New Lalbrew Farmhouse yeast

[dmtaylor]

Getting back to the yeast.
Is there a Beersmith file for it somewhere, I dont seem to see it in my list of ingredients?
I have all others from Lallemand.
I'm thinking of trying it in a De Ranke XX Bitter clone attempt, like below but with the farmhouse yeast instead.
I already tried with with a MJ Wit yeast and T-58 which were both good but I think the farmhouse has the potential to make an even better beer.
There's a lot of discussion scattered throughout the internet on what yeast to use; T-58 and Wit yeasts don't attenuate enough and traditional Saison yeasts go too far so maybe this will hit the sweet spot. Staying true to the information given from the brewery they use 100% pilsner so no cheating allowed by drying it out with a sugar addition

I don't use Beersmith so I can't comment on that piece. Just wanted to comment on the recipe and the rest of it...

I think Farmhouse could be an ideal solution if you are looking for something in between saison with high attenuation and a regular low attenuation yeast. I would still recommend a long mash rest at 65 C for at least 90 minutes, maybe even longer, to ensure the best attenuation if you will not be adding any simple sugar. If this doesn't work, then consider trying BE-256 or M31 which are similar yeasts that will attenuate a notch or two more but without becoming overly dry as you might expect from a hardcore saison yeast such as Belle or Wyeast 3711 which would be at the far extreme for attenuation.

 

[Shenanigans]

I don't use Beersmith so I can't comment on that piece. Just wanted to comment on the recipe and the rest of it...

I think Farmhouse could be an ideal solution if you are looking for something in between saison with high attenuation and a regular low attenuation yeast. I would still recommend a long mash rest at 65 C for at least 90 minutes, maybe even longer, to ensure the best attenuation if you will not be adding any simple sugar. If this doesn't work, then consider trying BE-256 or M31 which are similar yeasts that will attenuate a notch or two more but without becoming overly dry as you might expect from a hardcore saison yeast such as Belle or Wyeast 3711 which would be at the far extreme for attenuation.

Yes I've seen BE-256 been suggested for this before but I don't have any on hand.
I do however have Farmhouse and M31 though; maybe I should do a split batch

 

[dmtaylor]

I do have Farmhouse and M31 ; maybe I should do a split batch

YES YOU SHOULD!

 

[Pehlman17]

Getting back to the yeast.
Is there a Beersmith file for it somewhere, I dont seem to see it in my list of ingredients?
I have all others from Lallemand.
I'm thinking of trying it in a De Ranke XX Bitter clone attempt, like below but with the farmhouse yeast instead.
I already tried with with a MJ Wit yeast and T-58 which were both good but I think the farmhouse has the potential to make an even better beer.
There's a lot of discussion scattered throughout the internet on what yeast to use; T-58 and Wit yeasts don't attenuate enough and traditional Saison yeasts go too far so maybe this will hit the sweet spot. Staying true to the information given from the brewery they use 100% pilsner so no cheating allowed by drying it out with a sugar addition

View attachment 876243

According to De Ranke brewer Nino Bacelle, their house pitch is a 50/50 blend of T-58 and S-33. Which I’ve always assumed is where the whole S-33 as a Belgian strain might have come from. (I believe it was the Craft Beer & Brewing podcast, or possibly an article of theirs where he said this.)

 

[Halfakneecap]

I just tried another bottle of this, about 7 weeks after I brewed it, and I gotta say I love this yeast. At least with the way I brewed it, it's the saison flavors I love in just the right proportions. Granted, I used a decent amount of table sugar to make up for the fact that it doesn't have the STA-1 gene, but the dryness and hop bitterness is amazing (I know "bitterness" isn't an aspect of the yeast itself, but the dryness and esters of the yeast really help the bitterness, which is 28 IBUs in my case, really come out in a nice pleasant way).

This is definitely a yeast I plan to use again. Maybe a lot of times more.

I agree. I still like WY 3726, and will still use it, but i do like the farmhouse so far. I also like to leave the for a good few weeks, so i'll re try in a few weeks, but, very happy so far.

I used some dextrose, mainly for a boost in alcohol, which i normally don't do. I usually do 4% saison that 'im very happy with, but this one i thought i'd boost up to 5.7%. Worked great.

I've done long low temp mashes ( 62c x 90 mins plus ) without simple sugars and had beers finish around 1.005, so i think this yeast could easily do that.

Controversial maybe but i don't have any issues with STA1. I use these yeast strains with no issue of any kind of cross contamination etc. No issues for years.

