New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

If it tastes right then the yeasties are done. I usually go two weeks just because of my schedule, but this yeast is a beast it gets to finish gravity pretty quick and seems to clean up quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[troy2000]

I just checked my SG on this - it's been 1.000 for five days. I brewed it 12 days ago and the OG was 1.057. It's tasting really good.....

Time to crash it? Or do you think it'll go lower? I've got it sitting at ~ 85f right now.

Also - 3 volumes of C02??? 5oz table sugar per five gallons? Think it's safe for 20oz bottles? I'm kegging half and bottling half.

Sounds ready to me.

5 oz of priming sugar is what I use for five gallon batches, and so far I haven't had bottle bombs or gushers. Then again, I usually leave my saisons in primary for four weeks before bottling. By then I would imagine I'm dealing with little or no residual CO2....

 

[atoughram]

By then I would imagine I'm dealing with little or no residual CO2....

There is quite a bit of residual CO2 in suspension - but I'd like to open up my fermentor for the next batch too... I think I'll give it a try and package it this weekend or early next week.

Thanks for the input!

 

[hopbrad]

gravity sample 1.003 after 8 days.
notes:
aroma has a touch of funk but is overpowered with the classic clove/banana/wheat beer thing.
taste is a little hot upfront. but zero spiciness. which i am happy about.
i get a bit of an apple flavor. its not as dry as 1.003 would suggest. kinda buttery, i used a little bit of wheat, so maybe that is it. some clove and banana but that was more in the aroma. mostly apple.
overall i think it is going to be a great beer in a month or 2.

are people pitching 2 packets or 1? i just realized that the suggested amount is 2 packets for a 5 gallon batch?
i brewed 4 gallons yesterday, OG 1.052. i do have another packet in the fridge if its necessary.

regardless, so far its a beast. I rehydrated, pitched at 80 and it went bonkers within 3 hours. ive been trying to cool it down to 70 so it doesnt blowout, tomorrow I plan to let it go back to room temp

 

[bd2xu]

Yeah give it at least a month from pitching to drinking, lots of cleaning up and mellowing left to do.

 

[williewtb]

How did the yeast do at 90F? Was it good? Did you pitch at 90F as well?

I've used the Belle Saison yeast three times, including once on a straightforward copy of Shipwrecked Saison. I just ordered a five-pack of it online, if that gives you any idea what I think of its performance....

The first time was basically with no temperature control; I was still putting gear together. It came out good. The second time was at low-to-medium temperatures; it came out good. The third time, I ramped up to 90 degrees F for a week, then backed off to 80. I'm expecting it to come out good....

 

[dobe12]

How did the yeast do at 90F? Was it good? Did you pitch at 90F as well?

My buddy has fermented with this yeast at 70F, 80F, and 90F. All of the beers have turned out great. As expected the higher temp fermentations led to a much stronger yeast flavors... spicy, fruity, etc. For this yeast my SOP is to pitch at 70F and hold for a 2-3 days at the most then raise the temp to around 80F or even higher. Great Saison strain. Second to only 3711 IMO.

 

[Crucial-BBQ]

Brewed this a few days after my farmhouse:
__________________________________

Batch size: 3 gallons.
Boil volume: 4 gallons.
One hour boil.

grain bill:

5lb American 2-row
1lb Crystal 20˚L
0.5lb Victory
0.5lb Naked Golden Oats


hop schedule:

0.5oz Chinook @ 14.2aa first wort hop

0.25 Amarillo @ 8.9aa 25 minutes
0.25 Cascade @ 7.2aa 25 minutes

0.25 Amarillo @ 8.9aa 20 minutes

0.25 Cascade @ 7.2aa 10 minutes
1oz irish moss 10 minutes
0.2oz crushed coriander 10 minutes

0.13oz Chinook @14.2aa 7 minutes
0.25 Amarillo @ 8.9aa 5 minutes
0.25 Cascade @ 7.2aa 5 minutes

