem, I'll be quite heartbroken.

 

[wolves63]

please make sure to let me know if you have any problems.

 

[dorklord]

please make sure to let me know if you have any problems.

I will.

To be honest, from what I've seen and read, the only reason to use liquid yeasts is that a greater variety of strains are available. If I would have found the S-33 Trappist yeast before I started making that batch of trippel, I would have used it. There are so many yeast cells in a dry packet, that for ordinary gravity beers you can just rehydrate a packet and pitch. And since you can get 2 or 3 dry packets for the cost of one liquid, if you are making something that requires more yeast (very high gravity, big batch, whatever), it isn't a big deal to pitch more than one packet.

 

[aggieotis]

Now we have discussed yeasts and hops I would like to move on towards the grains that are GF. I know which GF materials can be used for the malting process, but I was wondering the benefits of each as well as the flavor, aroma, body, and head retention of each and overall how they effect the whole.

Read the top sticky in this board, that has most of the answers you're looking for. Honestly, that question is what most of us are trying to figure out right now.

Best bet for beer flavor seems to be Chestnuts, but those also appear to be retardedly expensive.

With GF grains you have to mix and match. Sorghum is a bit too strong, Rice is a bit too weak, Millet is a bit earthy, Quinoa tastes good but has the consistency of oatmeal, buckwheat some like but many are put off by the taste (myself included), Chestnuts taste perfect but don't have the enzymes needed and then there's the cost, Amaranth tastes nice but best of luck finding it, Corn honey and sugar are too fermentable on their own and will dry everything out...Essentially they all have pieces of the right stuff, but none can stand on their own.

I think you have a good start for your first batch. Keep the first one simple so that you can have a good baseline, and from there add in one or two things at a time, let us know what you like/don't like and help us make the GF Beer process even easier for the next guy* that comes along.

*Statistically though, "the next guy" is 2x more likely to be a gal than a guy.

 

[wolves63]

So pretty much, just play with it until you get what you like the best.....most likely it will be a mix of 3 or so GF grains just so that you can get the best of everything you are looking for. Does that sound about right?

 

[aggieotis]

please make sure to let me know if you have any problems.

Just so you know I've only used liquid yeasts and none of the people that have drank any of my beer have had any problem. Using liquids gives you much more variety.

Personally I found that the time I used S-05 versus the time I used WLP001 the S-05 seemed to leave more of a yeasty flavor and the WLP001 was really clean.

If you harvest your yeast at the end of a batch that was using liquid yeast then you can have 2 ppm then diluted in 5 gal which means your next batch starts faster, tastes (arguably) better, and has undetectable levels of gluten.

 

[aggieotis]

So pretty much, just play with it until you get what you like the best.....most likely it will be a mix of 3 or so GF grains just so that you can get the best of everything you are looking for. Does that sound about right?

You got it!

Personally I've found a ratio of about 1-to-1 rice-to-sorghum extract creates an excellent base for brewing. Then on top of that I malt or toast up some other GF grain to add some flavor.

Also, I've had some great success with even just going the all-extract route, so I would recommend trying that first and then branching out from there.


Barley:
87% Carbs
3% Fat
10% Protein
6% RDA Calcium
28% RDA Iron

1/1 ratio rice/sorghum extract:
90, 5, 5 and 5, 28
The ratios are really close, and the rice pulls down the mineral content of the sorghum to eliminate a lot of the 'off' or 'tang' tastes that people notice in sorghum-only beers.

 

[DKershner]

Just so you know I've only used liquid yeasts and none of the people that have drank any of my beer have had any problem. Using liquids gives you much more variety.

Personally I found that the time I used S-05 versus the time I used WLP001 the S-05 seemed to leave more of a yeasty flavor and the WLP001 was really clean.

If you harvest your yeast at the end of a batch that was using liquid yeast then you can have 2 ppm then diluted in 5 gal which means your next batch starts faster, tastes (arguably) better, and has undetectable levels of gluten.

Starters also dilute it quite a bit. I would also argue that many gluten-free foods have more gluten than the beer would.

That being said, I have only used dry yeast on my ladyfriend.

 

[dorklord]

You got it!

Personally I've found a ratio of about 1-to-1 rice-to-sorghum extract creates an excellent base for brewing. Then on top of that I malt or toast up some other GF grain to add some flavor.

Also, I've had some great success with even just going the all-extract route, so I would recommend trying that first and then branching out from there.


Barley:
87% Carbs
3% Fat
10% Protein
6% RDA Calcium
28% RDA Iron

1/1 ratio rice/sorghum extract:
90, 5, 5 and 5, 28
The ratios are really close, and the rice pulls down the mineral content of the sorghum to eliminate a lot of the 'off' or 'tang' tastes that people notice in sorghum-only beers.

Wow, that's pretty interesting to see...As just a base, what does the color come out to be on that?

I was actually going to put a whole big thing here, but now I'm thinking about it, and I might just end up starting a thread on this recipe idea...

