New digital solid state power relay for boil regulation

[stickyfinger]

Check out this new control for varying the boil rate, pretty neat.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=444

 

[nebulous]

nice timing on this one. I was going to build a pwm circuit to control my boil but this will be much easier and add some bling to my panel with the digital percentage display. It will be a bit until I can brew with it but I will post back when it comes in and I install it into my panel

 

[penner]

Thanks for the heads up. Just ordered one.

 

[BigFloppy]

hmmm, interesting ...

 

[mikescooling]

Why did you post this? I promised myself I would stop spending on my panel. Look what you did. I'm getting a credit card now.. Dam you... jk

 

[stickyfinger]

Sorry for tempting you! I was just asking Auber about the JSL-73B timer and was having a discussion with one of the guys there. He happened to mention the new variable control, so I thought I'd post it on this site and also at theelectricbrewery.com forum. I know a lot of people are interested in a "knob" adjustment for the boil. I think this thing actually is altering the electrical to the element to adjust the boil as well. I haven't looked at it too closely.

 

[Deece]

....And the build changes yet again. Been debating on trying to go with a
Knob for the boil instead of pid this settles it.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jpalarchio]

Saw this the other day and thought it looked interesting.

Can anyone help translate what they're talking about with the two modes and what they're actually doing?

The second option ("time proportional") sounds like PWM but I'm not getting what the "burst firing" really means.

 

[adam01]

Interesting...

I'm using his PID to control my HLT. The PID has a setting to set the maximum percentage of on time. I use this to limit the amount of time I pull more than 15a from
the power connection.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

PID is only $10 more, and you can do either % or temp set.... but since these are sold out I guess a lot of peeps just want PWM. Must be something about the knob I just don't understand.

 

[Brettomomyces]

PID is only $10 more, and you can do either % or temp set.... but since these are sold out I guess a lot of peeps just want PWM. Must be something about the knob I just don't understand.

I agree with you on this, I'd rather have a Pid controller for the two diff modes and temp stands. But for somebody who just wants a simple Bk control panel this is a good alternative.

 

[BTizo]

The knob provides instantaneous response. Turn and it adjusts. With a PID for the boil you need to adjust it and wait for it to accept and adjust itself.

It's a small thing, but pretty cool. I have a PID for my HLT and a knob for the boil, great combo.

 

[dyqik]

Saw this the other day and thought it looked interesting.

Can anyone help translate what they're talking about with the two modes and what they're actually doing?

The second option ("time proportional") sounds like PWM but I'm not getting what the "burst firing" really means.

The burst firing mode switches between on and off at the zero points of the AC cycle, and each cycle is either wholly on of off, with the power being set by the number of on cycles in each 100 cycle timeframe, rather than the length of time that the the output is on in each timeframe (PWM or the time proportional mode). This means that there aren't any transients which can occur when you switch in the middle of an AC cycle. This can help improve the lifetime of SSRs and heating elements.

 

[passedpawn]

The burst firing mode switches between on and off at the zero points of the AC cycle, and each cycle is either wholly on of off, with the power being set by the number of on cycles in each 100 cycle timeframe, rather than the length of time that the the output is on in each timeframe (PWM or the time proportional mode). This means that there aren't any transients which can occur when you switch in the middle of an AC cycle. This can help improve the lifetime of SSRs and heating elements.

That's still PWM (if I'm understanding you).

 

[atoughram]

Thats sweet!

 

[orangehero]

Using a SYL-2352 it takes me only a few seconds to adjust the manual PWM output. After entering the change SV mode, if you press the "A/M" key you can select which digit to change...so for example you can instantly select 100% or adjust in 10% intervals. Plus you have temperature display and optional PID control mode. The benefits of those two features are worth at least the $13.55 price difference.

This reminds me of the voltmeter and ammeter that people put in their panels.

 

[stickyfinger]

Could PIDs do that if designed differently? Would most applications not work well with that kind of mode?

 

[dyqik]

Could PIDs do that if designed differently? Would most applications not work well with that kind of mode?

It will only work well with a resistive type load. If you have an inductive or capacitive load (where the current and voltage aren't in phase), then it wouldn't work right, and could be actively harmful, particularly as it has a very high switching rate.

 

[stlbeer]

The knob provides instantaneous response. Turn and it adjusts. With a PID for the boil you need to adjust it and wait for it to accept and adjust itself.

Not alway. With Auber PIDs in manual mode a simple push of up or down button changes the percentage of power within the duty cycle.

The only way I see this having an advantage is if your approaching a boil over and you need to cut the power to the element quickly - which is easy enough to do with the switch/contactor you put in between the controller and the element. Which you would do because that's good design.

 

[Minbari]

The burst firing mode switches between on and off at the zero points of the AC cycle, and each cycle is either wholly on of off, with the power being set by the number of on cycles in each 100 cycle timeframe, rather than the length of time that the the output is on in each timeframe (PWM or the time proportional mode). This means that there aren't any transients which can occur when you switch in the middle of an AC cycle. This can help improve the lifetime of SSRs and heating elements.