0.13oz Chinook @ 14.2aa 3 minutes

Yeast: Belle Saison 11.5g dry pack

Target OG: 1.063 at 75% efficiency
Target FG: 1.016 (6.25% ABV)
Actual OG: 1.050 (after initial boil)
Actual FG: 1.002


________________________________

Ended up going slightly over one hour for the boil and had slightly less than three gallons in the kettle. I used whole hops without a bag...didn't account for the shear amount of hop "mess" in the trub...never used this amount of hops for a 3-gallon all-grain before. Took a reading, 1.050, and ended up with just under 2 gallons in the fermentor, so...

...not wanting anything less than 3 gallons I went back into the kettle and topped-off with 1 gallon of water. I was now in a bind in terms of ABV...so I dissolved a pound and a half of brown sugar (last minute decision) into roughly a half gallon of water. Took a hydrometer reading of...1.030(?).

Anyways...initial taste of bitter wort prior to fermentation had an immediate malt taste followed by an extreme, but not overpowering, bitterness. Had great aroma, too. Took a taste after one week while reading SG and bitterness mellowed a bit. Took another taste after three weeks and bitterness mellowed a bit, still. Both times had a great hop aroma. Bottled yesterday and placed one in the fridge to sample later in the evening. Poured the bottle into a tulip glass and...

...I took a taste at time of bottling and it was awesome. Had a great bitterness, hop aroma/taste, and even some dank from the yeast. After a few hours in the fridge there was zero hop aroma or taste. The aroma was reminiscent of sourdough bread dough and the taste was almost pure sour. I will try a warm bottle to see if there is any difference.

I left out some other stuff that went wrong during brew day (such as using an electronic thermometer that burned out half-way through brew day and I may have actually mashed at a temp above 156˚F partially through the mash yet ended with a temp of final temp of 145˚F at the end of the hour. So...I let it sit for another 20 minutes where the final temp read 143˚F. The thermometer was designed for BBQ/grill use, first time I used it for brewing. I don't think it was meant to be submerged into hot liquid for an extended period of time. I really don't trust the readings...but...), but this was definitely a learning experience.

 

[williewtb]

My buddy has fermented with this yeast at 70F, 80F, and 90F. All of the beers have turned out great. As expected the higher temp fermentations led to a much stronger yeast flavors... spicy, fruity, etc. For this yeast my SOP is to pitch at 70F and hold for a 2-3 days at the most then raise the temp to around 80F or even higher. Great Saison strain. Second to only 3711 IMO.

Great.. I have a current batch with 3724 almost done. Really keen to try this yeast out after reading through the whole thread.

 

[catdaddy66]

Just ordered my first pack of this yeast and want to try to make some bigger beers with more abv. I'll use it first on an IPA and see what happens. I'm getting to love experimenting with yeast! Now that I'm harvesting I can buy different strains and re-use for other beers later. Saving money and making beer... Mmmmmmmmmmm!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[sweetcell]

Just ordered my first pack of this yeast and want to try to make some bigger beers with more abv. I'll use it first on an IPA and see what happens.

let us know how it goes. not sure this is the best yeast for a belgo-IPA: it attenuate a lot (too much) so there is nothing to offset the bitterness (maybe aim for fewer IBUs that you might normally with an IPA), lots of phenolics that might not play nice with hops, etc. should be an interesting experiment.

 

[Osedax]

The highest I have bittered with this yeast is around 35 IBU. That was really pushing it. It has a nice assertive bitterness bordering on harsh.

You might be alright if you don't use simple sugars in the recipe and mash higher than you normally would for this style.

Either way, it sounds interesting. I would also like to know how this comes out.

 

[catdaddy66]

The highest I have bittered with this yeast is around 35 IBU. That was really pushing it. It has a nice assertive bitterness bordering on harsh.

You might be alright if you don't use simple sugars in the recipe and mash higher than you normally would for this style.

