New BIAB questions

[toddo97]

I'm thinking about making the jump from partial mash to BIAB. I'm going to start with 3-3.5 gallon batches because:
1. I have an 8 gallon kettle and can use that
2. I like being able to do stovetop brewing
3. I like the idea of continuing wort chilling with an ice bath
4. Smaller batches=more batches
5. I've done about 10 extract/PM brews and am ready to see what the AG is all about

My questions are:
I like the idea of using my oven to help keep mash temps steady--for those that do that, do you set it at the lowest temp possible or set it for your target temp?

Are there better sites that NB or L2B for buying grain? How much do you buy at a time? How do you store your grain?

Thanks!

 

[Griffin495]

I turn my oven on to the lowest setting which for me is 170 and let it heat up while I'm getting my strike water up to temp. Once I mash in and give it a good stir, I turn off my oven, put the kettle it and then drape an old towel over it. I used to check it every 15 minutes after giving it a good stir, but that lets heat out. The last two batches, I just checked it at 15 and 45 and felt that was good enough, maybe overkill. Think I'll just check at 30 next time.

Will your 8 gallon kettle fit in your oven?

As far as grains, I find a recipe I want to try (usually here), scale it down to my batch size (2.5G) and just go to my local home brew store. As its a 30 minute drive for me, I usually get the stuff I need for two recipes at a time.

 

[toddo97]

I think the lowest setting on my oven is 150 so I'm guessing that'll be good to set it and keep it on for the whole mash? Very good question about the oven size--I'll have to do some measuring when I get home from work. My local HB store is only about 10 minutes away from work so it would be easy for me to pick up batch supplies during lunch. I'll have to see if their grinding is fine enough or if I'll need to start doing my own. I was thinking I would try to stock up since I figured larger buys would end up being cheaper, but I haven't really started looking at prices yet.

 

[soccerdad]

Oven is great if kettle fits. Stir good, put in hot oven, turn oven off, come back in an hour.

Do you have a place to buy 2 row in full sacks? If so you can get it for $1 A pound or less. Other grains will run $1.50 to $2.25 buying in 1 pound to 10 pound bags. I like More Beer since shipping is free with a $59 order. I can always get to $59.

 

[toddo97]

Oven is great if kettle fits. Stir good, put in hot oven, turn oven off, come back in an hour.

Do you have a place to buy 2 row in full sacks? If so you can get it for $1 A pound or less. Other grains will run $1.50 to $2.25 buying in 1 pound to 10 pound bags. I like More Beer since shipping is free with a $59 order. I can always get to $59.

I'll check that out--what do you store it in? If I'm force to store it in the garage, I'm worried about pests getting in there and stealing it.

 

[myndflyte]

I'll check that out--what do you store it in? If I'm force to store it in the garage, I'm worried about pests getting in there and stealing it.

If it's staying outside, you most definitely want solid, air-tight storage bins because mice will find it in no time.

 

[Leezer]

I like to get my grains from Ritebrew. Can get by pound or ounce and they will double mill. I try to order 2 batches at a time to save on shipping. Haven't looked into bulk buying, just buying as I go for now.

 

[soccerdad]

Leezer may have the best approach .. especially if you are not grinding your own

 

[Morrey]

If you buy 50# of grains in a sack you'll save over the long run. Two 5 gallon food grade buckets with lids will accommodate a sack of grain. I buy them at Lowes Home Imp and the lids keep out bugs and such.

If you are currently buying pre-milled grains, I suggest you don't buy in larger quantities as the grist stales. The best results are from grains that are milled close to the time you brew, so investing in a grain mill may be something to consider in the future.

 

[jtratcliff]

A Corona Mill in a bucket is a cheap grain mill option... Under $30.... Especially good for BIAB, since intact husks aren't as important...


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/90849/

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Can't go wrong with gamma seal lids and buckets
Gamma Seal Lid - Orange https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AYVRHCO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I buy 50# sacks of base malt and store them in gamma sealed buckets for months. You will need a mill. Corona is an option but Cereal Killer Mills come up for $80-90 all the time and they are waaaay better. I built a Corona in a bucket when I first started, but my Barley Crusher has been rocking for about 7 years now!

