New single tier AG build

[musikguru6]

The maiden voyage of mine is tonight! Doing a ten gallon batch of dunkel weizen.



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Just built this monster chiller last night. 50' of 1/2 ID tube... Huge

Assume your burners are bg14s? If so, what parts did you use to mount them to the stand?

Also - where did you purchase your equipment for the gas lines?

 

[d_boosh]

Most of the gas lines look like galvanized pipe with the yellow pipe tape for gas on the connections. The yellow flex lines are standard appliance hookups. All should be available at any hardware store.

 

[bd2xu]

Assume your burners are bg14s? If so, what parts did you use to mount them to the stand? Also - where did you purchase your equipment for the gas lines?

The HLT an bk are 14g. The mt is six inch. Used L brackets for the 14s and L brackets plus some strut for the 6. Home Depot for gas lines except I had to order the needle valves from Bayou classic.

 

[bd2xu]

Most of the gas lines look like galvanized pipe with the yellow pipe tape for gas on the connections. The yellow flex lines are standard appliance hookups. All should be available at any hardware store.

Correct, got everything at Home Depot except for the needle valves which I could not find anywhere but online. Bought them from Bayou classic. They are crucial in the set up.

 

[Daves69]

Most of the gas lines look like galvanized pipe with the yellow pipe tape for gas on the connections. The yellow flex lines are standard appliance hookups. All should be available at any hardware store.

You do not want to use galvanized pipe for gas lines, the galvanization can flake off and clog the orifices. The gas can actually erode it where there is a elbow etc.. I have never seen this happen but that's what they say and even the signage at my local Lowes says NOT to use it for gas and to use Black Iron Pipe.

 

[bd2xu]

You do not want to use galvanized pipe for gas lines, the galvanization can flake off and clog the orifices. The gas can actually erode it where there is a elbow etc.. I have never seen this happen but that's what they say and even the signage at my local Lowes says NOT to use it for gas and to use Black Iron Pipe.

Really? I thought I read it was ok. I went with it because the black is such a mess and it rusts. I will have to research that. Is it galvanized on the inside too?

 

[bd2xu]

Really? I thought I read it was ok. I went with it because the black is such a mess and it rusts. I will have to research that. Is it galvanized on the inside too?

Well I just read multiple posts on this and there is no conclusive evidence I can find. One said ok for natural gas but never for propane, another said the opposite, one said it can flake of and clog orifice, another said this is not n issue anymore... I'm not worried about it. Looks better than black, won't rust, no problems thus far. If I have a clog then I will switch it out...

 

[Daves69]

Well I just read multiple posts on this and there is no conclusive evidence I can find. One said ok for natural gas but never for propane, another said the opposite, one said it can flake of and clog orifice, another said this is not n issue anymore... I'm not worried about it. Looks better than black, won't rust, no problems thus far. If I have a clog then I will switch it out...

Yeah, chances are you will be %100 fine! I shot mine with a clear coat. I figured could not hurt anything and might help with the rust..

 

[herc1354]

I had my first failure this weekend, it would appear that the gas valve controller has failed. I was heating up struck water when I noticed that the burner was off, I reset the system and no joy, my troubleshooting has verified that the PID is working and that the the controller is receiving 24vac, still the igniter is not sparking. The controllers are throwaways, at $65.00, but it could be the gas valve, more troubleshooting will confirm that.

Good thing I have an old turkey fryer, still used the PID for temps readings and of course the pumps still functioned, so I had a successful brew day ending with 5 gallons of ferment able wort for what should be a Very tasty APA.

 

[herc1354]

Okay a little update to this....

Im using a Honeywell intermittent pilot retrofit kit, included in the kit was a new controller 8610u and gas valve plus install instructions.

I measured 28 VAC from the transformer so i decided to replace the igniter, that did not fix the problem but i did end up using a better igniter pilot setup so at least i made and improvement. More troubleshooting revealed no power to the gas valve, based on that I'm replacing the controller and the transformer. Im replacing the transformer since its putting out 28VDC rather than 24 VAC, not that i think that would kill the controller but....i also verified that the grounds are good and set-up per the instructions.

My concern is that the controller failed only after about 15 hours of use, what have I done wrong? The PID is set to on/off mode so i know it's not cycling too much, also i followed the install instructions for the controller. Perhaps its time to start gathering parts to convert to electric as I've spent over $100.00 in parts to fix my current setup.