Either way, it sounds interesting. I would also like to know how this comes out.

It certainly makes sense to mash higher to prevent too low of a final gravity. Great tip, and I will be certain to announce my results. It may be a few weeks off as my next brew will be a California common.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[fearwig]

35 was pushing it for me, too, but it was dry. I don't think I'd make an IPA with this. Maybe a 50/50 blend of this and chico or nottingham or something similar, fermented cold. All bittering from later hops.

I think a Belgian IPA is better off resembling a hoppy tripel than a saison, though.

 

[doublebogey10]

I used Safbrew T-58 for my Belgian IPA and was really pleased with it. I'd echo the thought above that Belle Saison might not be the best for a Belgian IPA.

 

[highgravitybacon]

I used Safbrew T-58 for my Belgian IPA and was really pleased with it. I'd echo the thought above that Belle Saison might not be the best for a Belgian IPA.

I don't see the issue. If you bitter it to 70 IBU, treating it like a normal ale yeast that attenuated 70-75%, then that will be a horrid pile of ****. But if you take into account the finishing gravity, bitter accordingly you'll end up with a beer that tastes every bit as bitter with far less actual bittering in the kettle. The late additions need only minor modifications, if any at all so long as your bittering additions are appropriate.

 

[sweetcell]

I don't see the issue. If you bitter it to 70 IBU, treating it like a normal ale yeast that attenuated 70-75%, then that will be a horrid pile of ****. But if you take into account the finishing gravity, bitter accordingly you'll end up with a beer that tastes every bit as bitter with far less actual bittering in the kettle. The late additions need only minor modifications, if any at all so long as your bittering additions are appropriate.

there's more to a good IPA than bitterness vs. residual sweetness. take a beer, reduce it's residual sweetness by 50% and it's bitterness by 50%... you won't have the same beer.

plus, belgian yeasts kick off esters and phenols that don't all play nice with high amounts of hops. can become a jumbled mess. hence why IPAs use a generally neutral yeast, or at least something more neutral than a saison yeast.

 

[piteko]

I don't see the issue. If you bitter it to 70 IBU, treating it like a normal ale yeast that attenuated 70-75%, then that will be a horrid pile of ****. But if you take into account the finishing gravity, bitter accordingly you'll end up with a beer that tastes every bit as bitter with far less actual bittering in the kettle. The late additions need only minor modifications, if any at all so long as your bittering additions are appropriate.

Hi,
I agree with you that balancing this way would be better than using this yeast as it had a normal attenuation. Anyway, a belgian very dry beer that is balanced to be bitter isn't a belgian IPA, it's just a belgian bitter very dry beer
If you want to make a belgian IPA, you are simply aiming at something different, not just to something that has a similar ratio of sugars left / IBUs.

Cheers from Italy!
Piteko

 

[The_Glue]

Is cell count affects this yeast's ester production?

I brew 2.5gal batches but i like to pitch the whole packet into them.
Will the beer be too clean if i pitch the whole packet? (i plan to ferment it pretty warm, up to 90F)

 

[Osedax]

Just don't rehydrate your yeast. Pitching dry yeast directly onto the wort reportedly loses about 50% viability. Obviously, I recommend checking out a yeast calculator and then weighing your yeast but, the previous way will sort of work. Also, you don't have to use the entire packet.

And, yes, pitching rate will affect ester production. No, it will not be too clean if you over pitch.

 

[IslandLizard]

Just don't rehydrate your yeast. Pitching dry yeast directly onto the wort reportedly loses about 50% viability. Obviously, I recommend checking out a yeast calculator and then weighing your yeast but, the previous way will sort of work. Also, you don't have to use the entire packet.

And, yes, pitching rate will affect ester production. No, it will not be too clean if you over pitch.

Can you review that statement? It sounds counterproductive killing off half the yeast population intentionally.

You can re-hydrate half a sachet and pitch that. Then store the second half taped down, in a ziplock baggie, in the freezer and use within a few weeks or months. Just keep things well sanitized of course.