It does say you have to make sure you have zero-crossing SSrs for that mode too.

That's still PWM (if I'm understanding you).

it is, but it is a speciallized version. it uses the pulse width of the incoming wave (60 or 50 hz) to determine it instead of an internal clock. as the above poster said, by switching a tthe zero voltage part of the wave, you dont have any turn on or turn off issues (like inductive kick)

 

[passedpawn]

Not alway. With Auber PIDs in manual mode a simple push of up or down button changes the percentage of power within the duty cycle.

The only way I see this having an advantage is if your approaching a boil over and you need to cut the power to the element quickly - which is easy enough to do with the switch/contactor you put in between the controller and the element. Which you would do because that's good design.

Doesn't the Auber PIDs require a temp sensor attached in order to enable the output, even in manual mode? I think that has been a pain for me in the past.

 

[orangehero]

Doesn't the Auber PIDs require a temp sensor attached in order to enable the output, even in manual mode? I think that has been a pain for me in the past.

Yes, but if you have a temp sensor why would you ever need it unplugged?

One other benefit of running the PID is that you can set it to automatically reach and hold a temperature just below boiling and trip the alarm as soon as it does so. That way you can let it heat up on its own, walk away and not worry about a boilover. When the alarm goes off you can go babysit the boil at your convenience.

The only way I see this having an advantage is if your approaching a boil over and you need to cut the power to the element quickly - which is easy enough to do with the switch/contactor you put in between the controller and the element. Which you would do because that's good design.

You can do it from the PID as well. Just hit the "A/M" button and you'll instantly go to automatic mode...as long as your SV is below boiling the output will drop.

 

[passedpawn]

Yes, but if you have a temp sensor why would you ever need it unplugged?

One other benefit of running the PID is that you can set it to automatically reach and hold a temperature just below boiling and trip the alarm as soon as it does so. That way you can let it heat up on its own, walk away and not worry about a boilover. When the alarm goes off you can go babysit the boil at your convenience.

I use a PID for the HLT. But I prefer not to use one for the BK. I don't like the user interface on the Auber PIDs, and I don't like switching from A->M. I did this for about 3 years until I added a proportional SSR and a dial. I'll probably get rid of that, now, and add this new Auber gadget.

 

[stickyfinger]

It will only work well with a resistive type load. If you have an inductive or capacitive load (where the current and voltage aren't in phase), then it wouldn't work right, and could be actively harmful, particularly as it has a very high switching rate.

I guess that's why PIDs aren't wired this way usually. Most of the time you aren't controlling a resistive load.

 

[yogensha]

Using a SYL-2352 it takes me only a few seconds to adjust the manual PWM output. After entering the change SV mode, if you press the "A/M" key you can select which digit to change...so for example you can instantly select 100% or adjust in 10% intervals

Damn, I really should have paid closer attention to that section of the manual.

 

[quantrellc]

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for this device for a boil kettle. I just got one in the mail today along with their 40 amp SSR and heat sink. I'm having a 240v 30 amp gfci outlet wired into my basement next week and plan on building a box with a dryer cord to that outlet and an dryer outlet mounted on the box that I can plug my 5500 watt boil kettle element into. I've looked through many diagrams on here but haven't found anything specifically for this device. Thanks in advance for any help

 

[stlbeer]

There's a wiring example in the instruction manual of how to connect it to power and an SSR.

Simply connect your element to your SSR and supply power to the controller, which takes either 120 or 240v AC and your set.

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/DSPR1 manual_V1.pdf

 

[quantrellc]

One other quick question, the manual says to connect terminal 9&10 of the DSPR1 to AC power so would it be best to land my incoming power on term strips then connect to the DSPR1 terminals from one leg of the 240 or connect one terminal to one leg and the other terminal to the other leg. Thanks again for the help

 

[Docbruw]

The way it reads to me is it gives a smoother power to the element which gives you a consistent rolling boil unlike a PID where the boil surges as the element is turned on and off. Is that the way the way you read it?

 

[augiedoggy]

The knob provides instantaneous response. Turn and it adjusts. With a PID for the boil you need to adjust it and wait for it to accept and adjust itself.

It's a small thing, but pretty cool. I have a PID for my HLT and a knob for the boil, great combo.

If thats the case then how is something like that with that cost superior to something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140553987088?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[drewmedic23]

If thats the case then how is something like that with that cost superior to something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140553987088?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Because you get more buttons and more numbers

I have looked into the same SSVR and the only issue I see is that the power isn't linear (because of the sine waveform). I am just adding this controller onto my setup and adding it onto the SSR already in place.

So I guess one advantage is you don't have to add in another SSR, you can just use the one you already have

 

[doug293cz]

I have looked into the same SSVR and the only issue I see is that the power isn't linear (because of the sine waveform). I am just adding this controller onto my setup and adding it onto the SSR already in place.

So I guess one advantage is you don't have to add in another SSR, you can just use the one you already have

Can you explain how that would work? I thought the phase triggering circuitry was built into the brick, so the potentiometer won't do anything for a regular SSR. A diagram of how you would connect things together would be great. I ask because I might what to use something like this in preference to PID manual control when I go electric (I'll have a single vessel, recirculating e-BIAB eventually.)