 

[soccerdad]

I don't know anything about Costway, but somebody posted this on FB

https://m.costway.com/manual-grinde...eo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=criteo

 

[toddo97]

Lots of great ideas--Thanks! I suppose it would be smart to do my first few batches with pre-ground grains to see if I want to stay with it. If I get hooked, I'll start keeping my eye open for a deal on a Cereal Killer so I can control the grind amount. I measured my kettle and it just fits in the oven so I should be all set for mash temps

 

[myndflyte]

As someone that used to do all grain the traditional way, I finally did my first BIAB batch last week. It was great not to mess with a vorlauf or sparging and anything like that. All in all, it took less time and I got a better efficiency than I ever have with the previous setup. I don't see a reason to not BIAB.

 

[toddo97]

Speaking of sparging, I was thinking about doing a dunk sparge to get a little extra juice. Is that something that's done much or do most people just give the bag a squeeze and start the boil?

 

[myndflyte]

Speaking of sparging, I was thinking about doing a dunk sparge to get a little extra juice. Is that something that's done much or do most people just give the bag a squeeze and start the boil?

It's really up to you. Some do, some don't. When I did it, I just used the whole water volume to do the mash, gave the bag a good squeeze and boiled.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Sometimes I do a cold pour over in my Papazian zapap but most of the time I'm looking for easy so I anticipate lower efficiency, bump up the grain a couple of pounds, squeeze my sack like it owes me money, and call it a good brew day [emoji16][emoji482]

 

[jtratcliff]

I dunk sparge, since my 10G kettle isn't quite big enough for what I want to brew.... I have a 2nd smaller kettle. I just raise the bag, squeeze, transfer bag to smaller kettle., soak for 10-15 minutes, then combine runnings...

Pour over is reported to work fine too...

 

[soccerdad]

In my experience, a dunk sparge adds to overall efficiency, but it's messy. The bag is dripping when you move it from kettle to sparge bucket, and dripping again when it comes out of the sparge bucket. Control that and it's all good.

 

[toddo97]

I think I'll try a dunk sparge (about 168 degrees?) for my first batch and see how that goes. I can use a sauce pan to catch the leaky bag when transfer to the bucket. I decided to go easy at first and bought a couple of 3 gallon kits from Northern Brewing to get my feet wet. After that I'll just do recipes.

 

[myndflyte]

Any temp for the sparge water is fine. Cold water has been shown to be just as effective as hot water. The only advantage of the hot water is that it'll boil quicker than cold water.

 

[Morrey]

Any temp for the sparge water is fine. Cold water has been shown to be just as effective as hot water. The only advantage of the hot water is that it'll boil quicker than cold water.

After my own set of tests, I confirmed what you reported to be accurate. I use a mesh grain basket and do pour over sparges to rinse the grain bed of any sugars remaining. I tested both room temp sparge water and 170F sparge water with no difference in the extraction rate based on the SG of the sparge runnings. Room temp sparge water cools the wort which has to be reheated to the boiling point, but this is easier to me than hassling with a separate kettle/pot on a burner to heat water.

 

[soccerdad]

And if you squeeze your sack, it is much easier to squeeze a cooler one.

 

[toddo97]

After my own set of tests, I confirmed what you reported to be accurate. I use a mesh grain basket and do pour over sparges to rinse the grain bed of any sugars remaining. I tested both room temp sparge water and 170F sparge water with no difference in the extraction rate based on the SG of the sparge runnings. Room temp sparge water cools the wort which has to be reheated to the boiling point, but this is easier to me than hassling with a separate kettle/pot on a burner to heat water.

Awesome--that's really good to hear. I'm looking forward to no burned fingers from hot bag squeezes! By any chance have you also done dunk vs pour sparging efficiency testing?

 

[Morrey]

Awesome--that's really good to hear. I'm looking forward to no burned fingers from hot bag squeezes! By any chance have you also done dunk vs pour sparging efficiency testing?