 

[dmtaylor]

According to De Ranke brewer Nino Bacelle, their house pitch is a 50/50 blend of T-58 and S-33. Which I’ve always assumed is where the whole S-33 as a Belgian strain might have come from. (I believe it was the Craft Beer & Brewing podcast, or possibly an article of theirs where he said this.)

Really? Then they surely add simple sugar, because neither of those yeasts has great attenuation. Or they brew to high OG to get the ABV they want because they'll end up with high FG.

 

[Pehlman17]

Really? Then they surely add simple sugar, because neither of those yeasts has great attenuation. Or they brew to high OG to get the ABV they want because they'll end up with high FG.

This is their Tripel recipe. I don’t have a direct XX Bitter recipe. Definitely a hefty dose of sugar.

 

[dmtaylor]

"or your favorite Belgian ale strain" is the only thing that makes those recipe statistics possible.

 

[Shenanigans]

Well anyway I'm going to try a 100% pilsner malt split batch with farmhouse and M31 and see how they perfom.
I won't get to it until late Summer or early Autumn so I'll report back in September or October.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Controversial maybe but i don't have any issues with STA1. I use these yeast strains with no issue of any kind of cross contamination etc. No issues for years.

It's one of those things like driving without a seat belt - you can be fine for years, but then when it becomes a problem, it's a Big Problem.

Although arguably it's worse for commercial breweries because of the greater scale they operate at, and the whole legal issue of selling bottles to consumers and then the bottles explode.

 

[Pehlman17]

"or your favorite Belgian ale strain" is the only thing that makes those recipe statistics possible.

I know he says they step mash as well, but I see what you mean. I don’t see how they’re getting 91% attenuation with these strains. Maybe there’s something else he didn’t divulge.

 

[TwitchellBrew]

View attachment 876311

This is their Tripel recipe. I don’t have a direct XX Bitter recipe. Definitely a hefty dose of sugar.

Where was this recipe pulled from? I as there input from Nino on the yeast? I listened to the podcast with him as well and I could swear he said they use a dry yeast from fermentis that ferments “all the way”. It’s possible that I’m thinking of a different brewer and now I need to go back and check. But when I heard that I thought wb-06. Can’t think of another fermentis yeast that ferments that dry. I haven’t had XX bitter in a while. It’s a great beer but I don’t remember it being super estery. Farmhouse to me has a bit more character.

 

[Pehlman17]

Where was this recipe pulled from? I as there input from Nino on the yeast? I listened to the podcast with him as well and I could swear he said they use a dry yeast from fermentis that ferments “all the way”. It’s possible that I’m thinking of a different brewer and now I need to go back and check. But when I heard that I thought wb-06. Can’t think of another fermentis yeast that ferments that dry. I haven’t had XX bitter in a while. It’s a great beer but I don’t remember it being super estery. Farmhouse to me has a bit more character.

Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine. Nino is listed as the author of the recipe. There’s another article about the beer itself (which I linked, not sure if there’s a paywall).

 

[Shenanigans]

Sorry for taking this thread off topic by bringing people down the XX Bitter rabbit hole
I suggest to continue the conversation in the below thread, a lot of the stuff mentioned in the posts here was already discussed there.
Including some incorrect assumptions from me at the time

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/choice-for-belgian-ipa-de-ranke-xx-bitter-inspired-beer.666998/

There is also apparently a XXX Bitter with 50% more hops.
This is what I was aiming for in the past but I'll go for the original when doing the split batch with Farmhouse and M31.

https://www.deranke.be/en/bier/xxx-bitter

 

[Halfakneecap]

I agree. I still like WY 3726, and will still use it, but i do like the farmhouse so far. I also like to leave the for a good few weeks, so i'll re try in a few weeks, but, very happy so far.

I used some dextrose, mainly for a boost in alcohol, which i normally don't do. I usually do 4% saison that 'im very happy with, but this one i thought i'd boost up to 5.7%. Worked great.

I've done long low temp mashes ( 62c x 90 mins plus ) without simple sugars and had beers finish around 1.005, so i think this yeast could easily do that.

Controversial maybe but i don't have any issues with STA1. I use these yeast strains with no issue of any kind of cross contamination etc. No issues for years.

Re trying a few weeks later. Really like this yeast for the dark saison i threw it at. I get a small amount of bubblegum now, which im enjoying in a dark saison. Very happy

 

[Halfakneecap]

I'll be brewing a lighter version for session drinking. I rarely brew over 4%, this one ended up 5.5% or so.