 

[Lcasanova]

You got it!

Personally I've found a ratio of about 1-to-1 rice-to-sorghum extract creates an excellent base for brewing. Then on top of that I malt or toast up some other GF grain to add some flavor.

Also, I've had some great success with even just going the all-extract route, so I would recommend trying that first and then branching out from there.


Barley:
87% Carbs
3% Fat
10% Protein
6% RDA Calcium
28% RDA Iron

1/1 ratio rice/sorghum extract:
90, 5, 5 and 5, 28
The ratios are really close, and the rice pulls down the mineral content of the sorghum to eliminate a lot of the 'off' or 'tang' tastes that people notice in sorghum-only beers.

Thanks god someone else got around to doing this. I've been meaning to do a 1:1 ratio and see how it turns out. I thought a while back I saw people throwing around 5:1 but that just didn't make any sense to me....Thanks!

 

[DKershner]

Thanks god someone else got around to doing this. I've been meaning to do a 1:1 ratio and see how it turns out. I thought a while back I saw people throwing around 5:1 but that just didn't make any sense to me....Thanks!

Yeah, I was going to try more too, but found that BR extract is expensive as hell around here. I found a good cheap source though, so my next beer was going to be 50/50. Good to know in advance that it works.

 

[dorklord]

Yeah, I was going to try more too, but found that BR extract is expensive as hell around here. I found a good cheap source though, so my next beer was going to be 50/50. Good to know in advance that it works.

Is your source local...or?

Boy, looking at 5 bucks a bag for rice syrup solids, that would be pretty expensive...

 

[wolves63]

Alright, quick question about equipment and I should actually be almost done with all of my major questioning. I am looking to use a carboy for primary and secondary fermenting instead of a 5gal food grade bucket. With that being said I am looking at using a Breathable Silicon Carboy Hood instead of a airlock. Attached is a link so you can see it. Please give me your feedback.

 

[dorklord]

Alright, quick question about equipment and I should actually be almost done with all of my major questioning. I am looking to use a carboy for primary and secondary fermenting instead of a 5gal food grade bucket. With that being said I am looking at using a Breathable Silicon Carboy Hood instead of a airlock. Attached is a link so you can see it. Please give me your feedback.

I don't see a problem with the carboy hood, so long as it works as described, but if you are putting 5 gallons of wort into a 5 gallon carboy, or even a 6 gallon carboy, you might not have enough head space for the krausen, and that can present a problem, as krausen can easily plug an airlock (and I'm just guessing very easily plug that hood thing) and then you'll start building pressure, which can only end badly.

The nice thing about buckets is you can easily get a cheap 7.5 gallon bucket, primary in it, then transfer into a 5 gallon carboy for secondary.

If you wish to use a carboy for primary, it can be done, but you'll need something to use as a blowoff tube. There's all sorts of ways to do that, you could use a carboy cap with a bit of hose, a big enough tube to fill the opening, or use the 'cup' of a 3 piece airlock with a hose hooked over the inner part...

 

[wolves63]

main reason why i was thinking of going with a 6 gallon carboy was because of racking and the new little toy they had for quick and easy transfers. http://morebeer.com/view_product/18872/102286/

Plus most food grade buckets are 6 gallons.

 

[DKershner]

Alright, quick question about equipment and I should actually be almost done with all of my major questioning. I am looking to use a carboy for primary and secondary fermenting instead of a 5gal food grade bucket. With that being said I am looking at using a Breathable Silicon Carboy Hood instead of a airlock. Attached is a link so you can see it. Please give me your feedback.

Looks like a really expensive airlock/stopper. Not sure when you would ever want to use the open feature unless you were making a 5gal starter.

 

[DKershner]

main reason why i was thinking of going with a 6 gallon carboy was because of racking and the new little toy they had for quick and easy transfers. http://morebeer.com/view_product/18872/102286/

Plus most food grade buckets are 6 gallons.

IMO, autosiphon is better than this, and less expensive. Plus, I hate carboy caps.

You can ferment in whatever you want, as long as it's food safe. And size is less important than people think. I ferment in corny kegs, which are less than 6gal in size.

 

[DKershner]

Is your source local...or?

Boy, looking at 5 bucks a bag for rice syrup solids, that would be pretty expensive...

Portland, OR. www.brewbrothers.biz

 

[wolves63]

true true.

 

[aggieotis]

Wow, that's pretty interesting to see...As just a base, what does the color come out to be on that?

The color on this comes out pretty light, about that of Budweiser (not Bud Light). So if you want more color you'll need to toast a specialty grain. Another point to consider, sorghum LME is about 78% attenuation, and rice extract is almost 90-100% attenuation (this is a guestimate, as I can't find a real number anywhere).

I've only made one batch of beer with this ratio, but it fermented well, and the flavor profile was very clean (brewed an american light lager and it was dead-on). I'd let you try a batch, but my wife already drank it all.