 

[reynolds5520]

How did you measure the 28 VAC? It isn't unusual to see a higher voltage from the transformer when there isn't any load on it.

You say you have no power to the gas valve. No power to the Main Valve, Pilot Valve, or both? Are you getting pilot ignition but not main burn?

Which version of the 8610U do you have? A picture may help.



Module failure after "15 hours of use" does sound premature. You say the PID is in on/off mode but how often was it cycling the ignition? That type of module isn't intended for applications that fire frequently.

You could improve things by having the module spark and activate the Pilot Valve at the beginning of the session with a manual on/off switch. Then put the relay of your PID in line between the controller and the Main Valve. That gives all the safety of the controller to shut off the gas if the pilot goes out while reducing the cycle count for the spark circuits.

 

[herc1354]

How did you measure the 28 VAC? It isn't unusual to see a higher voltage from the transformer when there isn't any load on it. You say you have no power to the gas valve. No power to the Main Valve, Pilot Valve, or both? Are you getting pilot ignition but not main burn? Which version of the 8610U do you have? A picture may help. Module failure after "15 hours of use" does sound premature. You say the PID is in on/off mode but how often was it cycling the ignition? That type of module isn't intended for applications that fire frequently. You could improve things by having the module spark and activate the Pilot Valve at the beginning of the session with a manual on/off switch. Then put the relay of your PID in line between the controller and the Main Valve. That gives all the safety of the controller to shut off the gas if the pilot goes out while reducing the cycle count for the spark circuits.

I measured 28 VAC right from the transformer, no load. I was checking for voltage at the valve, pilot side, when the controller was being commanded to turn on by the PID, i was unable to detect any voltage. The controller i have is an auto spark standing pilot type, on call for heat the pilot is lit then the main valve opens when voltage is read back through the igniter. The cycling throughout the brew session was about three-four times during the mash to maintain temps in my HLT for the HERMS Coil.

I like your idea if I am overusing this type of controller, i have a relay and can install more switches if i have to. What controller should i use that can handle frequent switching?

 

[reynolds5520]

A hot surface igniter may be a bit better in that only the igniter part has to be replaced when it goes out vs. spark where you have to replace the module. Either way there are parts that eventually fail from cycling.

Three or four cycles an hour shouldn't have been too many though. The controller should handle hundreds of thousands of cycles. I think I saw a spec once that suggested a 300,000 cycle lifetime.

With no load, that transformer may have been OK.


Getting back to your issue though, You have a new 8610U and new pilot assembly, right? And no gas flow, no spark, right?

Have you confirmed the module is connected to both sides of your transformer? (Measured for power at the module between 24 Gnd and 24 V)

Does your version of the 8610U have any Led's?

 

[herc1354]

A hot surface igniter may be a bit better in that only the igniter part has to be replaced when it goes out vs. spark where you have to replace the module. Either way there are parts that eventually fail from cycling. Three or four cycles an hour shouldn't have been too many though. The controller should handle hundreds of thousands of cycles. I think I saw a spec once that suggested a 300,000 cycle lifetime. With no load, that transformer may have been OK. Getting back to your issue though, You have a new 8610U and new pilot assembly, right? And no gas flow, no spark, right? Have you confirmed the module is connected to both sides of your transformer? (Measured for power at the module between 24 Gnd and 24 V) Does your version of the 8610U have any Led's?

My current module is not working, no spark and no voltage to the the gas valve while it did for the first 4 brew days. Ive ordered a new controller so hopefully I'm just dealing with a faulty part from the manufacture. The old controller did NOT have fault LEDs, the new one should though.

 

[reynolds5520]

Ah, now I understand. You're waiting for it to arrive to see whether that fixes the problem. I thought you had the new one and still had trouble...

 

[herc1354]

Ah, now I understand. You're waiting for it to arrive to see whether that fixes the problem. I thought you had the new one and still had trouble...

Yep, as soon as it arrives I'm going to hook it up as I'm brewing on sunday.

I really like your idea of hooking the MV to a relay leaving PV/MV-PV to an on/off switch, switch on the controller fires off the pilot, the pilot will stay on until i turn it off or i run out of propane, the PID can then activate the MV signal.

 

[herc1354]

Okay, i replaced the control unit, sure enough that got me up and running, now my PID is dying a slow death....gerrrr, why am i now starting to regret using LP instead of electric?