I used 120g of sinimar, which is a freaking lot, but i really like it. Hardly any flavour, but i like the deep colour. I found some more sinimar online. I have to buy a full litre, but ive had my current bottle for maybe 10 years in the fridge, and apart from being a little clumpy, its fine still. I'll brew a few schwarzbier as well

 

[Pennine]

Anyone let farmhouse run a little warm during the ferment? Fusels?

 

[Halfakneecap]

Anyone let farmhouse run a little warm during the ferment? Fusels?

I pitched at 23c, then upped every day to 28c. No fusels. I get lovely esters but not crazy and a touch of bubblegum. I really like it

 

[worlddivides]

Anyone let farmhouse run a little warm during the ferment? Fusels?

I pitched at 25C (78F) and fermented at 24C (76C) to 26C (79F), and no fusels.

 

[Sipina]

Well anyway I'm going to try a 100% pilsner malt split batch with farmhouse and M31 and see how they perfom.
I won't get to it until late Summer or early Autumn so I'll report back in September or October.

Looking forward to read about it. Cheers!

 

[Steveruch]

I pitched a pack of this into a 3.25 gallon batch at 1.052 this morning. At ten hours it was burping through the airlock every 3.5 seconds.

 

[Pennine]

I pitched a rehydrated pack of Farmhouse Sunday evening in a 1.062 saison. It was actively fermenting within an hour, and very active. I started at 16c and let it rise to ambient basement temps. It's tuesday morning and there is no activity. Could it be done already? In 36 hours?

 

[Sipina]

I pitched a rehydrated pack of Farmhouse Sunday evening in a 1.062 saison. It was actively fermenting within an hour, and very active. I started at 16c and let it rise to ambient basement temps. It's tuesday morning and there is no activity. Could it be done already? In 36 hours?

The bulk of fermentation could indeed be done. I have not fermented higher gravities then 1.046 with farmhouse yeast, however usually it is very fast. Just very recently it hard fermented from1.046 to 1.008 high glucose wort in about 26 hours from pitching the yeast.

EDIT:

I pitched a rehydrated pack of Farmhouse Sunday evening in a 1.062 saison. It was actively fermenting within an hour, and very active. I started at 16c and let it rise to ambient basement temps. It's tuesday morning and there is no activity. Could it be done already? In 36 hours?

Scratch that, apparently they were on lunch break. It's bubbling away again like mad.

 

[Pennine]

I pitched a rehydrated pack of Farmhouse Sunday evening in a 1.062 saison. It was actively fermenting within an hour, and very active. I started at 16c and let it rise to ambient basement temps. It's tuesday morning and there is no activity. Could it be done already? In 36 hours?

Scratch that, apparently they were on lunch break. It's bubbling away again like mad.

 

[Steveruch]

I bottled my saison yesterday. 1.052-1.007. It has that peppery edge I like in saison that I used to get with belle saison.

 

[Pennine]

I bottled my saison yesterday. 1.052-1.007. It has that peppery edge I like in saison that I used to get with belle saison.

I can't wait to take a sample of mine. I am glad it's showing similarities to Belle for you. That's my favorite saison.

 

[Sipina]

I bottled my saison yesterday. 1.052-1.007. It has that peppery edge I like in saison that I used to get with belle saison.

I get similar saison style phenolic character like belle but with more fruitines which is what I missed a bit with belle. This might be the reason they discontinoued the 11g belle packets.

I will be bottling a saison style with farmhouse to which I added orange peel for the first time and coriander which I had used before with good results. I feel the orangle peel will blend in nicely.

 

[Pennine]

I get similar saison style phenolic character like belle but with more fruitines which is what I missed a bit with belle. This might be the reason they discontinoued the 11g belle packets.

I will be bottling a saison style with farmhouse to which I added orange peel for the first time and coriander which I had used before with good results. I feel the orangle peel with blend in nicely.

Just took a sample tonight. I agree similar to Belle but more fruit and not quite as dry. It's very good though. I do get a lot of pepper and banana.

 

[Sipina]

Just took a sample tonight. I agree similar to Belle but more fruit and not quite as dry. It's very good though. I do get a lot of pepper and banana.

Great to hear! IME the banana tends to dissapear after being in the bottle for some time.

 

[Pennine]

Kegged the saison up, interesting that they say no H2S as it was sulfury as a lager to me but quickly dissipated.

The banana definitely dropped out and the pepper pops out more. Seems like a very good saison option. I am hoping to carb this one up high and it will lighten it out a bit.

It went from 1.062 to 1.008 so a nice 7.2% dangerously easy drinking saison.