Q: What does that mean for brewing?
A: Well, that means you're going to end up with a really dry beer unless you add in a few more non-fermentables (we tend to recommend using a corn-based maltodextrin).

Say the beer you're using needs 5 lbs of LME with 40 points per lbs, and an attenuation of 75%. That means before you start you have 200 points of sugar, when you're done 150 of those turn into alcohol and 50 stick around to provide sweetness, maltiness and gravity.

Well, if you're using this 1:1 ratio of rice:sorghum, then you'd be looking at

• 2.5 lbs of sorghum LME at 40 points per lbs = 100 points, 25 of which stick around.
• 2.5 lbs of rice LME at 40 points per lbs = 100 points, 10 of which stick around.
• 25 + 10 = 35...you still need another 15 points of sugar that aren't going to ferment.

That means for this ratio of rice:sorghum you'll need to add in another 15 points of maltodextrin. MD has 40 points per pound or so, which means you'll need to add about 15/40 of a pound aka 6 oz of Maltodextrin powder.

If you want to get super-technical, then the ratio of sorghum:rice:maltodextrin should be about 13:13:1 or further simplified add about 1.1 oz of maltodextrin for every pound of LME you use with a 1:1 ratio.

I hope that helps...sometimes the enginerd in me ends up confusing more than helping though.

 

[dorklord]

Portland, OR. www.brewbrothers.biz

I don't see it listed on their website

 

[Lcasanova]

IMO, autosiphon is better than this, and less expensive. Plus, I hate carboy caps.

You can ferment in whatever you want, as long as it's food safe. And size is less important than people think. I ferment in corny kegs, which are less than 6gal in size.

+1 on the autosiphon

I ferment in a bucket almost full and a carboy some headspace. I've put 5.5 gallons in a 6 gallon carboy and I've been fine. None of my gluten free beers have had the crazy krausen that others seem to have gotten...maybe that's just me or gluten free brewing in general, I don't know.

My advice is to start simple and go from there. Being new it's really hard to wait on your beer to be ready so go ahead and brew another beer immediately after the first one once you have an open fermenter. Try to build a pipeline up.

 

[dorklord]

The color on this comes out pretty light, about that of Budweiser (not Bud Light). So if you want more color you'll need to toast a specialty grain. Another point to consider, sorghum LME is about 78% attenuation, and rice extract is almost 90-100% attenuation (this is a guestimate, as I can't find a real number anywhere).

I've only made one batch of beer with this ratio, but it fermented well, and the flavor profile was very clean (brewed an american light lager and it was dead-on). I'd let you try a batch, but my wife already drank it all.

Q: What does that mean for brewing?
A: Well, that means you're going to end up with a really dry beer unless you add in a few more non-fermentables (we tend to recommend using a corn-based maltodextrin).

Say the beer you're using needs 5 lbs of LME with 40 points per lbs, and an attenuation of 75%. That means before you start you have 200 points of sugar, when you're done 150 of those turn into alcohol and 50 stick around to provide sweetness, maltiness and gravity.

Well, if you're using this 1:1 ratio of rice:sorghum, then you'd be looking at

• 2.5 lbs of sorghum LME at 40 points per lbs = 100 points, 25 of which stick around.
• 2.5 lbs of rice LME at 40 points per lbs = 100 points, 10 of which stick around.
• 25 + 10 = 35...you still need another 15 points of sugar that aren't going to ferment.

That means for this ratio of rice:sorghum you'll need to add in another 15 points of maltodextrin. MD has 40 points per pound or so, which means you'll need to add about 15/40 of a pound aka 6 oz of Maltodextrin powder.

If you want to get super-technical, then the ratio of sorghum:rice:maltodextrin should be about 13:13:1 or further simplified add about 1.1 oz of maltodextrin for every pound of LME you use with a 1:1 ratio.

I hope that helps...sometimes the enginerd in me ends up confusing more than helping though.

I'm thinking my next brew may be a strong belgian, with uh...6 lbs of sorghum and 6 lbs of rice extract. And a wee bit o candi sugar for color. I'm thinking, honestly, I don't want the beer to be dark (I'm aiming for a nice, golden color) so just a few ounces of amber sugar should do it.

Your math all makes sense to me, but I'll need to look at the expected attenuation of, say, the ingredients for a Trippel or a Golden Strong to determine what the target FG would be and work back from there...

 

[aggieotis]

I'm thinking my next brew may be a strong belgian, with uh...6 lbs of sorghum and 6 lbs of rice extract.

Just a heads up, the 1 beer I made aiming for this style ended up not working very well. I've read elsewhere too that some of the stronger belgian yeasts don't like sorghum all that much.

Then again, that batch was a 6:1 ratio of sorghum to rice, a 1:1 ratio might just trick the yeasties into behaving.

 

[DKershner]

I don't see it listed on their website

It's not, call em.

 

[dorklord]

It's not, call em.

I tried to cut the cord on my phone to make it one of those new-fangled "wireless" phones, and now it doesn't work.