I have to be upfront and say I have not done dunk sparges, only rinse/pour overs. I use Arbor Fab mesh grain baskets w/press plates and lift this system with a double fulcrum pulley from a rafter. It would be awkward to move the lifted (heavy) basket to a different dunk kettle, so I have stayed with the rinse process. Smaller bags may be easier to shift to a dunk bath, so I'd definitely suggest looking at that process and not limiting your options.

 

[doug293cz]

The less retained wort you have in your grain prior to starting the sparge (whether dunk or pour over) the higher your overall efficiency will be. So, it you really want to maximize efficiency, squeezing before sparging will get you there. However, in the grand scheme of things having consistent and predictable efficiency is better than maximizing efficiency, so don't lose sleep over it.

Brew on

 

[wilserbrewer]

By any chance have you also done dunk vs pour sparging efficiency testing?

Just my opinion toddo, either a pour over or a dunk sparge will likely add a few points to efficiency, the difference between the two will depend on the individuals method and will likely be small / negligible.

The amounts of grain saved by increasing efficiency 3-4% is small, I suggest you experiment both full volume and sparging and see what you prefer.

3-4% of a 10 lb grain bill is only about 30 - 60 cents worth of grain depending on what you pay per lb.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Just to add a little to what @wilserbrewer said, it gets much more difficult to do any sparge with bigger grain bills. I did a 12 gallon batch and my numbers were low. Trying to maneuver that heavy, hot, dripping, bulging sack o grain to just squeeze it much less dunk it or pour over was a massive PITA! And once I did get it into my zapap the water/ wort didn't really want to run through, it spilled over the top when I tried to use another bucket as a press plate... PITA. Just toss a couple extra pounds of grain in and be done with it [emoji482]

 

[Cevan65]

I made a two layer blanket for my kettle out of this stuff below. No need to move my kettle with 3 1/2 gallons of liquid into my oven. I also made a three layer piece for the lid.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Reflectix-33-3-sq-ft-Reflective-Roll-Insulation-16-in-W-x-25-ft-L/1014123

 

[Leezer]

+1 to covering the kettle. At first I moved it into the oven, but after a couple times found that moving around a large, heavy kettle full of hot liquid was difficult, or in some cases just not possible for me to do. I use a heavy blanket and 2 thick beach towels, but like the idea of the reflectix. I also just cover and leave it alone for the hour mash. I only lose a few degrees with this method.

 

[toddo97]

I figure that a 3 -3 1/2 gallon batch will be my max for doing indoor BIAB/oven warming. If I want to start doing 5+ batches, I'll need to take it in the garage after I get a bigger kettle and try insulating it. I'm wondering if the extra effort of not brewing inside, having to use an immersion chiller (or something similar), and much more difficulty holding temps and dealing with a heavier grain bag will be worth it just to get a couple of more gallons of beer. I suppose I'll decide after I've tried a few smaller batches

 

[r4dyce]

I do 3 gallon biab batches mostly nowadays. I love being able to do everything inside and in my kitchen. It just fits my consumption style too.
I don't specifically make any effort to sparge separately. When it's done I just dunk the bag up an down like a tea bag and then I set a metal rack (I think it was an old rack from a roasting pan) across the top of my pot and just set the bag on top as I put the flame on for boil. A lot of liquid runs out and then just give it one or two squeezes, largely just so it doesn't drip all over when I move it. I regularly hit 80-83% this way and that's fine by me.
For mash , I tried putting it in the oven but I couldn't get the temp low enough, even with the oven off my mash ended up actually raising a few degrees by the end. Instead I've invested in some high tech insulation: an old hoodie and a blanket. This works super well and usually the mash stays perfect or loses 1-2 degrees at most without any additional heat.
Anyway, just wanted to share me experience. BIAB if definitely my favorite method.
Happy brewing!

 

[toddo97]

I checked my oven and the minimum temp setting is 170. Maybe I'll try setting it to that and turning it off--then start heating my water to hopefully give it time to drop 10-20 degrees while I stir in the grains. I really like the idea of using my oven rather than wrapping my kettle in something and then doing something really stupid like starting a fire! 80%+ would be great--do you grind your own grain?