Brew on

 

[Minbari]

Can you explain how that would work? I thought the phase triggering circuitry was built into the brick, so the potentiometer won't do anything for a regular SSR. A diagram of how you would connect things together would be great. I ask because I might what to use something like this in preference to PID manual control when I go electric (I'll have a single vessel, recirculating e-BIAB eventually.)

Brew on

That is right, a regular SSR is either on or off. A pot wouldn't do anything more than turn it on and off within the hysteresis of the input circuit

 

[drewmedic23]

Can you explain how that would work? I thought the phase triggering circuitry was built into the brick, so the potentiometer won't do anything for a regular SSR. A diagram of how you would connect things together would be great. I ask because I might what to use something like this in preference to PID manual control when I go electric (I'll have a single vessel, recirculating e-BIAB eventually.)

Brew on

From what I understood after reading the instruction manual, this unit is esentially a manual mode PID on steroids. This unit cycles the PID several times a second (burst mode) rather than the traditional 2 second (or greater) cycles. This allows you to use the same SSR you would use with a traditional PID rather than getting a SSVR. A pot uses a SSVR to regulate power output but the output isn't linear and a digital display looks cooler

I am planning on wiring it by having a two way switch with two NO and two NC contacts so that the SSR is only connected to either the PID or the digital boiler. Ill draw up a diagram and attach pictures when I get it set up.

I currently use a single vessel, recirculating e-BIAB and Ill throw some of those pictures in too.
I just placed the order today so stay tuned

 

[doug293cz]

From what I understood after reading the instruction manual, this unit is esentially a manual mode PID on steroids. This unit cycles the PID several times a second (burst mode) rather than the traditional 2 second (or greater) cycles. This allows you to use the same SSR you would use with a traditional PID rather than getting a SSVR. A pot uses a SSVR to regulate power output but the output isn't linear and a digital display looks cooler

I am planning on wiring it by having a two way switch with two NO and two NC contacts so that the SSR is only connected to either the PID or the digital boiler. Ill draw up a diagram and attach pictures when I get it set up.

I currently use a single vessel, recirculating e-BIAB and Ill throw some of those pictures in too.
I just placed the order today so stay tuned

Ok, I got it now. Part of my confusion was I thought the DSPR1 was simply an SSVR with a built in digital display. I have a better understanding of what the DSPR1 actually is.

Brew on

 

[augiedoggy]

Because you get more buttons and more numbers

I have looked into the same SSVR and the only issue I see is that the power isn't linear (because of the sine waveform). I am just adding this controller onto my setup and adding it onto the SSR already in place.

So I guess one advantage is you don't have to add in another SSR, you can just use the one you already have

Then why not just go with a $20 pid with even more functionality and the same manual control feature??

And you get more buttons and lights to impress others! You can find them for higher prices too it thats important to your bragging routine... (I am kidding)

Heres another option I found... Its available with the faceplate for the display panel too for less from other sellers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-100...153?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259565ce91

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-100...513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ec21b4e1

 

[drewmedic23]

I saw that one on eBay. I'm sure it would work very well but there is the extra board to mount to the heat sink and some extra wiring involved. If I had a traditional 3 tier system, this would work well since I would be powering different heating elements. With my e-BIAB, I would have to either add another outlet plug or get another contactor to switch between the two controllers. Hope that makes sense

 

[augiedoggy]

I saw that one on eBay. I'm sure it would work very well but there is the extra board to mount to the heat sink and some extra wiring involved. If I had a traditional 3 tier system, this would work well since I would be powering different heating elements. With my e-BIAB, I would have to either add another outlet plug or get another contactor to switch between the two controllers. Hope that makes sense

I'm not sure if your talking about the one I linked but if you are I believe you are mistaken, theres no exrta board or wiring involved... theres just two hot power wires going in (main power cord) and two going out to the element... and the whole thing is already mounted to a heat sink with holes in it to mount on your control panel... You cant get any simpler than that?
(Well I guess a knob vs up/down buttons would be simpler)

 

[Brumateur]

Heres another option I found... Its available with the faceplate for the display panel too for less from other sellers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-100...153?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259565ce91

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-100...513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ec21b4e1

Be cautious. This regulator vorks correctly only on 50Hz .It useless in US or Canada since we have 60Hz mains.

 

[doug293cz]

I'm not sure if your talking about the one I linked but if you are I believe you are mistaken, theres no exrta board or wiring involved... theres just two hot power wires going in (main power cord) and two going out to the element... and the whole thing is already mounted to a heat sink with holes in it to mount on your control panel... You cant get any simpler than that?
(Well I guess a knob vs up/down buttons would be simpler)

Drewmedic's proposal switches the SSR control signals from two different controllers (a PID and the DSPR1) to a single SSR. No switching of power wires is needed. The device you are talking about would require switching of the power wires from two different SSR's to the heating element. That will require a DPDT contactor with guaranteed "break before make".

Brew on