New School, Old School, and Superstition

[eric19312]

All this just goes to show that while certain parts of the process are to a certain specification to the particular brew involved, how one gets there can be open to interpretation. That's why there's so much discussion/debate in various threads concerning a particular brew &/or part of the process. I may do it one way, but the next person may do it a bit different way. Are both wrong? Are both correct? That depends on how it relates to how you brew beer. This is the paradox where home brewing is concerned. Not always so at commercial levels. So commercial beers by definition can't always be used as a yardstick to measure a home brew's quality, or lack thereof. The basic processes are similar, but different due to the scales & repeatability involved.

FWIW I have visited a number of craft breweries and a couple mega breweries. I can say that the differences in processes carried out at these breweries seem every bit as varied as what I see in home breweries. My point is that most (all) of the hard science in brewing is targeted at commercial breweries and even with that science there the idea of best practices is open to interpretation.

 

[cernst151]

Now this is a great thread and I will follow it. I started brewing in 1994 and I've seen a lot of bullspit come and go. I remember a couple from back then.

Adding plain white sugar makes your beer really hot like gasoline.

Using malt extract for bottling primer makes a more dense, creamier head than using plain sugar. This one was told to me by a LHBS owner. (I think I've actually argued this one in the past lol)
...

I've actually moved to only using DME for priming. When I first heard about this as an option I did 3 batches of different styles of beer and on each I split the batch at bottling and bottled half with priming sugar and half with light DME. This was probably my most scientifically performed and tested experiment in hombrewing (since it's so easy to control the variables) and every person who tried them side by side said the DME gave a creamier, denser head and more professional mouthfeel.

Argue that one as much as you like I'm never going back to priming sugar.

 

[cernst151]

what exactly causes tannins to be extracted through squeezing? Is this a mechanical issue or a chemical one? Why wouldn't the weight of a large batch of grain extract tannins if the cause was mechanical? And if the extraction was caused chemically then what is the catalyst that causes the extraction when you squeeze the grains? No irony intended - just curious.

What I read (can't remember where) when I first started experimenting with sack squeezing is that at commercial scale the weight of the tons of grains on the top can squeeze out tannins mechanically from the grains at the bottom. Of course we could never apply tons of pressure on a homebrew scale so the only things we have to worry about are heat and PH.

At least until we learn later that we don't need to worry about heat and PH and it's actually all about evaporation rate and tidal forces from the moon.

 

[Remmy]

A few ideas I was given when I started were followed but not all.
I never used secondary unless I was adding fruit, oak, bulk aging, etc. I stopped rehydrating my yeast. I never worried about trub in the fermentor and was never told to worry. I do vorlauf and always will. I never fly sparge but consider it from time to time as my efficiency is poor. I was told to chill as quickly as possible, I still try.

I spin around 7 times before I pitch my yeast, every time. No issues here.

That's because you're mashing for 60 minutes and YOU NEED TO MASH FOR 90! Gosh, everyone knows that. /newschool

 

[bernardsmith]

I agree with the people saying there are so many variables that a set of best practices is impossible to define.

But surely this is not simply about "best practices" or "good practices" but about the science that undergirds brewing. Good practice and best practice revolve around the art of brewing but the science of brewing is presumably subject to laws of chemistry and micro-biology and physics and the like. Those don't change. Our knowledge of those processes may and certainly my own knowledge of brewing science can be written on the back of a postage stamp and that would still leave plenty of space but the chemical and and biological processes on this planet are quite immutable, are they not?

If - all other things being equal - high pH (low acidity) allows tannins to leach out then low acidity allows tannins to leach out and good practice (or best practice) would be to employ ways that increase the acidity of the wort (or water) or to inhibit the leaching of tannins even when acidity is low or to use grains with inherently low levels of tannins. But whatever "good practices" are used the underlying issue would be to understand the cause of - in this example - the extraction of tannins and a preference to inhibit their excessive (however that is defined) utilization.
And I say all this as a rank beginner to brewing but a naive and committed believer in the science AND the art of fermenting fruits and grains.

 

[stu4stew]

I think the biggest thing to remember is to take as accurate of notes as possible as often as possible

 

[elkshadow]

I've actually moved to only using DME for priming. When I first heard about this as an option I did 3 batches of different styles of beer and on each I split the batch at bottling and bottled half with priming sugar and half with light DME. This was probably my most scientifically performed and tested experiment in hombrewing (since it's so easy to control the variables) and every person who tried them side by side said the DME gave a creamier, denser head and more professional mouthfeel.

Argue that one as much as you like I'm never going back to priming sugar.

And this just proves the original point of this thread. After all the [Sagan] millions and millions and millions [/Sagan] of gallons of beer that have been produced and consumed there is still no fact-based consensus on most of what we do as brewers. You believe that DME gives you smaller bubbles and better head and I'm happy for you (not being snarky I truly am) and I have primed with everything I can think of and haven't noticed any difference at all.

I can find lots of people and sources reporting there's no advantage to DME and I can find the same saying what you're saying. I think that's the point of the thread. The OP's original questions:

How much of what we do really makes a difference in the finished quality of our beers?

How much is conventional wisdom taken as gospel?

What factors are we still underestimating?

Where have thousands of years of practice gotten us?

How can we have gotten so far and yet really know so few facts?

Very interesting topic IMO

Edited to add: When people ask me if brewing is hard, I tell them the hardest part of brewing is arguing about it on the internet.

 

[unionrdr]

Low PH, so far as neutral of 5.2 is concerned, doesn't leach tannins. A little higher or lower than 5.2 seems fine in my experiences. But high PH is definitely tannin territory. It used to be thought that too much water in the mash would Change PH. I don't think so, but I do stick to 1.25-1.5 quarts of spring water per pound of grains. So sticking loosely to some simple rules of this biochemistry we call brewing will usually yield good results. Every game has some basic rules.

 

[NathPowe]

Very interesting topic IMO

Edited to add: When people ask me if brewing is hard, I tell them the hardest part of brewing is arguing about it on the internet.

I agree. Really interesting thread topic, and props to the OP (seriously).

We can argue day long about most things brewing-related, but I think we can all agree that the back-flip will get you at least three extra gravity points.

Cheers.

 

[cernst151]

Very interesting topic IMO

I agree, I love this stuff. The perpetual Art v. Science debate on brewing. The beauty of it is that as long as you're getting an end product you enjoy it really doesn't matter.

 

[balrog]

Loving the topic. Personally, I've yet to develop any reasonable reproducible results (noob) to begin thinking about testing bag squeezing or priming differences.

This spinning thing, though; are we really going to limit ourselves to single axis of rotation without compensation for Coriolis?