 

[sweetcell]

And, yes, pitching rate will affect ester production. No, it will not be too clean if you over pitch.

"too clean" is subjective. it will be cleaner, since many flavors are produced during the reproductive phase. pitching more yeast = less growth = less flavor compounds. how much less depends on how big the over-pitch is. even if your pitch twice as much as recommended, there will still be some growth.

Then store the second half taped down, in a ziplock baggie, in the freezer

freezer? i thought the fridge was best.

 

[fearwig]

freezer? i thought the fridge was best.

Dry yeast should be pretty resistant to ice damage and colder temps will keep metabolic activity down, so there's at least a good argument for the freezer. I imagine you could find people to come down on either side of that debate.

 

[MichaelBrock]

Dry yeast should be pretty resistant to ice damage and colder temps will keep metabolic activity down, so there's at least a good argument for the freezer. I imagine you could find people to come down on either side of that debate.

I ran across this a few days ago. Apparently it is okay and advantageous to freeze dry yeast: http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/freezing-dry-yeast


Edit: they do add the caveat that the package of yeast should be still vacuum sealed when freezing.

 

[fearwig]

I certainly do it with dry bread yeast and it lasts for years.

 

[Osedax]

It is counterproductive and a waste but, Glue said he pitches a full sachet each time. He wasn't asking about altering his pitch just what happens when he does pitch a full pack.

Should he change his pitch rate? Probably.

 

[IslandLizard]

[...] freezer? i thought the fridge was best.

For 30 years I've been storing dry yeast in the freezer, bread yeast and later beer yeasts. After moving, I found a sachet of US-05 in my freezer that was 3 years past it's use by date. For all security I made a starter with it. After proper re-hydration and a perhaps slow beginning, it blew out the top the next day. It smelled great, pitched it, and no problems whatsoever. I've use it 2x since.

Dry bread yeast can be stored in the freezer for years. $4.50 for a 2 pound pack at Sam's Club. Beats the paltry 1/4oz $$$ envelopes at the supermarket. Now you can finally put enough yeast in your pizza dough.

 

[troy2000]

For 30 years I've been storing dry yeast in the freezer, bread yeast and later beer yeasts. After moving, I found a sachet of US-05 in my freezer that was 3 years past it's use by date. For all security I made a starter with it. After proper re-hydration and a perhaps slow beginning, it blew out the top the next day. It smelled great, pitched it, and no problems whatsoever. I've use it 2x since.

Dry bread yeast can be stored in the freezer for years. $4.50 for a 2 pound pack at Sam's Club. Beats the paltry 1/4oz $$$ envelopes at the supermarket. Now you can finally put enough yeast in your pizza dough.

I routinely freeze my sourdough starters, sometimes for months at a time, when I'm not going to be home for a while. They fire right up when they're thawed.

As a matter of fact, some of the more interesting fireworks from my wife were set off when she found one of my starters in the freezer. Silly woman... just because it was in a Cool Whip tub, she assumed it was Cool Whip.

She moved it to the other side of the fridge to thaw, and a couple of days later found out it had blown its lid off and taken over the whole space. It still isn't safe to mention that episode, because she's convinced it was 100% my fault.

Sadly, it was a starter I'd been using for years (since long before we were married), and the best I've ever come up with.

 

[40watt]

Does anyone feel that this yeast produces a mouthfeel anywhere close to that of 3711?

 

[fearwig]

I haven't brewed with 3711 but I'd be surprised if the mouthfeel is directed by strain as much as by grain bill. This is a heavy attenuator, and saisons are usually very highly attenuated (that aspect of the style seems to be more strictly observed these days anyway), so mouthfeel is more about carbonation and dextrins.

My understanding is that belle saison attenuates more aggressively than 3711, though, so that may be a factor. If you make a very small beer with very low mash and too little carbonation with belle saison, you may find it's a little watery (carbonating properly helps a lot).