 

[herc1354]

All cleaned up after a 7 hour long brew day, hit all the numbers for a very nice 10 gallon Rye IPA, OG of 1.080. I've brewed about 60 gallons so far, a few growing pains, mainly with using low pressure LP.

I'm using BG-14 burners and kegs for kettles, I'm sure a good quality triclad kettle would perform much better. I'll probably end up using a high pressure burner under the BK and stay with the low pressure for the HLT. My HLT has a HERMS coil and I'd prefer auto temp control for mash recirculating and sparging. With a High pressure burner I can use the BK to heat strike water faster as well as not exhaust the HLT water. Also I found that I need to put bleeders on my Mash pump, especially for five gallon batches, to break the air lock.

Now if I can only stop putting valves on this system, It seems every time I brew I find I need another valve for something. Future upgrades are hard pluming a tip and dump MLT and clean I place system and finally I'll end up with a stainless steal stand and or go insane....not sure what I like better, brewing beer or tinkering with my setup...

 

[herc1354]

A few upgrades to the stand

Bottom drain MLT, new false bottom ordered

Shelf for storage and pump mounting

Second faucet for filling buckets and kettle cleaning




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[herc1354]

Sooooo much easier to clean now that I can tip the MLT over. Also notice that I've relocated my pumps as well as rotated the head back to the original direction, I was amazed at how much better the pumps works in this configuration, no priming issues with MUCH higher flow. I would suggest that anyone considering mounting Chugger or March Pumps with the pump head rotated with the inlet facing down to reconsider, further eliminate as may 90 elbows as possible, gradual bends allow better flow with less restrictions.


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[herc1354]

A few upgrades to the stand

Bottom drain MLT, new false bottom ordered

Shelf for storage and pump mounting

Second faucet for filling buckets and kettle cleaning

View attachment 181822View attachment 181823View attachment 181824


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I've since rotated the heads if the pumps back to the original configuration, WAY better, no priming issues and MUCH better flow.


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[bd2xu]

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Sooooo much easier to clean now that I can tip the MLT over. Also notice that I've relocated my pumps as well as rotated the head back to the original direction, I was amazed at how much better the pumps works in this configuration, no priming issues with MUCH higher flow. I would suggest that anyone considering mounting Chugger or March Pumps with the pump head rotated with the inlet facing down to reconsider, further eliminate as may 90 elbows as possible, gradual bends allow better flow with less restrictions.


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Really that's interesting. Everything I've read has you put the inlet down, outlet up. I do have some challenges with priming though, it's better horizontal??

 

[herc1354]

Really that's interesting. Everything I've read has you put the inlet down, outlet up. I do have some challenges with priming though, it's better horizontal??

I brewed two 5gal batches yesterday, back to back, NO priming issues at all. If you look at the pump head and where the inlet is it makes the most sense to install the pump head horizontally. The impeller in these pumps is rigged, not flexible, they are NOT positive displacement pumps, more like the water pump on an car engine. Give a go to see if it improves in your system.

If you look back at my early posts you will see that I have made a lot of changes, the biggest being a bottom drain mash tun and rotating the pump heads, both mods have been the best and made for a much easy brew day.


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[bd2xu]

I will try that thanks. I recently shortened my hoses so there is no extra and it has helped a lot with priming and controlling the flow more precisely.

Another question, after brew I flush my pumps with my water hose, but when I go to brew again there is gunky water in the pump. And sometimes the pump is stuck and takes a while to start up. How do you get all of the water out of the pumps after brewing?

 

[herc1354]

I will try that thanks. I recently shortened my hoses so there is no extra and it has helped a lot with priming and controlling the flow more precisely.

Another question, after brew I flush my pumps with my water hose, but when I go to brew again there is gunky water in the pump. And sometimes the pump is stuck and takes a while to start up. How do you get all of the water out of the pumps after brewing?

The gunk is likely from the mash and or boil transfer. I've set my system up to have two pumps, one pump is ONLY ever used with clear water, the other is the Mash and wort transfer pump. During clean up I circulate my cleaning solution through the mash/wort pump, then flush with clean water. In the winter time I blow out the pump heads with compressed air after I'm finished with cleanup.

I found out the hard way that any and all sticky liquid needs to be cleaned from the entire brew rig, if not critters and mold is sure to follow.


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